Small ish Digital mixer for solo artist?

[skipper01]

I wondered if anybody could advise?
I have an Allen&Heath Zed10fx that I use live in my solo capacity mixing stage piano, vocals, drum module, sometimes dj controller.
It’s been great but I have a problem with it now which is making me consider either replacing like for like or even going digital.
I could really do with a couple more channels and I’m now considering digital as ideally I could do with a bit more eq control in particular for my stage piano. I’d love to be able to have more scope for controlling the low mids and mids with bell control.
I imagine all digital mixers have built in effects too?
However, I like the immediacy of the analogue layout/control and it’s easy adjustment under pressure of set ups - to include quick control of gain and balance of guest singers sometimes on the fly….!
I am concerned about the realities of hassle of multiple menus and/or having to cart around and remember to ie charge another iPad or pen just to afford realistic control of a digital board that (I assume) will always have a small screen on a smaller style console?
I would potentially be prepared to get a slightly physically ‘bigger’ unit if the control was as close to speedy analogue as possible or ie larger screen.
At this stage I don’t want to limit myself to any budget or compare to the replacement cost of the unit I have until I am clearer.
I appreciate there are lots of products out there but could anybody advise or offer an opinion?
Maybe I’d just be better off with another small ish analogue mixer perhaps with a few more channels and maybe insert points or just an outboard eq to run the piano through (as all small analogue mixers appear to have limited eq onboard) even given these are the main considerations…..
I’m not sure if there are any digital products that may even sound better than what I currently use for live use?
Anyway, cheers for any thoughts…!

[Sam Spoons]

I'd probably consider an Allen & Heath Qu16. It might be a bit bigger than you really need but it has the most analogue like workflow of any compact digital desk I've used. It's one major omission is it's lack of scribble strips which for me as (at the time) a jobbing sound guy was a deal breaker but if you run the same setup then that becomes less of a problem and some LX tape and a sharpie will get the job done.

The new Yamaha DM3S looks interesting and is a fair bit smaller but seems to have fewer hands on controls which must lead to more menu diving.

Alternatives include Presonus StudioLive, Behringer X32 Producer/Compact and Zoom Live Track but I think anything else will either be bigger/more complex.

Anything smaller in terms of inputs lacks the physical controls/faders you say you'd prefer.

[Wonks]

I saw this on the Andertons web site the other day and was quite interested.

https://www.andertons.co.uk/studiomaste ... g-console/

and https://www.studiomaster.com/digitalmixing/digilive8c/

I have no idea how it sounds but I'm now interested in getting one as a small mixer.

You'd need to add your own wi-fi dongle (which means it's easy to update to new wi-fi standards).

It all depends what you mean by 'a couple more channels'. I'm assuming you mean mic rather than line, but it would help if you could be more specific about the mix of input types you were after.

[forumuser840717]

If 16 mic inputs is enough, then the Yamaha DM3 is worth a look.

I had a play with one for a couple of days and a live (classical) concert broadcast just before Christmas and thought it was rather dinky. Super portable, very easy to use (Yamaha have done a really good job with the user interface, allowing a good level of user configurability/customisation and the touchscreen is more responsive than many), a reasonable level of facilities, nice solid feel and decent sound quality all making for a neat little package and not over-priced for what it offers. The outboard PSU is a bit of a shame but at least it makes it easy to carry and swap-in a spare/backup PSU in case of failure.

Not much use if one needs more i/o though. I wish they did a 32x32 version of the Dante unit as well as the 16x16 one.

[ajay_m]

The DM3 also has the advantage that it will record a stereo signal to a plugged in usb thumb drive thus allowing live performances to be easily captured. Mine has worked flawlessly for the last 18 months in the studio, but it's obviously easy to tuck under one arm for a gig. The external PSU is a small negative i guess but the connector it uses is very rugged. There aren't many physical controls of course, but the touch screen is very good and quite large, about the size of one of the smaller iPads, so changing settings like eq is fairly easy.

[Eddy Deegan]

The only small digital mixer I have proper experience with is the A&H Qu-16 and for the purposes described it would suit the job well I think. As digital mixers go it's well thought-out and it wasn't hard to adapt to it after using an analogue mixer in the past.

It also offers direct-to-USB recording, either as a stereo mix or a full multitrack. If doing the full multitrack you get the stereo mix as well. One thing I think it could have done better would have been to be able to select which tracks you want to record when multitrack recording as you get silent WAV files written for all unused channels.

It's a minor annoyance though. The Qu has full dynamics, EQ and noise gate on every channel of course, as well as four stereo FX slots with dedicated return channels and flexible EQ on the return of each.

I used to use mine as an audio interface but since getting a bigger unit for my main studio desk I now use the Qu-16 to submix (and add FX to) my modular gear. It's great for recording jams and is very portable.

[Murray B]

One of my mates uses a Allen and Heath CQ12T with a 4 piece band and is very happy with it.

If 12 channels fit the bill then it might work for you.

No faders, but a built in screen, small footprint.

[Arpangel]

The only small digital mixer I have proper experience with is the A&H Qu-16 and for the purposes described it would suit the job well I think. As digital mixers go it's well thought-out and it wasn't hard to adapt to it after using an analogue mixer in the past.

It also offers direct-to-USB recording, either as a stereo mix or a full multitrack. If doing the full multitrack you get the stereo mix as well. One thing I think it could have done better would have been to be able to select which tracks you want to record when multitrack recording as you get silent WAV files written for all unused channels.

It's a minor annoyance though. The Qu has full dynamics, EQ and noise gate on every channel of course, as well as four stereo FX slots with dedicated return channels and flexible EQ on the return of each.

I used to use mine as an audio interface but since getting a bigger unit for my main studio desk I now use the Qu-16 to submix (and add FX to) my modular gear. It's great for recording jams and is very portable.

Eddy, the QU 16 is tempting, but a side road, where are the send and return sockets for external FX?

[Music Wolf]

Eddy, the QU 16 is tempting, but a side road, where are the send and return sockets for external FX?

A quick glance would suggest that it has 10 aux outs (4 mono / 3 stereo pairs, all on XLR). Returns would need to be via channel strips. All connections are on the rear pannel. There are also 4 built in effects.

Whether or not latency on the aux path is an issue may depend upon the type of external effect being used.

[Arpangel]

Eddy, the QU 16 is tempting, but a side road, where are the send and return sockets for external FX?

A quick glance would suggest that it has 10 aux outs (4 mono / 3 stereo pairs, all on XLR). Returns would need to be via channel strips. All connections are on the rear pannel. There are also 4 built in effects.

Whether or not latency on the aux path is an issue may depend upon the type of external effect being used.

So those "output" XLR's could be sends?

[Wonks]

But using external effects misses the whole point of a small format digital mixer for live work where the built-in effects will be more than adequate.

[Wonks]

The Aux outs can be anything you want. Sends to FX, sends to monitors, stereo sends to IEMs.

[Sam Spoons]

IIRC the Qu16 has 6 aux inputs in addition to it's 16 mic inputs, these are there to be used as, amongst other things, fx returns. But, yes, for live use the onboard fx should be more than sufficient.

[Wonks]

IIRC the Qu16 has 6 aux inputs in addition to it's 16 mic inputs, t

YRW, there are no dedicated aux returns on the QU16. 16 mic/line inputs and 3 stereo inputs.

https://www.allen-heath.com/hardware/qu/qu-16/

[skipper01]

Many thanks for all the suggestions, help and advise.
All noted with considerations for each one.
Yes, I did mean a couple of extra mic/line channels on my original post.
All the suggestions given cover enough channels - it’s pretty much down to physical size (probably the QU16 is a bit big at first glance although I’ll get my tape measure out) and speed and fluidity of operation for me I reckon now (ideally not have to take/use a separate tablet)
Cheers again..

[Wonks]

I've just ordered the Studiomaster for myself, which should arrive Thursday. I'll post how easy I find it to use.

[Sam Spoons]

If you are happy with touch screen control (onboard as opposed to with an external device) the options open up a little with the likes of the TouchMix (or even a Mackie DL1608). I'm a bit out of touch these days but there doesn't seem to be anything between the Berry Flow 8 and the Qu16 with, say, 12 inputs and faders. Something like a Flow 12or Qu8 with 8 mic/combo inputs and 3 x stereo line ins would tick a lot of peoples boxes. The DM3S comes closest but

[Arpangel]

Worth checking out, but not enough input channels for me.

[MarkOne]

I've been pretty happy with the Zoom L20R and it's companion iPad app (And it does pretty good multi-track recordings too)

The L20 and it's little brother the L12 are both basically the same engine, but with control surfaces rather than the app (But be aware the faders are not motorised)

[skipper01]

I've just ordered the Studiomaster for myself, which should arrive Thursday. I'll post how easy I find it to use.

Please do, thanks again and to all !

[BenWilesMusic]

I can’t help but notice that a lot of this thread concerns mixers which cost 5 times as much (or more) as the Zed10fx; the QU16 costs around £1500, which doesn’t seem to me to be a direct replacement for the £300 Zed10.

I would have thought that something like a Behringer XR12/XR16/XR18 (£200 - £300ish) would be more in keeping for a replacement. These do require a tablet or phone or laptop app to run (and you might well want a router as the built in WiFi is crap), though they can also be controlled via Ethernet with an X Touch controller - though this doubles the price!

The Soundcraft UI12 is another option which is very good - especially as it is now available for less than £300. You still need a phone/tablet/laptop, but it runs in a web browser which is better than needing an app. For more channels, there is the is UI16, which is a bit more expensive (£350ish).

Any of these would be an ideal replacement for the Zed10, but all need to be controlled via phone/tablet/laptop. Someone mentioned the digilive 8c, which is very cheap and can be controlled from two knobs on the front panel - though it looks like you would still be using a phone to do anything complicated as two knobs seems maybe too minimal. It also has fewer channels than the zed.

The next step up, price and feature wise, would seem to be the CQ12T (£650), which has a built in touch screen, the x32R (£700), which has a screen and quite a few knobs, the digilive16 (£700) which has a full control surface with faders and a touch screen, then the likes of the x32 Producer (£900), which is the most basic version of the full Behringer x32.

Looking at these options, my feeling is that you would be best served by getting something like an xr18 or Ui16 along with a cheap Android tablet. You could even get an X18 (almost identical to the xr18, but in a flat format) and Velcro the tablet to it so it can’t get lost. This would give you something very similar to a CQ12T for a fair bit less, with the added flexibility of being able to walk along the venue when the guest vocalists are singing and adjust levels from the back of the room.

[skipper01]

Thanks for these further thoughts and opinions that are welcomed!
It is interesting potentially replacing analogue for digital that more considerations seem to spring up including price.
To be fair I think people are trying to offer solutions given my suggestions at the very start hence the far more expensive options.
I think im possibly in that ground where I either need to look at the 'cheaper' end where a tablet is required or ie the Yamaha DM3 where its built in screen and tactile controls could be enough.
Anything bigger than that is too big for me on my mixer stand and in tight places I have had to set-up.
Moreover, as a solo keyboard player/vocalist having to engineer at the same time its tricky to sound check.
The only digital mixer I have actually tried briefly in a shop was a QSC Touchmix 16 and I simply couldn't work effectively with this screen personally just using my fingers.
Nothing against QSC products by the way as I use their K series speakers and absolutely love them!
I mention as its probably a matter of the size of the screen for any product for me for my needs/tastes.
Wondering whether to just get a slightly bigger analogue desk again but my gut tells me to go digital but just be careful hence this post in part!
Cheers again

[The Elf]

I hesitated to recommend the XR18 to anyone who feels strongly about not wanting a separate control surface. I attach to mine with a laptop via a network cable. As keen as I am on my XR18, I don't feel I'd be quite so enamoured through an iPad, especially if having to rely on wireless. It's one reason I rejected the X18 from my shopping list.

Of course you can also attach an X-Touch to the XR18, which does make for a more 'hands on' mixer - up to a point. Anything other than basic interations and you really need to go in through a laptop/tablet.

To the OP: take a look at the X18/XR18 with an open mind, though I fully understand why it might not be for you. It's one of the best options out there for the money, but it's not for everyone.

[Stratman57]

I have a Tascam Model 12, which would fit the OP's requirements. Small footprint digital mixer with analogue mixer front end and with 3 band EQ with sweepable mids. It also does multi track + stereo mix recording to SD card.

Regards, Simon.

[resistorman]

I have a Tascam Model 12, which would fit the OP's requirements. Small footprint digital mixer with analogue mixer front end and with 3 band EQ with sweepable mids. It also does multi track + stereo mix recording to SD card.

Regards, Simon.

It's a good mixer for sure. However, it does have a manufacturing problem. The power switch, which is actually a standby switch, goes bad. I've had two mixers, both with the same problem, and my friend has a third. It actually is trivial to open up and jumper the switch, and possibly newer units don't have this problem.