Upgrading in 2025

[Oliver21]

Hi I am finally upgrading my PC from an ancient system using XP.

I use Reaper along with Gigasampler but am looking forward to the many new and wonderful plugins that are avaiable.

My current system has been OK up until very recently and it's only because I've experienced the Blue Screen Of Death (again) I am going down this route.

What I would like from my new system would be being able to handle:

more than the 120 audio tracks my old system could handle

VST instruments and plugins which to be fair my old system struggled to produce any without slowing right down.

I'm not shy of spending a bit of money here (>£2K) for the right system and I wanted to find out what people thought was a good place to go and a good system to get.

My old PC was from 2006 and had a 1ghz processor and the limited memory that XP allowed.

Also what is the thinking about using a TV for a monitor. Id like to use 48" to 55" but cant find many monitors that size but TVs that size are ubiquitous. It used to be that TVs were a bit flaky for this purpose. May be new TVs are better?

Apologies in advance for my lack of knowledge and layman's terminology.

Many thanks for any input.

[Luke W]

I'm not shy of spending a bit of money here (>£2K) for the right system and I wanted to find out what people thought was a good place to go and a good system to get.

I'd recommend having a chat with Scan. Let them know what you're looking to do and they'll be able to suggest a build that makes sure your money goes into all the right places. I've been running one of their 3XS systems in my studio rig for about 4 years now and it's been great.

Also what is the thinking about using a TV for a monitor. Id like to use 48" to 55" but cant find many monitors that size but TVs that size are ubiquitous. It used to be that TVs were a bit flaky for this purpose. May be new TVs are better?

I'm using a TV as a second screen without any issues. Generally speaking, response time and input latency are higher with TVs than monitors, but I can't say it's ever bothered me enough to become an issue for DAW work.

[Aled Hughes]

I'm not shy of spending a bit of money here (>£2K) for the right system and I wanted to find out what people thought was a good place to go and a good system to get.

I'd recommend having a chat with Scan. Let them know what you're looking to do and they'll be able to suggest a build that makes sure your money goes into all the right places. I've been running one of their 3XS systems in my studio rig for about 4 years now and it's been great.

Also what is the thinking about using a TV for a monitor. Id like to use 48" to 55" but cant find many monitors that size but TVs that size are ubiquitous. It used to be that TVs were a bit flaky for this purpose. May be new TVs are better?

I'm using a TV as a second screen without any issues. Generally speaking, response time and input latency are higher with TVs than monitors, but I can't say it's ever bothered me enough to become an issue for DAW work.

Good advice.

I bought a new desktop a year or two ago from Scan and it’s been superb.

I also use a big TV as a second screen over HDMI and it works fine for me. It’s usually used for video playback for TV dubbing etc, and I haven’t had any issues.

[The Elf]

I'd hold back most of that 2K and go for something relatively modest by modern standards.

No need to go for new either, IMHO. Anything with an i5 or i7 processor, 16GB of RAM and 1TB hard drive space would be a good starting point. I like to have at least two drives to split up the system files from bulky sample libraries, for instance.

And rather than one huge monitor, maybe worth considering multiple smaller monitors? I run my (Cubase) Arrangement page on one, and the mixer on the other. I find it more convenient to maximise windows to each monitor than to have to partition room for them on one screen.

[Wonks]

No need to go for new either, IMHO. Anything with an i5 or i7 processor..

Needs qualifying! The i5 and i7 processors have been out since 2009 and we are now on the 14th gen chips. So you need to have a recent version at least, say Gen 12 and later to avoid being disappointed.

But you seem to be like me, and buy high-spec machines and run them for a long time. So to me, a good spec PC is an investment. A newer spec PC will also run the latest & fastest RAM to get the most out of the processor.

At some point you are going to get enough hardware failures where you’ll need to get a new PC again. Buying say a 3 year old machine means you are already that much closer to another replacement. My music PC was 10 years old when it died. But sometimes it’s not about the cost, but the hassle of getting things transferred to a new PC (and often a new operating system) can be quite daunting as well. So keeping that hassle to a minimum can be worth the extra cost.

My current music PC is a year-old Scan 3XS system that is near-silent (very faint background noise), has 3 SSDs (OS, projects and samples) and runs everything I want it to.

[Pete Kaine]

Needs qualifying! The i5 and i7 processors have been out since 2009 and we are now on the 14th gen chips. So you need to have a recent version at least, say Gen 12 and later to avoid being disappointed.

You missed one out Wonks, the 15th Gen launched last month!

Current musings on such things.
https://www.scanproaudio.info/2024/11/2 ... d-9800x3d/

I'm also in the single big screen camp here these days, although given I mostly run Ableton at home, it's really easy to run both applications panels in a split screen style configuration (trackview on the left, mixer view on the right). Just like I had two seperate monitors, but without the screen bezel getting in the way. Y.M.M.V depending on DAW package.

[amanise]

No need to go for new either...

...
My current music PC is a year-old Scan 3XS system that is near-silent (very faint background noise), has 3 SSDs (OS, projects and samples) and runs everything I want it to.

Now then! I've been looking at those and wondering if anyone out there has actually gone for one for a while now... They're the ones marketed as being specialist music production machines aren't they?

My DAW drops of the Microsoft supported list next October - so I'd be really interested to hear more about your experiences with this machine - either here or in some other post or PM - whatever.

[Wonks]

It’s been absolutely fine. Looking back I think I should have gone for the silent fan option (the standard one is very quiet indeed but you can just hear it through an SDC) and not gone for a Thunderbolt interface and kept to a USB3-C one, but that’s about it.

With iLocks and various other connections I ended up adding an extra USB3 card in myself.

It works fine driving two screens with the standard onboard graphics.

[James Perrett]

Also what is the thinking about using a TV for a monitor. Id like to use 48" to 55" but cant find many monitors that size but TVs that size are ubiquitous. It used to be that TVs were a bit flaky for this purpose. May be new TVs are better?

My lad uses a TV for a monitor. Once we worked out how to turn off all the image enhancement features it worked fine and looks little different to his other monitors.

[ef37a]

On the TV as a monitor front? I have been using a rag bag of various TVs with desktops and laptops for years. You might have to tweak the screen geometry to make certain things at the top and bottom visible.
One thing to be aware of is that if the PC has a crash you can find the TV will not work at some low/odd resolution scan rate so make sure you always have a bog standard VGA monitor around so you can rescue the machine.

Dave.

[The Elf]

No need to go for new either, IMHO. Anything with an i5 or i7 processor..

Needs qualifying! The i5 and i7 processors have been out since 2009 and we are now on the 14th gen chips. So you need to have a recent version at least, say Gen 12 and later to avoid being disappointed.

OK - anything post 2020!!

[OneWorld]

I upgraded this year after having my replacement new computer sat under the desk for almost a year. having lived in denial, couldn't face the thought of upgrading to Win11, going from Cubase 10 to Cubase 13 and the transition away from the dongle, and a host of other issues involved in trading up. But the speed of the new computer really is remarkable, it boots in less time than it takes me to reach for my cuppa and dunk a biscuit, samples load in a flash

I too use a 40" HDTV along a high spec 4K Phillips monitor and the difference is hardly noticeable

[Oliver21]

Thanks for all the input everyone.

Been to the Scan website and a few more questions:

I have read the test data between the various chips but I'd be lying if I said that I fully understood it. Broadly is there much to choose between AMD and Intel? When I bought my last PC (which isn't the PC I've been using - that one is from 2007) it had an an AMD Athlon CPU but I always felt that people thought AMD was the "poor relation" to Intel. Is this not the case anymore?

What are the pros and cons of tower cases over rackmount cases other than the obvious ergonomics?
Is one quieter/more robust/more efficient than the other?

Is there anything inherently favourable about having data and programs on separate discs? I currently have data and programs all on the one disk and back it up to one (and in future intend to back up to more than one) other disk(s). If I had these on separate disks I imagine backing up would get terribly complicated.

[ef37a]

Oliver, while the PC gurus are having their teas! Go back some years in SoS and you will find PC talk is all about "partitions". The idea was that you had a partition for the OS and, IIRC the DAW then one for the samples and another perhaps to store your work. Some folks had "dual boot" XP and W7 on different partitions. I tried it once...Cabbage.
That idea seems to have fallen out of favour, perhaps because fast, cheap external storage, USB 3.0 and better came about?

My son is stuck with a small SSD of 240G so he has a 1TB external spinner more or less permanently attached and has "told" Samplitude to save his work there.
I don't really know but I think you can instruct the PC to backup whatever, wherever you want pretty automatically these days?

Dave.

[alexis]

Also, from what I've read (caveat lector!) few if any of the DAW companies (Cubase, etc.) have updated their programs to be Snapdragon ARM compatible, and it's possible/likely that a majority of computers sold in the future will have that chip (already, it's hard/impossible to buy a Microsoft Surface laptop now without W11 and Snapdragon installed).

I'm going to hang on a little bit longer (6 months?) to my c. 2014 most excellent custom built ADK music computer (specs below, ouch!), even though I'm having to render/disable more and more tracks as the software gets more demanding over time, then I'll have a look around to see what the lay of the land is.

[ef37a]

Also, from what I've read (caveat lector!) few if any of the DAW companies (Cubase, etc.) have updated their programs to be Snapdragon ARM compatible, and it's possible/likely that a majority of computers sold in the future will have that chip (already, it's hard/impossible to buy a Microsoft Surface laptop now without W11 and Snapdragon installed).

I'm going to hang on a little bit longer (6 months?) to my c. 2014 most excellent custom built ADK music computer (specs below, ouch!), even though I'm having to render/disable more and more tracks as the software gets more demanding over time, then I'll have a look around to see what the lay of the land is.

What pray is the problem with Snapdragon? I shall be staring down the barrel of Widow 11 next year!

Dave.

[Wonks]

I have read the test data between the various chips but I'd be lying if I said that I fully understood it. Broadly is there much to choose between AMD and Intel? When I bought my last PC (which isn't the PC I've been using - that one is from 2007) it had an an AMD Athlon CPU but I always felt that people thought AMD was the "poor relation" to Intel. Is this not the case anymore?

Depending on what's just been announced recently, they seem to leapfrog each other in the "most power for your money" stakes. Any fairly high-end chip will keep you happy for quite a few years. If you want to support older hardware e.g. use a Firewire card for an older interface, then Intel is probably the better bet.

For a very quiet/silent PC, the more efficient the CPU and the less power consumption it has, the less need for cooling, and so the quieter the build can be.

What are the pros and cons of tower cases over rackmount cases other than the obvious ergonomics?
Is one quieter/more robust/more efficient than the other?

No inherent real difference, it all depends on the components you fit, such as silent fans, as to how quiet they are. SSDs make no noise, so there's no need for cases to enclose hard drives, so noise is mainly down to CPU and case cooling fans. Edit: I forgot the PSU cooling fan - so a silent PSU is also desirable if the PC is in the recording space.

If you've got a rack-mounted audio interface and/or headphone amp, then having short USB (etc.) leads to it is a benefit, but you then need longer keyboard and mouse leads (if not wireless). Likewise, a desktop interface is that bit easier to connect to a desktop PC.
Standard computer cases themselves have grown over the years, so a desktop will take up a fair bit more space that an 10 year-old equivalent. Things like CD/DVD/BluRay drives aren't standard any longer, so you'll find an external USB connected drive handy, which can often be easier to place on the top of a desktop case when you need it.

Is there anything inherently favourable about having data and programs on separate discs? I currently have data and programs all on the one disk and back it up to one (and in future intend to back up to more than one) other disk(s). If I had these on separate disks I imagine backing up would get terribly complicated.

It used to be a benefit with IDE drives when the interface was a data bottleneck, but these days with SSDs, that really isn't an issue, so there isn't any drawback to having the data all on one physical drive. But it's normally your project and sample space that takes up a lot of space and where you might want to expand your storage requirements fairly regularly. Project and sample files can simply be copied across to a bigger drive, whereas program files drives either need to be cloned, or everything reinstalled. Cloning isn't a big issue these days, but it is slightly more involved than simply copying the contents of one drive to another (and then renaming the new drive after removing the old one).

[The Elf]

Is there anything inherently favourable about having data and programs on separate discs? I currently have data and programs all on the one disk and back it up to one (and in future intend to back up to more than one) other disk(s). If I had these on separate disks I imagine backing up would get terribly complicated.

Quite the reverse.

Data backup is just about file copying, while a system drive needs image copying software to create a copy of the drive.

By keeping them separate it simplifies these two procedures, and and avoids unhelpful duplication.

[Aled Hughes]

Also, from what I've read (caveat lector!) few if any of the DAW companies (Cubase, etc.) have updated their programs to be Snapdragon ARM compatible, and it's possible/likely that a majority of computers sold in the future will have that chip (already, it's hard/impossible to buy a Microsoft Surface laptop now without W11 and Snapdragon installed).

I'm going to hang on a little bit longer (6 months?) to my c. 2014 most excellent custom built ADK music computer (specs below, ouch!), even though I'm having to render/disable more and more tracks as the software gets more demanding over time, then I'll have a look around to see what the lay of the land is.

What pray is the problem with Snapdragon? I shall be staring down the barrel of Widow 11 next year!

Dave.

At the moment most DAWs ar not written natively for ARM processors like Snapdragon. At the moment, I think Cubase, Reaper and Bitwig are there/getting there. The rest will follow if it takes off, I guess.

Also, at the moment a lot of plugins aren’t compiled for ARM.

Same goes for ASIO drivers for interfaces, though it seems Microsoft will be incorporating their own ASIO driver soon, which is promising, and would be closer to how Apple’s Core Audio drivers work with interfaces without having to install anything extra. We could see this incorporated into the ‘normal’ Windows too, I guess.

I had a browse on the RME forum to see where they stood on developing ASIO drivers for ARM chips, and it didn’t seem like they were at all bothered (the few posts I saw an RME staff were quite dismissive of the whole thing)

It could be interesting- I’ll be looking to upgrade my Surface Pro some time in the next year or so. If Reaper runs smoothly on ARM i may well be tempted, especially if my RME, Sound Devices and Soundcraft interfaces will run without problem (the promised Windows ASIO driver may well be an upgrade on the Soundcraft drivers…)

[alexis]

Also, from what I've read (caveat lector!) few if any of the DAW companies (Cubase, etc.) have updated their programs to be Snapdragon ARM compatible, and it's possible/likely that a majority of computers sold in the future will have that chip (already, it's hard/impossible to buy a Microsoft Surface laptop now without W11 and Snapdragon installed).

I'm going to hang on a little bit longer (6 months?) to my c. 2014 most excellent custom built ADK music computer (specs below, ouch!), even though I'm having to render/disable more and more tracks as the software gets more demanding over time, then I'll have a look around to see what the lay of the land is.

What pray is the problem with Snapdragon? I shall be staring down the barrel of Widow 11 next year!

Dave.

I'm not aware of any problems per se, beyond that Cubase (and further, maybe few/none of the other major DAW players?) have rewritten their code to accommodate it. I'm not sure about plug ins and VST instruments either, but I'm going to sit out maybe 6 months or so and see where things are then.

If it looks to me then like Snapdragon ARM will be turn out to be ubiquitous or almost so, and Cubase and the supporting apps have been rewritten to accommodate, I'll probably go that route, just so as not to wonder in 10 years why I didn't keep current when I could.

[James Perrett]

Also, from what I've read (caveat lector!) few if any of the DAW companies (Cubase, etc.) have updated their programs to be Snapdragon ARM compatible,

Oliver is a Reaper user - they've had ARM versions for years on Mac and Linux so I see no reason why the relatively recent Windows ARM version would have any issues. Reaper tends to keep up with technology better than most of the alternatives while still retaining compatibility with systems that go back further than most of the alternatives (who else still supports Windows XP?).

I'm also another one that favours keeping the system and data drives separate. That way I can fill up the data drive without any fear of bringing the system to a halt by running out of space on the system drive. SSDs are really cheap now - especially as you don't necessarily need the most expensive high performance drive for the data drive.

[alexis]

Also, from what I've read (caveat lector!) few if any of the DAW companies (Cubase, etc.) have updated their programs to be Snapdragon ARM compatible,

... Reaper ... - they've had ARM versions for years on Mac and Linux so I see no reason why the relatively recent Windows ARM version would have any issues. ...

Thanks for the update, James!

Here's hoping Cubase jumps on board with both feet soon (Currently they have not-fully-functional "Preview" versions for Windows: https://www.soundonsound.com/news/stein ... m-previews)!

[tea for two]

Thanks for all the input everyone.

Broadly is there much to choose between AMD and Intel? When I bought my last PC (which isn't the PC I've been using - that one is from 2007) it had an an AMD Athlon CPU but I always felt that people thought AMD was the "poor relation" to Intel. Is this not the case anymore?

For a number of years now AMD Ryzen and Intel have swapped places back and forth both vying to be top of the heap. Apparently latest amazon sales chart top10 cpu desktop sales all AMD Ryzen, don't know what this says. I had an Anthlon and Sempron back in the day lol.

Whether efficiency in a cpu : drawing lower wattage, running cooler, thereby lower electricity bills is important to you.
It's important for me. For this reason AMD Ryzen 7xxx 9xxx series any day of the week for me, twice on Sundays lol based on reliable measurements, Intel 13th 14th gen the worst for efficiency. 15th gen we have to see.
Especially in ECO mode AMD Ryzen which is an official AMD designation when using AMD official software lowers their 7xxx 9xxxx series wattage to 65W or 105W depending on the model whilst users report having approx 7%-10% performance difference from being run full throttle which when required is done using official AMD software.

What are the pros and cons of tower cases over rackmount cases other than the obvious ergonomics?
Is one quieter/more robust/more efficient than the other?

Tower cases as we know can be any size extendedAtx to microAtx, miniItx. Their size even if extra large doesn't always indicate better air flow thermals. A smaller tower case can have better design for air flow thermals.
Same for rackmount.

Been to the Scan website

Neat thing about Scan they list all the components used for AMD, Intel audio computers. This way we can look them up for air flow, efficiency, ports, quietness, speed of components, thermals.

[ef37a]

Now I am sure I going to be teaching several grannies to suck multiple eggs but,
I have just installed Samplitude ProX6 on my AMD desktop and it was a breeze (one slight ricket*) because the PC is connected to my router via an Ethernet cable giving over 300M download speed. At least three times faster than my best laptop with a new wi fi dongle. If possible I suggest those here upgrading and installing do the same?

I bought a one pound RJ45 2mtr cable from a Rock Bottom shop (I have sheds of CAT5e cable and an AMP tool, but have run out of plugs) but it seems good enough.

*I can't get 'at'em, MAGIX that is to give me a second activation code. They have sent me a 30 day demo extension code instead. ALWAYS a hassle dealing with "DAW people" I find.

Dave.

[adrian_k]

Now I am sure I going to be teaching several grannies to suck multiple eggs but,
I have just installed Samplitude ProX6 on my AMD desktop and it was a breeze (one slight ricket*) because the PC is connected to my router via an Ethernet cable giving over 300M download speed. At least three times faster than my best laptop with a new wi fi dongle. If possible I suggest those here upgrading and installing do the same?

...
Dave.

Showoff!

I asked my granny, and she said that it would make no difference to me because my speed is limited by the 1,500 yards of ancient copper from the cabinet.