Cubase 14 Pro: Modulator as volume leveler (e.g., effect like Vocal Rider)

[alexis]

Interesting stuff here. I've just recorded some vocals, will try this out. I imagine there will still be some manual leveling required, but I'm looking forward to using the new range tool function to do that ("Look Ma, no splits in the vocal track!"). Wondering how much time it might save ...

Good days in Cubase!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aI20bQeYOyo

What do you Cubase 14 Pro users think?

[SafeandSound Mastering]

I think if you can mix vocals well, just keep mixing vocals well.

It is not actually that difficult.

And if you cannot mix vocals well it is probably time you learned instead of expecting a plug in to do it. How is anyone going to know what a well mixed vocal is if they have never even done it themselves ?

Unless any new tool or technique is superior and you are in a good position to know it is superior then do it the old way. It's a vocal, a big part of a track, it should take a little bit of time.

That's not being old school either as some may think in some kind of derogatory manner, it's called knowing what you are doing.

I am working with some extremely well performed and produced music right now and the fetish-ization of new modern tools is blown out of proportion compared with application of fundamental, correctly ordered for efficiency, building block knowedge, built up over decades and decades of experience. Someone who has worked professionally for about 50 years
and the music is superb.

There is no plug in or tool that replaced that and there never ever will be.

Also there is no real division between modern ways and old ways, usually either it was done well or not.

I am not against anything, any tool, any approach and have as many new tools as anyone else, I just won't change unless something is actually superior, that's how I deal with new software.

[Matt Houghton]

Hi Alexis,

First, I want to say that I have immense respect for Dom. His material always sounds great, and he's done many brilliant tutorials on Cubase, and I've often found inspiration in them.

But as far as I can see, this is not like Vocal Rider at all. I'm happy to be proven wrong if I've missed something obvious, but I really don't see what this offers that a compressor couldn't — it's just turning down the signal when the signal exceeds a threshold, and with pretty much the same controls as on a compressor. He's talking about levelling before compression, but you can do that with compressors in series. It's capable of acting very fast, but so too is a basic digital lookahead compressor. The one advantage I can see is that you could write these fader moves as automation and later edit that automation manually.

Mike Senior wrote a clever Cubase Workshop back when Vocal Rider came out in 2010 (https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques ... ocal-rider) that explained more about what that plug-in is intended to do, and it's a whole lot more than compression. In it, he also demonstrated how you could achieve a similar thing in Cubase using the bundled plug-ins.

You can do pretty much the same using the Modulators, since they have an external side-chain option (I've tried it and it works), but that's not the technique Dom's demonstrating here.

All the best,

Matt

[The Elf]

I agree with Matt. I also saw this video and thought - this is a 'compressor' to all intents.

That said, I've already given the technique a try-out with a bass guitar track in a mix I'm working on. It does a job, sure, but I definitely could have achieved the same with a compressor.

What I recall about when I used to use Bass Rider was that it would hold its attenuation over the duration of a detected note (or at least it did most of the time!), which *did* make it significantly different to a compressor. This technique doesn't emulate that - if it did I'd be a convert. As it is... it's interesting, but not very useful.

Of more use may be tying the envelope follower to the controls of a Dual Filter to fade out noise, or hum...

[Matt Houghton]

it would hold its attenuation over the duration of a detected note

I don't think it really detected notes as such, as it was level/threshold based rather than using transient detection. Though it could ride up as well as down within the defined target range, which could help to give that impression.

Have you tried SoundRadix Drum Leveller on bass guitar? It's often really good on bass — turns whole notes down, rather than applying any 'curves'.

[The Elf]

it would hold its attenuation over the duration of a detected note

I don't think it really detected notes as such, as it was level/threshold based rather than using transient detection. Though it could ride up as well as down within the defined target range, which could help to give that impression.

I'm pretty sure it did. The fader would only move on each bass transient (it didn't always get this right, especially on long held notes - resulting in a sudden jump in volume during the fade), and this was backed up by seeing the automation it created.

Have you tried SoundRadix Drum Leveller on bass guitar? It's often really good on bass — turns whole notes down, rather than applying any 'curves'.

No, I haven't, though you've now made me curious. That price makes me wince, though. It will have to wait for a very special deal to come along. In the meantime I'm happy doing a bit of editing.

[Aled Hughes]

I find Melodyne good at levelling individual notes in a way that a compressor can't - might be worth a try if you're already a user (it's a bit expensive if you don't need all the pitch correction stuff!)

[SafeandSound Mastering]

Here is a quick vocal mixing suggestion that will work over and over again.

HPF vox at 35Hz steeply, discount if you are 100pct certain it is clean down there.

Bring vox fader up clean, listen.

Sit the mean level against the music so you almost hear every word. Some maybe loud some too quiet, all normal !

EQ obvious problems away. Get lows right 80-140Hz remove mud 200-400Hz leaving the desired warmth, EQ 2-4kHz if lack of intelligiability, add some air or not, if needed or to taste.

Remove any specific vocal tonal issues like nasality, harsh mid range frequencies, overblown lower mids etc.

De-ess using 2 not 1 tool, i.e. a dynamic EQ and an de-esser as needed or maybe not at all, split the job between 2 competent tools for extra transparency. 'Esses' exist and they stick out a tad but they should not draw the ear in too much, they should be just slightly louder than other consonants.

Compress with 1 really good transparent compressor something like Attack 12ms / Release 150-200ms, 3-4 dB GR. I like VCA style myself, solid and reliable.

Then put a second compressor, again 3-4dB GR.

(3-4dB might be 2-3dB GR or 3-5dB GR, judge it, if you have large dynamic swings, clamp down a bit more and if it is more even less so and of course compensate with make up gain.) If the vocal is well controlled maybe just 1 comp, make a decision on it.

For both comps use make up as needed to keep the vocal at roughly the mean ideal level for the track. Use make up gain with common sense applied usually 70pct of the peak gain reduction is sensible so you hear the effect of compression fairly clearly.

This should have you in good shape but there will be words and phrases that are louder or quieter than ideal...............................

Then fader rider the entire vocal using fader automation from start to end of the track using the automation envelopes asking these simple questions :

1) Does the vocal always sit just right for every phrase ? i.e. it gels with mix all the time.

2) Does it stick out and call the ears unduly ? Then automate downwards.

3) Can I hear every word that is being sung ?

4) Do I need to hear every word that is being sung ?(if it is a punk heavy style roar, maybe not.)

It will look something like this:



You can see some sharp auto envelopes as I automated for specific sylllables and vocal sounds that stuck out. (I did this as a favour for someone)

Add high quality reverb to taste and listen again for over the top tail triggering and automate send or dip phrases by fader. Once things are under control it is easier to add reverb usually as control means there are less over the top triggers of the reverb. You can add some earlier just to give the feel of completeness a little earlier on, this is preference based.

I do not think anyone needs an automated process to mix a vocal as it is quite straight forwards as a process as outlined above.

Due quality control with the solo'd vocal after it is balanced.

Remove pops and clicks and reduce in level any unecessary sounds, like overly gaspy air intakes. Just make it tasteful, if tasteful is the order of the day.

That is the basics for a standard in tune vocal beyond any character processing you may wish to add.

I hope this helps.

[alexis]

Thanks much everyone! I completed my last song this week without use of that technique (time pressure constraints), looks like I didn't miss much.

Thanks especially to Matt Houghton for the historical perspective and a link to one of the SOS articles which of course we all knew would be a) out there, b) relevant and helpful!

And special thanks to SafeandSoundMastering for the time and effort to write out in wonderful detail his approach to vocals ... if I could take a pair of scissors to my computer screen I'd cut it out and put it on the refrigerator for constant viewing (oops, TMI!).

[Zukan]

This feature was the reason I upgraded Cubase.

[The Elf]

This feature was the reason I upgraded Cubase.

I can't say I have much use for it in my world. What uses are you putting it to, Eddy?

[Zukan]

P baby, I haven't delved deep into what they can do yet but I have been using them as extra modulators for synths that are limited in their source modulators. I have also been having fun doing some mad autotune pitching tricks for Hip Hop vocals, and using the modulators to shape effects and dynamics. Great on filters and reverb bursts etc...

I was hoping for more detailed and extensive modulators designed for specific tuning and dynamic tasks but maybe in Cubase 9732 Update 643 they will address those wishes.

[The Elf]

Thanks, mate! It's always interesting to hear how other people approach these things.

I can't see them making much of an impact in my world, but, as mentioned, I will no doubt be turning to the envelope follower for some noise filtering at some point.

It's a while since I had a shivery moment from a new Cubase feature - Vocal Chain was possibly the last.