Any Fractal FM9 users on here?

[ceramicx]

If so I have a question I can't find the answer to. Very simple but really annoying - how can I navigate the presets on the device (not with the software hooked up) so that I could jump from say, 451 to 002? I am sure I am being a bit thick here but you'd think you could just punch the number in somewhere and go straight to it but you can't.

Cheers.

[The Elf]

I know nothing of the Fractal boxes, but... for quick access to presets that are widely apart you may need to adopt an external device that is capable of sending MIDI bank/program change messages.

[ceramicx]

I know nothing of the Fractal boxes, but... for quick access to presets that are widely apart you may need to adopt an external device that is capable of sending MIDI bank/program change messages.

Hi thanks. Yeah, I can do it externally but I just wanted to type in the number i want on the deice itself like in the old days of devices such as drum machines. Seems really daft not being able to do that.

[Wonks]

Is this something you want to do at random, or as part of a song performance? Setting up songs with the FX you want, and then constructing a set list, to make it easy to step between songs, would seen the normal way to go.

But if you are just trying out presets, then either using the control knobs and scrolling through the preset lists (not so handy as it’s a foot pedal) or as The Elf says, get an external MIDI switching pedal. However, MIDI switchers usually work on bank and preset within bank (program change) number, which need to be mapped to the sequential program number of the preset in the unit. So preset 302 in the Fractal might be bank 16 preset 14 using the MIDI switcher.

There are other ways around it using a MIDI switcher, but all involve a level of programming in one or both of the units.

The manual doesn’t give any indication there’s a direct method of entering a preset number in directly as there’s no appropriate number pad.

[ceramicx]

Is this something you want to do at random, or as part of a song performance? Setting up songs with the FX you want, and then constructing a set list, to make it easy to step between songs, would seen the normal way to go.

But if you are just trying out presets, then either using the control knobs and scrolling through the preset lists (not so handy as it’s a foot pedal) or as The Elf says, get an external MIDI switching pedal. However, MIDI switchers usually work on bank and preset within bank (program change) number, which need to be mapped to the sequential program number of the preset in the unit. So preset 302 in the Fractal might be bank 16 preset 14 using the MIDI switcher.

There are other ways around it using a MIDI switcher, but all involve a level of programming in one or both of the units.

The manual doesn’t give any indication there’s a direct method of entering a preset number in directly as there’s no appropriate number pad.

Hello Mr.Wonks.

Yes, I just want to do it willy nillilly. For example, I took it round to a Pal's yesterday and was demonstrating some presets i.e. my 'The Edge' presets at 430-450 but then to go back to factory No.001 I have to turn the rotating dial for about 5 minutes. Very tiring at my age. On such a fantastic item it just seems silly not to be able to punch in a number to goto where I want and I don't want to be adding anything external. If I hook it up to my laptop with the software then no probs.

Of course, I should be sensible about this and go through them and make a fave list of presets and put them all next to each other and then I'm sorted - or do a set list as suggested by you chaps. But the OCD side of me is not at all happy at not being able to instantly go from preset 449 to 039

Have to say though, this is an amazing product. Managed to download a great sounding Gilmour 'Comfortably Numb' preset so having a lot of fun with that. Also, got a great 'Shine On' preset too. Need to get some Clapton-esque sounds nailed now as I'm doing some Cream tribute rehearsal things with some chums.

[Wonks]

I’ve got a Fender Tone Master Pro and it’s a similar process with that as well. Though you can step up in banks using footswitches, there’s still a lot of presses to go from preset 1 to say preset 204. Or a lot of selection wheel turning.

Mitigated slightly by Fender providing only around 130 factory presets (you can have far too many factory presets IMO), so it doesn’t take too long to scroll through all the factory banks.

[Music Wolf]

Having had a quick glance at the manual, I think that the FM9 is very similar to my Helix in that each of the footswitches can be asigned to switch presets, scenes, turn blocks on and off etc.

This video, taken from the FM9 website, demonstrates this (although the switching in the video is being done from the Editor screen).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Zyb10i1ET0&t=285s

[The Elf]

The only other thing I can suggest might be a phone/pad app, or even a Stream Deck. Any of these solutions might add complexity with which you're not comfortable, but they should do the job.

Personally I use MIDI Designer Pro for such things. I rustled up this example in couple of minutes:


Happy to share it as an example.

[Wonks]

But you still can’t type in ‘204’ and go to that preset. You could probably write something that converted a number into bank & program info, but it’s all getting reasonably complicated.

[The Elf]

But you still can’t type in ‘204’ and go to that preset.

No you couldn't, but it's a close as you're going to get in this generic form. I was just trying to show an example, not solve the whole requirement. Arguably this is simpler than typing '204' (two button presses, rather than 3 - and 'enter'), depending on how a device numbers its patches - the Helix exposes bank and patch numbers, but the Fractal? I've no idea.

It would be simple to create custom patch-named buttons that would deliver both bank and program messages in one press - something I do in my own rig. But whether the OP wants to go down this route is up to him/her.

[Wonks]

It’s just standard sequential decimal patch numbering. Fractal and Tone Master Pro.

[The Elf]

It’s just standard sequential decimal patch numbering. Fractal and Tone Master Pro.

But in MIDI you can't go above 127 in program number, so some form of bank switching must be going on.

[Wonks]

It’s simply internal mapping, dear boy, simply mapping.

[Wonks]

Pages 124/125 of the FM9 user manual list the bank+program number combinations to select the relevant internal preset number.

https://www.fractalaudio.com/downloads/ ... Manual.pdf

[The Elf]

Just as I said then! It would be simple to create a button labelled '204' and have it send Bank 1, Program 76. Or press buttons '1' and '76' on the generic example Layout I gave.

And, as I said, it's up to the OP whether they want to go down this route. If they do I'm happy to help.

[Wonks]

If you’ve got to scroll through a list of numbers to get to the value you want, then you’re right back to the original problem of having to scroll through the program numbers on the FX9 rather than being able to type in “2, 0, 4, Enter”.

You need a keypad app where you can type in “2, 0, 4, Enter” and the app converts that into an appropriate two-part MIDI message. It’s not hard to code, just needs someone to write it!

[The Elf]

No no no! You must be misunderstanding the Layout example I've shown. My layout doesn't require any scrolling through numbers!

In your 204 example you would press '1 on the left panel and '76' on the right panel... bang! Done! Two button presses.

And if you created a bank/prog button dedicated to '204' - one button press!

[Wonks]

But then you’ve got to memorise the equivalent bank/program numbers in your head, which is frankly bonkers.

Having a “0-9 + Enter” touch screen virtual keypad that does all the work for you is far better for a user.

[The Elf]

But then you’ve got to memorise the equivalent bank/program numbers in your head, which is frankly bonkers.

That's the way Fractal chose to implement it. I'd say that's the bonkers bit.

Having a “0-9 + Enter” touch screen virtual keypad that does all the work for you is far better for a user.

As I said, you could create one button called '204' that sends both bank and prog - one button press. How could it be simpler than that? And no programmer needed to be hired to build it.

At a rough guess I could probably get 400 of these on one Layout - one button access to 400 patches. Enough for ya?

Happy to provide an example, if required - though I baulk at creating all 400!

[Wonks]

But then you’ve got to memorise the equivalent bank/program numbers in your head, which is frankly bonkers.

That's the way Fractal chose to implement it. I'd say that's the bonkers bit.

Why is it bonkers? Whilst you can easily implement programmed MIDI changes of patches if you so wish to do so live, it's not the sort of thing you major on when setting it up. But as they've got a touch screen on the unit, having a virtual keypad appear on the screen when selecting a preset number seems like a big missed opportunity.

[The Elf]

But then you’ve got to memorise the equivalent bank/program numbers in your head, which is frankly bonkers.

That's the way Fractal chose to implement it. I'd say that's the bonkers bit.

Why is it bonkers?

Because if they are going to provide external MIDI bank and program facilities it would be better (or at least a good option) to number their patches in banks of 128 (maybe banks of 100, if you want to keep it even simpler). It's Fractal's 'mapping' that's creating the need to mentally juggle patch 204 to Bank 1/Program 76.

Line 6 realised this, which is why their Helix can be set into 0-127 display mode, rather than the silly 01A-32D (though no doubt useful to non-MIDI-ists) to which it otherwise defaults.

[Arpangel]

I thought about getting some Fractal FX, but after reading this thread, no thanks! looks horrendously complex.

[The Elf]

We're discussing external MIDI control - not the box itself. What are you thinking is complex?

[arkieboy]

I thought about getting some Fractal FX, but after reading this thread, no thanks! looks horrendously complex.

Don't mind them, they're off on one!!!

Lots of modern synths also have more than 128 programs and you'll need to send additional bytes if you want to pick them up by midi.

OR when you scroll through the presets looking for the ones you like, you can copy them into an easily accessible bank/user memory so they're easy to find (and tweakable). Like we used to do with memory cards in the 80s and 90s.

The Fractal FX is supposed to be quite good, but unless they've made some significant advances in the last couple of years, received wisdom is Line6 are better at FX and Fractal are better at amp modelling. So consider picking up a HX Effects second hand for £300.

It won't solve your 'god - how many presets' problem, there are plenty in the HX FX, but you'll have money left in your bank account!!!

(or just programme them from scratch. FFS we're just talking discrete pedals with half a dozen parameters each - even with Fractal levels of tweak-ability ...

I mean, an electric mistress emulation has as many important parameters as the original pedal. How hard can that be?)

[The Elf]

^ Wot 'e said.

I'm sure the Fractal stuff is very good, but I'd take my Helix and HX Stomp XL in preference for keyboards.

But this doesn't help the OP, so let's not drift even further away...