Dante VSC Pro - What the £$%^&?!

[The Elf]

I just received an email from Audinate offering me a 30 day 'free trial' of their Dante Virtual Soundcard Pro.

They are set to follow this up by charging me $99 for my first year subscription, followed by $125 per year... WTF?!?!?!?

A subscription? Seriously?

The day I'm expected to pay a subscription for a 'soundcard', virtual or otherwise, is the day I change soundcard. I'm sure Audinate will continue to do nicely, licensing their intellectual property to overpriced interfaces, without my money. I've considered Dante a few times, but the cost of physical interfaces has always stopped me. I'm now glad it did.

I'd be interested to know if anyone else is prepared to pay, as I find it hard to imagine anyone swallowing this.

[Luke W]

Looks like they're still doing perpetual licenses of the standard version, so it does seem an odd choice to go for subscription-only on this one.

It seems that the features the Pro version offers over the standard are very much aimed at large-scale stuff, though, so I can't see the cost being too problematic there.

[The Elf]

I realise there are other options (and I did pay for a license a few years ago), but this is now not the kind of company I want to do ANY business with.

[Hugh Robjohns]

With the greatest respect, Elf, I think you're massively over-reacting and completely misunderstanding the situation.

The annual VSC subscription is just one of several different purchase options and one specifically intended for large scale professional users.

The one-machine and transferable 64-channel VSC permanent purchase options are still available for one-off fees of $50 and $100 respectively.

The subscription option only applies to the 128 channel Pro version (which is also transferable between computers), and gets all updates and upgrades at no extra charge (whereas the one-off payment versions only get major version updates). The Pro option also has more sophisticated clock options and various other benefits.

Audinate have not removed previous one-off purchase options. They've added a subscription option for the most demanding professional users for whom it is potentially beneficial.

In a fixed studio situation, VSC is probably not the best solution anyway, and something like RME's Digiface Dante would be better...

[The Elf]

Maybe I *am* over-reacting, it's true, but I will NEVER agree to paying a subscription, and I hope those this offering *is* aimed at think similarly.

When these large systems that could benefit from this 'Pro' version have paid through the nose for their Dante-badged interfaces (check those prices) then the least Audinate could do is *give* them the software.

[Hugh Robjohns]

You're perfectly entitled to your views on subscription software, but in this case those views are irrelevant as one-off purchase options remain and are unlikely to be withdrawn anytime soon.

But given your subsequent comments, I think it's worth checking that you really understand what VSC is and its relevance (or not) to a Dante system?

Yes, Dante hardware is expensive, partly because the cost includes licening the technology...but the controller software to configure the network is free...

VSC is essential a substitute for a computer hardware interface... and therefore isn't free (and isn't as efficient).

[The Elf]

But given your subsequent comments, I think it's worth checking that you really understand what VSC is and its relevance (or not) to a Dante system?

Yes I do. I've used it.

[Luke W]

When these large systems that could benefit from this 'Pro' version have paid through the nose for their Dante-badged interfaces (check those prices) then the least Audinate could do is *give* them the software.

This is what's confusing me. If they've got a Dante interface, then they don't need DVS! It exists purely to get audio to/from a Dante network without needing a hardware Dante interface.

[The Elf]

It presents an ASIO input to a DAW.

[Hugh Robjohns]

The clue is in the name. It's a virtual sound card. It has more latency than a hardware soundcard.

Useful if you want to record a live performance by eavesdropping on a Dante system with a laptop, but very much not ideal in a studio system, for example.

[Luke W]

But so does a hardware Dante interface. What am I missing?!

If you're running something like, lets say, a Rednet PCIe card, then hooking it up to your Rednet I/O units (other Dante systems are available ) means that all of the audio I/O present on the Dante network will be provided to the DAW by the card itself. DVS Pro would play no part in that, and is designed for different applications, hence it not being free to those who purchase Dante interfaces.

[Hugh Robjohns]

If you're running something like, lets say, a Rednet PCIe card, then hooking it up to your Rednet I/O units (other Dante systems are available ) means that all of the audio I/O present on the Dante network will be provided to the DAW by the card itself. DVS Pro would play no part in that...

Quite.

I think the kind of customer VSC Pro is aimed at, is someone wanting to piggy back a recording at a big live sound event where Dante I/O units are connected to a Dante console with no built-in recording function.

Why would that facility be free? The VSC user hasn't bought any Dante hardware.

But for someone running a studio with Dante sources, they'd be using a Dante hardware computer interface because it would be nuts to use VSC.

As for why VSC Pro is only available on subscription, I dont know. It feels a restrictive step from a users' point of view... but I totally get why manufacturers like the subscription model from a business longevity point of view.

[The Elf]

I'm not saying that VSC Pro should be free. What I *am* saying is...

If I'd bought 'pro' Dante hardware I'd expect to get the 'Pro' software included for my money.

If I hadn't bought Dante hardware I'd expect to be able to buy the 'Pro' software (not just a cut-down) for a one-off fee.

In neither circumstance would I expect the word 'subscription' to enter the conversation.

[Johnsy]

When these large systems that could benefit from this 'Pro' version have paid through the nose for their Dante-badged interfaces (check those prices) then the least Audinate could do is *give* them the software.

This is what's confusing me. If they've got a Dante interface, then they don't need DVS! It exists purely to get audio to/from a Dante network without needing a hardware Dante interface.

I think when Elf talks about an "interface" here, he's talking about an I/O box (after the fashion of a USB, TB or FW "interface"). In other words, it's a terminology issue.

(Correct me if I'm wrong, of course, Elf).

[The Elf]

When these large systems that could benefit from this 'Pro' version have paid through the nose for their Dante-badged interfaces (check those prices) then the least Audinate could do is *give* them the software.

This is what's confusing me. If they've got a Dante interface, then they don't need DVS! It exists purely to get audio to/from a Dante network without needing a hardware Dante interface.

I think when Elf talks about an "interface" here, he's talking about an I/O box (after the fashion of a USB, TB or FW "interface"). In other words, it's a terminology issue.

(Correct me if I'm wrong, of course, Elf).

Fair point. I'm talking about an 'interface' to the Dante network.

[Hugh Robjohns]

What I *am* saying is... If I'd bought 'pro' Dante hardware I'd expect to get the 'Pro' software included for my money.

Thanks for the clarity... but I still dont understand why.

Perhaps the 'Pro' moniker is misleading. All Dante hardware is 'Pro'.... the VSC Pro is just a version of VSC that can handle twice as many channels as the standard version (plus a few other bells and whistles).

The Dante system needs Dante components at both ends of the network. That could be an I/O stage box and a mixer in a live sound rig, or an I/O box and a computer PCI or USB interface in a studio. None of those components are free, and none come free if you buy the other end!

So why would VSC be free, when its role is to serve as an inferior alternative to the computer hardware interface?

It would be like buying an RME 12mic preamp and expecting to get a Madiface USB free cos, you know, its Pro, innit...

In neither circumstance would I expect the word 'subscription' to enter the conversation.

I respect that view — I'm not entirely comfortable with subscriptions either, although I have several where there's no practical alternative — and I have no interest in justifying the sub option in this particular case other than to point out that its just one of several different available purchase options.

[The Elf]

It would be like buying an RME 12mic preamp and expecting to get a Madiface USB free cos, you know, its Pro, innit...

To me it's like buying an RME Fireface and being expected to pay a subscription for its 'Pro' ASIO driver to open up all its channels!

[Luke W]

If I'd bought 'pro' Dante hardware I'd expect to get the 'Pro' software included for my money.

That's the bit I'm struggling to understand, though. If you've bought said hardware, then you don't need DVS or DVS Pro — it's an alternative to the hardware interface, not a companion for it.

To me it's like buying an RME Fireface and being expected to pay a subscription for its 'Pro' ASIO driver to open up all its channels!

But that's not a like-for-like comparison. Hooking up a hardware Dante interface to your computer presents its full channel count to your DAW; there is nothing that needs opening up!

[The Elf]

If I'd bought 'pro' Dante hardware I'd expect to get the 'Pro' software included for my money.

That's the bit I'm struggling to understand, though. If you've bought said hardware, then you don't need DVS or DVS Pro — it's an alternative to the hardware interface, not a companion for it.

To me it's like buying an RME Fireface and being expected to pay a subscription for its 'Pro' ASIO driver to open up all its channels!

But that's not a like-for-like comparison. Hooking up a hardware Dante interface to your computer presents its full channel count to your DAW; there is nothing that needs opening up!

I take my laptop along to a huge gig, where I've been asked to multi-track the event...

I can tap into the Dante network, but how do I present an ASIO device to my DAW? I have no hardware interface to my laptop; only an Ethernet cable. That's where VSC comes in.

(And if I don't have the 'Pro' version I may not be able to access all the available channels simultaneously...)

Unless you know something I don't (which is eminently possible!)?

[Johnsy]

It would be like buying an RME 12mic preamp and expecting to get a Madiface USB free cos, you know, its Pro, innit...

To me it's like buying an RME Fireface and being expected to pay a subscription for its 'Pro' ASIO driver to open up all its channels!

If you by a Fireface, the accompanying (driver) software will allow you to connect up to four Firefaces - but that's it.

The DVS on the other hand allows you to connect any number of Dante devices from any number of vendors.

This isn't to defend the subscription model - I'm pretty militant there myself - , but just to emphasise the point that the DVS is rather more than a conventional device driver. It's effectively the driver and the device. It's doing the same thing as the Dante PCIe card or the RME Digiface Dante, only in software.

[Hugh Robjohns]

I take my laptop along to a huge gig, where I've been asked to multi-track the event...

I can tap into the Dante network, but how do I present an ASIO device to my DAW? I have no hardware interface to my laptop; only an Ethernet cable. That's where VSC comes in.

Absolutely, it is... but why should it be free?

If the laptop didn't have an ethernet port you'd have to use something like a Digiface Dante... which wouldn't be free.

(And if I don't have the 'Pro' version I may not be able to access all the available channels simultaneously...)

If you're having to capture 128 channels it's a very big gig, you're being paid a big fee, and you can afford a subscription.... oh... and you won't have bought any of the Dante hardware involved either!

So the bottom line here is that you're being a bit Yorkshire about it.

[The Elf]

Can I please say once again: I don't expect it to be free! I'd be happy to buy.

I just don't expect to have to subscribe!

If you're having to capture 128 channels it's a very big gig, you're being paid a big fee...

Wish!

[The Elf]

If you buy a Fireface, the accompanying (driver) software will allow you to connect up to four Firefaces - but that's it.

But it doesn't say you can only access your 3rd and 4th Fireface by virtue of an extra payment... or a subscription.

[Hugh Robjohns]

Can I please say once again: I don't expect it to be free! I'd be happy to buy.

Then buy a Digiface Dante. Access 256 channels — that's mega-pro big gig territory! One off fee. Job done.

Or... buy two copies of the standard software and connect two laptops....

[Aled Hughes]

If I'd bought 'pro' Dante hardware I'd expect to get the 'Pro' software included for my money.

That's the bit I'm struggling to understand, though. If you've bought said hardware, then you don't need DVS or DVS Pro — it's an alternative to the hardware interface, not a companion for it.

To me it's like buying an RME Fireface and being expected to pay a subscription for its 'Pro' ASIO driver to open up all its channels!

But that's not a like-for-like comparison. Hooking up a hardware Dante interface to your computer presents its full channel count to your DAW; there is nothing that needs opening up!

I take my laptop along to a huge gig, where I've been asked to multi-track the event...

I can tap into the Dante network, but how do I present an ASIO device to my DAW? I have no hardware interface to my laptop; only an Ethernet cable. That's where VSC comes in.

(And if I don't have the 'Pro' version I may not be able to access all the available channels simultaneously...)

Unless you know something I don't (which is eminently possible!)?

That's the point Luke is making I think. If you don't have the suitable (expensive) hardware, then DVS (or VSC) does the job. But if you have the hardware, you don't need the virtual soundcard, so it wouldn't make much sense to give it free to the people who don't need it (ie. the people with the hardware)

DVS is useful for scenarios like the one you described - I've used it myself that way a few times, to take Dante feeds from multiple stages at a festival, and it does a good job. Like you I'd rather kust pay for it once and be done - but it seems that's still an option from what Hugh says.