King Korg Neo - switching it on

[Dashanna]

I'm realising the King Korg Neo doesn't come on when I flick the switch that turns the whole of the rest of my setup on - the King Korg Neo is 'special' and needs its 'on' switch held down for a couple of seconds - presumably some kind of very annoying power-saving feature?

Is there a way to defeat this behavior?

If I had a bunch of new Korg stuff, all needing their own switch-on attended to, this would be a sure passion killer. Won't be getting any more Korg stuff!

[BillB]

Just the same as the original KingKorg... probably because it is just the same as the original KingKorg...

[Dashanna]

same as the original KingKorg...

Which made me look for original King Korg internal photos etc.
There appears to be a chip near the switch which may be something to do with power management and might be defeatable. I need to look at my Neo in detail. No schematics online.

I have tried holding the power button in then applying power, but that doesn't work. And no settings in 'global' apart from turning auto-off off.

I was hoping this had already been figured out by someone else.

[Arpangel]

Is this such a big deal? as you know, the King Korg is a fantastic board, I have things in my set-up that I like to have off until I turn them on! it takes just a couple of seconds to turn those things on, Korg make some great stuff, and not buying things because of this is throwing the baby out with the bath water, I'd just put up with it, unless it's something that really affects your workflow in big way.

[MarkOne]

Think yourself lucky you don’t have a Hammond B3 as well.

[Hugh Robjohns]

Very true...

Start...10 seconds... Run.... and wait for the valves to warm up... and there's the sound...

[The Elf]

I have to say that I find this annoying on my K(org)ARP Odyssey too.

I had the PSU mounted internally and an IEC socket fitted, to rid myself of another hated external PSU, but the engineer didn't find a simple way to bypass the stupid momentary power button. I have to go press the button every time I power up the studio, and it's not an easy button to get to.

These things must seem so clever in the board room, but I wish some of those decision-makers would come see real people using their gear some time. Why does this synth need a power-up system that almost nobody else uses?

A first-world problem, maybe, but these things could be so easily avoided.

[Wonks]

Probably Korg's initial response to EU power saving regs, where they went over the top to comply rather than do the minimum necessary. As this seems to be a function only applied to a couple of their keyboards, I assume they then realised they could do it differently.

[ef37a]

I know nothing of the specific equipment but this startup process might have been dictated by a foible of design?

It may have been that the original design threw up random issues when powered up with a "hard start"? Allowing supply rails to stabilize probably fixed this. I am sure you all have had PCs that needed a restart?

Often with Joe Public you can't bloody win! I recall a device where a PSU re design was forced upon us and the result was that the LEDs would flash 3 or 4 times at power up. This made absolutely no difference to the subsequent operation of the box but we KNEW that if it was released "flashing" there would be a lot of kickback and complaining! A resistor value needed optimizing, took about a day's work.

Elsewhere in the forum is a small moan about a controller coming on with a bang? That, IMHO should have been sorted before release but 't'appen.
Then things were easier before these new fangled transistors came in. Valves come gently into this world giving time for circuits to settle down.

I am sure most of you remember virtually all tranny amps coming on with at least a "Whuump" and often a bang. All it needed was a delayed relay in the speaker circuit but such things cost money!

Dave.

[Wonks]

The switch is tied-in with an auto-power off if the synth is not used for about 30 minutes (IIRC). I too have a Korg Odyssey. Bloody stupid feature for a low-power consumption synth that if part of a live set-up, may very well not be used for quite some time.

[Hugh Robjohns]

...All it needed was a delayed relay in the speaker circuit but such things cost money!

...and can be a source of unreliability and sometimes even distortion.

[Hugh Robjohns]

The switch is tied-in with an auto-power off if the synth is not used for about 30 minutes (IIRC). I too have a Korg Odyssey. Bloody stupid feature for a low-power consumption synth that if part of a live set-up, may very well not be used for quite some time.

I have the Korg Odyssey desktop and I thought the auto power-off delay is four hours... and it can be disabled completely, if required.

[Wonks]

It's been a while since I used it! There may be some differences between the keyboard and rack unit. Mine was a very early one.

[ef37a]

...All it needed was a delayed relay in the speaker circuit but such things cost money!

...and can be a source of unreliability and sometimes even distortion.

Yes, if done on the cheap!

Dave.

[BillB]

From KK manual:

The KingKORG has an auto power-off function. When a certain duration of time has elapsed without user input on the front panel buttons or knobs, or without the keyboard being played, the power will turn off automatically. With the factory settings, this is set to four hours.
If desired, you can disable this function as follows.
Disabling the auto power-off function
1. Hold down the SHIFT/EXIT button and press the PROGRAM (GLOBAL) button to enter Global mode.
2. Use the PAGE +/- buttons to access the GLOBAL “g15: Power Off” page.
3. Turn the value dial to choose “Disable.”
4. To save the change you've made, press the WRITE button to save the global settings. (OM: p.21 “1. Saving global settings”).
If you turn off the power without saving, the changes you've made to the global settings will be discarded. If you want to use your edited settings in the future, be sure to save them.

[Albatross]

Solenoid?

[ef37a]

Solenoid?

Ha!Ha! Thought had occurred to me as well. But the current to the solenoid will need to be 'held' for the requisite time, 555 chip?

I have a similar problem in that I have a PC tower that I have upgraded from W 7 to W10 which presently resides on my living room and takes up a lot of floor space (as do the guitar amps, 2 TVs, Teac OR on an shelf unit, LP turntable and Arcam amp, speakers....)

I can put the tower in a bedroom a wall away and get cables through the wall to (forgot, mixer) and use a wireless kbd and mouse but that leaves the physical start button. I did think of a solenoid but I suppose it will be easier to trace the wires from the front panel and extend those?

WRT the Korg, if the contacts on the button can be accessed then they could be brought out to a box and a simple "hold" circuit made to effect the timed start. That though supposes the switch is a simple Normally Open type? Might be a compound of N/O and N/C. 5V C/over relays are very cheap and will energise from a USB 2.0 supply!

(with a nod to Heath Robinson)

Dave.

[BillB]

I note that the current Akai MPC range works in a similar way - a ‘soft’ button for power on/off. This does have the advantage that, if there are unsaved edits and you press the power button to turn off, it can ask if you want to save the edits. So it’s rather like closing a software application - which is effectively what it is.

[ef37a]

I note that the current Akai MPC range works in a similar way - a ‘soft’ button for power on/off. This does have the advantage that, if there are unsaved edits and you press the power button to turn off, it can ask if you want to save the edits. So it’s rather like closing a software application - which is effectively what it is.

It's plot I tell thees! Once upon a time, if I wanted to listen to Radio 3 I just turned on my receiver, a Toshiba and there it was. Now, if Freeview is on the fritz I have to go to my Fire stick...FIND Sounds, wait while it logs me in THEN shunt across from Radio fekkin' One till I get some civilized* music.

*and even that is getting harder to find. After midnight I want something relaxing not experimental "ethnic" nor something that sound like a drunk in a kitchen.

Dave (AKA "grumpy old sod)

[FrankF]

Radio One: an obvious candidate for assisted dying.

[Dashanna]

Is this such a big deal?

Yes - it is!

Partly because the only place for the KK is on the top rails of a keyboard stand three high, and behind the master keyboard - so quite a reach.

We all want to switch on and just start playing, not faff around behind things.

Yes, it does sound good - but it's very nearly gone back to the shop.
(My first one already did as paint was cracking off the panel where factory had overtightened the screws.)

I have to say that I find this annoying on my K(org)ARP Odyssey too.... but the engineer didn't find a simple way to bypass the stupid momentary power button. I have to go press the button every time I power up the studio, and it's not an easy button to get to.

Hmm... so you've had this looked at and not come up with anything. That worries me!

I know nothing of the specific equipment but this startup process might have been dictated by a foible of design?

OK, I accept that may be possible... though it's more likely a decision.

Solenoid?

Yes - thinking along that line, or JFET.

Ha!Ha! Thought had occurred to me as well. But the current to the solenoid will need to be 'held' for the requisite time, 555 chip?
...if the contacts on the button can be accessed then they could be brought out to a box and a simple "hold" circuit made to effect the timed start. That though supposes the switch is a simple Normally Open type? Might be a compound of N/O and N/C.

Thanks!
I think there would need to be a short delay before the auto hold triggers, as holding the button down (IE if I simply wired it on) and applying power doesn't work.

From KK manual:
The KingKORG has an auto power-off function.

Yes auto off is disabled, but I want to disable the manual on

.

[BillB]

Yes auto off is disabled, but I want to disable the manual on

Understood, but the conversation had ranged a little wider than that. My point is that if the on/off is effectively under software control, on a board which is likely SMD, you may have a heck of a job patching any external switching in. Certainly possible in theory, whether it is worthwhile is obviously your call. Might be a lot easier to use a stick with a hook!

[ef37a]

Yes auto off is disabled, but I want to disable the manual on

Understood, but the conversation had ranged a little wider than that. My point is that if the on/off is effectively under software control, on a board which is likely SMD, you may have a heck of a job patching any external switching in. Certainly possible in theory, whether it is worthwhile is obviously your call. Might be a lot easier to use a stick with a hook!

I guess the first job is to see how much trouble it is to just get eyes on the switch contacts? Then, if practical, wires can be attached and brought out to a microswitch in a handier place. Still have to hold it but at least getatable?

I would then see if a jfet would turn it on and if so work up a 'time hold' circuit. If a fet is no go (might not be low enough resistance) then, as mentioned, a wee relay?

Thinking about it there is no reason why such a circuit could not have been built in, it seems the device needs that startup time? Korg have simply fudged it and said "let the fekkin punter do it"!
Dave.

[Dashanna]

"let the fekkin punter do it"!

Seems like something a simple microcontroller could do - boot, wait two seconds, hold for three seconds, sleep - output to relay of jfet.

The King Korg Neo is currently in use, but if I get round to this before I get rid of it I will post results.

I had been considering a KARP Odyssey, or more likely the KARP2600. If they have this "feature" then they are probably off the list.

.

[The Elf]

I have to say that I find this annoying on my K(org)ARP Odyssey too.... but the engineer didn't find a simple way to bypass the stupid momentary power button. I have to go press the button every time I power up the studio, and it's not an easy button to get to.

Hmm... so you've had this looked at and not come up with anything. That worries me!

To be fair, the engineer's brief was simply to rid me of the hated external PSU, so he didn't make removing the momentary power switch a major aim. He looked at the possibility, but backed away.

So it may be possible (it obviously *should* be possible), but you'd need someone with the skills to look into this aspect specifically.