Am I kidding myself trying to get classical recording work?

[SoundOutWest]

I need a reality check from the veterans here.

I started my location recording business this at the start of this year. I focus on classical and choral music as I have 10 years composing experience and have done well in that area. I've learnt a lot but really I've only had about 4 gigs. I got good feedback from all of them but only 1 led to further work; this was for recording a music school's very amateur recitals.

My goal is not to do this full time - I has a good job in healthcare - but rather to make enough to money to help fund my other music projects whilst working with other good musicians.

So business is slow and whilst there are a ton of ensembles here worth recording, very few have the money or desire to record. There's still plenty of artists I haven't connected with yet but I'm becoming pessimistic. The fact remains that classical recording itself makes no money so any services I provide are for marketing or vanity.

I've tried re-framing my services as being more videography and media oriented. I've upskilled my camera abilities and photograph shows whilst I record them. This has helped a teeny bit.

I'm worried that my location is the issue. I live in Australia and honestly, musicians here are unambitious, audiences small and the standards are low. I get envious of my European and US colleagues who seem to be surrounded with music. Here, live music is *somewhat* alive but the arts industry is so bad that the government has had to launch an inquiry into it.

Anyway my actual questions are:
- Is it normal for business to be so slow?
- Is there any strategy in finding people who are actually keen to record? I'm just sending email after email hoping the best.
- Is focusing on classical a lost cause? Do I have to get involved with bands?
- How can I approach groups who have talent but little disposable income and no strict reason to have high-quality video/recording? Can they be "persuaded" at all?
- Is there anything else I should know?

[tacitus]

I’ve no illusions about this. I’ll record anything live and (essentially) acoustic; I might even have a CD project coming up. But I’m retired and doing it for pleasure. If I get the chance to be paid something, I’ll take it, and I’m not going round doing for free what professionals ought to be paid for. At the end of the day, there’ll be a few recordings that probably wouldn’t have happened otherwise, and I’ll have the satisfaction of having done them.

A couple of years ago I’d have said that the equipment for this kind of work is readily affordable for most of us, but the cost of living crisis has modified my views to some extent. However, as with playing music, you do it because you have a passion for it. Well, I do, at least.

[shufflebeat]

I need a reality check…

The fact remains that classical recording itself makes no money so any services I provide are for promotion and love.

Welcome to the world of folk music.

…I mean classical.

[James Perrett]

I'm just sending email after email hoping the best.

If the classical world is anything like the music worlds that I inhabit then you have to get out and meet people. Prospective clients like to put a face to a name and would rather deal with people that they have met (and liked) in person.

I would also offer to do one or two jobs for free - but be picky about who you do them for as you want something decent on your showreel. If you choose the right people and you do a good job then they will recommend you to others and you'll find business taking off.

[Arpangel]

I'm just sending email after email hoping the best.

If the classical world is anything like the music worlds that I inhabit then you have to get out and meet people. Prospective clients like to put a face to a name and would rather deal with people that they have met (and liked) in person.

I would also offer to do one or two jobs for free - but be picky about who you do them for as you want something decent on your showreel. If you choose the right people and you do a good job then they will recommend you to others and you'll find business taking off.

When I was assisting Mike Skeet, Id say most or all of his work came from recommendations, word of mouth, then it snow balls, when people hear you can do a good job, and your prices are competitive.
It's a well over subscribed field anyway, with not much work.

[The Red Bladder]

- Is it normal for business to be so slow?

Depends on where you are - here in Europe, classical music centres around London, Berlin, Paris, etc. and probably in that order. i.e. there where classical music is being played. It also cross-feeds with film music for obvious reasons.

- Is there any strategy in finding people who are actually keen to record? I'm just sending email after email hoping the best.

As James put it - get out there and TALK to people. Meet and greet!

- Is focusing on classical a lost cause? Do I have to get involved with bands?

Band recording is a different ball-game and takes some learning. I have done all and every type of recording in the past 60 years I've been at this game (bought my first tape recorder when in my early teens). Bands today can do an off-the-desk recording using very little equipment - or they are in the super league and hire a dedicated mobile unit for a few thousand a day.

But I would also look at all ands every type of classical such as opera, chamber, scratch ensembles and also branch out into folk, choral and anything else I can think of.

- How can I approach groups who have talent but little disposable income and no strict reason to have high-quality video/recording? Can they be "persuaded" at all?

The place where folks get a good deal of classical business off the beaten track is Germany because in Germany a musician can get a decent living as a state employee in a local city or state orchestra. In other words, you must be there where people are paying for classical music.

- Is there anything else I should know?

We (studio right at the Northern end of the UK) are getting more and more video work - mostly three or more camera work. This can be small ensembles or solo piano. This is partially because we are the only commercial studio with a full concert grand (Bösendorfer Imperial) North of Manchester that I am aware of. Having a 'secret weapon' like that goes a long way - though never lose sight of Bruce Swedien's mantra "Good microphones are a sound engineer's secret weapon!"

I keep costs right down by making shoots with a series of unmanned static cameras. Customers are creating their own YouTube channels and we provide the footage for them to either edit themselves or we do that for them. The best is to use a series of 4K GoPros, though we do have proper digital film cameras and I use one of those with a disk recorder for the video and audio.

But, as mentioned by Arpangel, it is a very thin market, made even thinner by budget-priced competition. The trick is to do a really fantastic job at a decent price - and if they are not prepared to pay for you doing a good job, F--k 'em!

[OneWorld]

I would concur with others, get out there. It's like the analogy with line fishing v trawler fishing, ok with trawler fishing you haul up a lot which is only ft for throwing back, but once in a while there's a worthy haul.

Way back when a friend and I set up a mobile recording facility and we just by accident fell into recording school productions. We both realised there was a captive audience, the parents. It was all basically my idea but I didn't really have the time nor inclination to develop our little business, and at the time I had a lush full time job that verified the saying "If you love your job you'll never have to work a day in your life" and I favoured that option.

However my partner, had lost his job, young and enthusiastic and rotting on the dole. This recording opportunity was made for him, recording was an all consuming passion and the effort he put into it raised it to the level of a devotion to the profession. He would record anything and everything and anywhere, even if it meant lugging his gear onto the bus if I weren't around to give him a lift in my car.

Time passed by and I went onto other opportunities and I left the business to him. Over the years he built up a very distinguished clientele, the quick dial on his phone was like a who's who. And it was all word of mouth. One trick he pulled in the early days was he would advertise himself as a woman, having noticed that back in the day, and to a great extent even today, there weren't many women producers/recordists., But the deal was this, musicians had to send in stems and my friend would do the production work. He explained this away by saying She(well he) couldn't disclose who she was as she would be in breach of contract. He told me to this day there are many artists who had their stuff produced by Joanne Smith when in fact it was Joe Smith.

Anyway, my point being, that it seems in the world of music, and many others, you simply have to put yourself about and by way of probability, if there is a hit rate of say only 1% out of 100 you get a job, and it is surprising how things propagate once spread your seed, so to speak!

Best of luck, someone has to do it, it might as well be you

[sc1460]

I need a reality check…

The fact remains that classical recording itself makes no money so any services I provide are for promotion and love.

Welcome to the world of folk music.

…I mean classical.

yup folk music, where ambition goes to a care home…

[OneWorld]

I need a reality check…

The fact remains that classical recording itself makes no money so any services I provide are for promotion and love.

Welcome to the world of folk music.

…I mean classical.

yup folk music, where ambition goes to a care home…

With a Nay-Noddy-Nay and a To-Rah Loo-Rah-Lay

[Sam Spoons]

That sounds more Dexys Midnight Runners than Bellowhead

[shufflebeat]

That sounds more Dexys Midnight Runners than Bellowhead

I’m told it all sounds the same to the uninitiated.

Bless!

Anyway, they can’t be folk music, they have money.

[Sam Spoons]

That sounds more Dexys Midnight Runners than Bellowhead

I’m told it all sounds the same to the uninitiated.

Bless!

Anyway, they can’t be folk music, they have money.

A good point, well made

[Hugh Robjohns]

I need a reality check from the veterans here....
... whilst there are a ton of ensembles here worth recording, very few have the money or desire to record.

I think you've answered your own question. Your local market appears to be too small, too underfunded, and too disinterested to support your recording services.

I get envious of my European and US colleagues who seem to be surrounded with music.

I dont think it's at all rosy business for amateur recording engineers in Europe or the US. There is a small but healthy market at the professional end, but there are only a handful of very experienced engineers doing all the properly paid work.

Everyone one else is working for free or expenses just to build experience — or purely for the love of it. Most are doing the latter.

Is it normal for business to be so slow?

At the amateur end, yes.

Is focusing on classical a lost cause? Do I have to get involved with bands?

Arguably yes, and if you want to generate (small) income, yes... but recording bands is a totally different bucket of fish that needs totally different equipment... and involves a lot more hassle, in my experience.

Can they be "persuaded" at all?

Only by working for free, doing everything they want when they want it, and not impacting what they do in any way...

It's pretty much guaranteed these days that every classical ensemble will include someone (or know someone) with a cheap Tascam/Zoom recorder with built in mics that does all their recordings anyway. And the same for video shoots. They simply won't see the value of hiring a semi-professional.

And while the quality may not be as good as you can achieve, it will be good enough for their youtube promos.

So, as a business plan, I dont think yours will stand up in the current climate.

[Bob Bickerton]

Finally getting round to replying to the OP and though I have very little to offer other than what has been said, I can relate to what you're saying.

I live in New Zealand in a fairly isolated area, population around 100,000, but with a vibrant arts and music scene, though largely amateur. I've been offering recording services to the area since 1996 and during that time I've experienced a substantial change in the recording requirements/desires/perceptions of the community.

Whilst I can, in theory, record anything, I choose to focus on acoustic music genres including classical and choral.

In the last 10 to 15 years, I've noticed a marked transition from performance groups being open to having fairly serious recordings of their work which might be distributed on CD, to really only being interested in something they can pop up on Youtube.

So as an example, I used to record local orchestras and choirs and produce a short-run CD (with classy artwork) and players would buy copies for their friends and family. They managed to pretty much cover the cost of the recording this way.

But now, with little means of recovering costs from social media, they'll opt for a video, sometimes with dubious audio, so they can be 'seen' online.

In terms of bands/contemporary music, the democratisation of recording gear access has meant that many people produce their own recordings.

These days, I record the occasional concert for Radio New Zealand Concert (if they don't have a crew available in a main centre) and also record an annual chamber music summer school. There's a very good international chamber music festival here every two years and whilst I have occasionally recorded concerts in it, generally speaking RNZ Concert will send their own crew of producer and engineer to record the concerts for broadcast, which is great and expected.

One area I'm still quite active in is recording professional audio/video for remote student auditions (we have a very active music school here).

The advice above about making personal contact with people and offering services for free to get started, is worthy. I happened to be well connected in the community here already, but the reality is less and less groups are prepared to pay for recording services in smaller communities.

This all sounds negative, and in terms of generating income from offering recording services it is, but setting yourself up with gear to record concerts of classical music isn't that hard and it's great gear to have on hand for your own projects, which is how I justify holding onto it!

One idea I've had, but haven't followed through on, is to explore setting up a streaming option for local groups on Soundcloud or Bandcamp. A performance group may not have the wherewithal to set up their own channel, so a community wide one could be a possibility, produced by someone like yourself. I guess a sort of 'community label', but I've no idea how something like that would work financially - probably quite badly!

The crucial aspect you need if you're offering this service is your skill base to deliver a professionally produced and engineered recording, that's arguably more important than the gear you use and the key difference between yourself and a community group popping up a video camera for Youtube.

Bob

[Watchmaker]

You may also check in with any music programs at universities or conservatories within walkabout distance.

[Drew Stephenson]

One idea I've had, but haven't followed through on, is to explore setting up a streaming option for local groups on Soundcloud or Bandcamp. A performance group may not have the wherewithal to set up their own channel, so a community wide one could be a possibility, produced by someone like yourself. I guess a sort of 'community label', but I've no idea how something like that would work financially - probably quite badly!

I like the idea of this and might have a bit of look around my area and see what's being done at the moment. But purely from a hobby basis; I can't see that there will be any money in it.
We are, like it or not, in a world where content is advertising. People need to figure out what they are actually selling (live performance sometimes) off the back of their media content, and a lot of people haven't worked that bit out yet.
And if content is advertising, not merchandise, then people's budgets for creating that will be smaller.

[tacitus]

I find offering cake has helped me get both conducting and recording gigs. In my home area I have a modest reputation for baking palatable cakes and a slightly greater one for turning music groups into cake-eating clubs.

Which suggests to me the professional service musicians have time for is not what you might expect …

[Drew Stephenson]

I, for one, endorse the move to a cake-based economy.

[Hugh Robjohns]

I second that. Can't be any worse than the current paradigm...

[OneWorld]

So can you have your cake and b-eat it?

[shufflebeat]

I find offering cake has helped me get both conducting and recording gigs.

I thought, “that’s a bit candid!”, until I realised it was cake, not coke.

New specs, please!

[tacitus]

I’ve tried offering coke, but few people have any idea how to burn it …