SW1000 as module?

[Eddy Deegan]

Welcome to the forum

I understand the desire to continue using a valued piece of legacy equipment but as years pass the balance between practicality and nostalgia shifts relentlessly towards the latter.

I never owned an SW1000 (I assume you're referring to the SW1000XG or something like it?) but a read through Martin Walker's review from 1998 portrays a card which for the time was very good indeed but which has since been overtaken.

Assuming I've got the model right I note it supports some PLG daughterboard cards. I have a couple of PLG expansions installed in my venerable Motif XS7 which I like a lot and use to this day but to be honest the prospect of creating a new set of Win 10/11 drivers for a legacy PCI soundcard without support from Yamaha is pretty unrealistic.

Even if I owned one I would be unwilling to punt money on a third party trying to implement something that would work on a modern computer. In the event they succeeded in hacking something together it could break at any time with future Windows updates and life's too short for that kind of ongoing hassle.

My recommendation would be to find something modern that you like as much as you like the SW1000 and look forwards as opposed to backwards. It's for this reason that I prefer standalone hardware devices to anything reliant on a computer. Synths I bought decades ago still sound as good as they ever did even though they are ancient history to the manufacturer.

I'd replace the SW1000 with a modern audio interface (plus a MIDI interface if the replacement doesn't have one), second-hand legacy hardware if you want 'that sound', and/or a modern synth to get similar results with a better feature set.

[Martin Walker]

Hi junkmale, and welcome to the SOS Forums from me as well

After writing the SOS review of the SW1000XG, it became the mainstay of my setup for several years, especially once I'd also purchased a Kenton Plugstation fully fitted with four PLG daughterboards! I loved the MIDI sounds of the 'Swonky', and was loathe to leave it behind (especially as I'd created quite a few of my own preset instruments along the way).

However, I have to agree with what Eddy has said. It's now 27 years since this hardware was first relelased, and while the PLG daughterboards still carry on within many an external synth/keyboard, financing drivers to let the SW1000XG live on is (while a worthy idea) not very practical, especially since this approach would probably also require periodic updates to cope with Windows 11 updates, making it an ongoing cause requiring further financing.

If you're keen on the XG MIDI synth side of things then buying a Yamaha MU100 will give you a roughly equivalent set of sounds, and can be found for typically $200 on the secondhand market, leaving any driver roblems in the dust.

Martin

[junkmale]

thanks for your thoughtful replies Martin & Eddy (and the kind welcome! )

yes of course without Yamaha's support developing drivers would be nigh on impossible, and agree with you that standalone hardware doesn't carry the same risk of obselesence that inboard cards are prone to.

(indeed I have variety of outboard synths that I love, it's only restricted finances and space that keeps me from adding to the collection!)

It just seems to me such a shame to be junking perfectly good high quality hardware for lack of a suitable driver. **

I highly rate the SW1000XG - superb sound quality, full duplex low latency audio, MIDI ins & outs, and the full range of fabulous XG sounds. If I recall the specs correctly it's the same 24MB of wavetable ROM as found in the TG300.

It was an awesome card when it was released, and is still a useful bit of great sounding kit today.

Is there anyone on here with contacts at Yamaha who might be able to float the idea of getting Win10/11 drivers for it? And perhaps suggest there might be support amongst the loyal user base to crowdfund it?
I'd rather cough up $100 bucks for a driver than spend double that on the alternative (an MU100/TG300 or the hassle of maintaining a legacy pc)

**
and don't let me get started on Microsoft's efforts to get us all to junk our existing pc's later this year. I've got three desktops and a laptop that all run everything I need them to with years of usable life left in them yet none of them are 'Win11' ready....extrapolate that across the country and there'll be millions of machines they'll basically be turning into bricks....grrrr

[Wonks]

There is now an official "Win 11 Lite" that doesn't have any hardware restrictions. https://youtu.be/HrM3xzzgawQ?si=UH6uGSCCfZxCV3mf

[Martin Walker]

There is now an official "Win 11 Lite" that doesn't have any hardware restrictions. https://youtu.be/HrM3xzzgawQ?si=UH6uGSCCfZxCV3mf

Wow - thanks for this link Wonks!

This Windows 11 LTSC version sounds just perfect for the PC musician!

[Matt Houghton]

the full range of fabulous XG sounds.

I also had a SW1KXG + Plugstation system that I parted ways with many years ago, and ^this^ is the bit I miss — the sounds and the graphical editing interface for them. Especially the sounds of some of the PLG cards. The same goes for the Creamware system I had.

Tbh, though, I'd rather see software-only versions of these things delivered than have to rely on third-party drivers for a 20+ year old PCI card that isn't supported by most motherboards today

[junkmale]

thanks for the link Wonks, looks interesting, shall set aside some time later to investigate properly

@Matt - I'm a fan of software, but there are pros & cons with that too.
as well as for the SW1K I'm keeping the XP machine alive for some cool software that is no longer supported and won't run on 64bit Win7/10.
conversely there's other stuff that I have to keep the o/s up to date for - e.g. Roland Cloud doesn't support Win7 any more.
(and there will probably be other software houses out there that will drop support for their products on discontinued o/s)

And as very good as some of my software synths are, none of them quite have the "oomph" of my hardware synths, nor the pleasure of hands-on operation

[OneWorld]

I used a SW1000XG on a Win7/32 PC for an age. though I only used the MIDI, and because it was only the MIDI, my Win10/64 saw the SW1000XG as just another MIDI Device.

I do miss the audio part of it, but I only wanted it for the XG sounds anyway and used with XG Edit, it was a wonder of a card. As many have suggested here though, time came when it was put out to pasture as it seemed an extravagance to have a PC running just to host a soundcard - well in fact a synth on a plate so to speak, brilliant piece of kit.

[OneWorld]

...........................And as very good as some of my software synths are, none of them quite have the "oomph" of my hardware synths, nor the pleasure of hands-on operation

I am constantly in a dilemma about. I started to divest myself of hardware but by way of good fortune and a kindly person on these forums and old synth came my way, one of which I had sold and replaced with software, and when I fired the old synth up,. the software equivalent was blown out the water and I sort of justify keeping my hardware now because.....it's not eating anything.......it's a joy to use........it just works..........whether this is just my imagination, the sound is fatter, cleaner, punchier........and this is a lifetime hobby that some say is an all consuming passion, well so be it, I can't play golf in my dotage because of my eyesight, but I can knock a tune out on the occasion, and that justifies indulging in kit from time to time.

I too concur with Eddy and learning to let go, and looking forward to new/replacement kit. There ae bargains to be had and I for one really like the fact that much of today's hardware can almost act as a VST, so you have a full screen editor but the immediacy of hardware

[Martin Walker]

Tbh, though, I'd rather see software-only versions of these things delivered than have to rely on third-party drivers for a 20+ year old PCI card that isn't supported by most motherboards today

Ah, that's another issue that hasn't occurred to me! Even with 64-bit drivers for Windows 10/11, an elderly PCI soundcard isn't necessarily even going to find a suitable expansion slot in a more modern motherboard.

[junkmale]

... my Win10/64 saw the SW1000XG as just another MIDI Device....

that's genius dude, and may well be the answer I've been looking for!!
top tip, thank you!

[BJG145]

If a thousand of us chipped in $100, might that do it?

Yes, if you give me $100K I’ll have a think.

(Seriously though, agree 100% with Eddy.)

[Matt Houghton]

used with XG Edit

I remember using XGWizard and XGPad in preference to XGEdit. Why my brain wants to remember details like that from nearly a quarter of a century ago but is willing to forget stuff I need to remember on a day to day basis, I don't know...

[russv99]

I own the Yamaha MU10 entry level module but I haven't used it for a long time, I use software altenatives. While there was never an official XG VST synth produced, Yamaha did release two, built into karaoke player apps. Clever people have managed to extract the VST's.
One is a full emulation of the MU10, another just provides the 'XG Lite' soundset. The Lite version has the advantage of having fuller sounds with more bass. The disadvantages are they are both 32bit and the 'MU10' doesn't like having more than one instance in use (at least on Reaper). Although not as powerful as the SW1000, it means no more messing around with cables etc, if you only want a few XG sounds.

Here's one of them, Google will find the other;
https://veg.by/en/projects/syxg50/

[Matt Houghton]

That's interesting, though it was really the actual SW1K XG sounds and control and things like the PLG150-AN daughterboard (an AN1x synth) that I really wanted porting to software. I say 'wanted' because I'm well past it now!

[cartcar]

If you want to keep your SW1000XG, the best option would be to find a small PC with a PCI slot, like an old Dell Optiplex running XP. The idea of feeding it directly is complex and risky. Another solution would be a Yamaha MU100, which offers the same sounds without fiddling. If you absolutely want hardware, a dedicated MIDI expander type enclosure could be an alternative. Otherwise, XG vsts exist, even if it is not identical.

[junkmale]

Set up a virtual machine running xp with driver for the sw1000 and some virtual midi ports...

AFAIK, virtual machines don't have direct access to the underlying hardware, they can only see the hardware that is presented to them by the host computer via the virtualisation software. **

In other words, if you can't get a device working on the host o/s it's highly unlikely that a VM will.

I haven't tried this experimentally, not least because I suspect that there would be some pretty horrible latency issues with running any kind of a DAW in a VM.

on a side note - I recently had some fun and games getting a VM up on my new Win10 desktop (so that I can still use some legacy graphics software).

Microsoft have dropped the Win7 builtin XP mode for Win10, which means using (in my case) Oracle Virtual Box for the VM host.

I did successfully create an XP virtual machine using my old original XP install media, but it appears that the XP activation servers have been turned off, as despite successfully connecting the VM to the internet it refused to activate.

so if you run an existing XP box for legacy hardware/software, I would be very wary about rebuilding it, as you might be reduced to trying to get an activation code over the phone.

(I didn't bother trying that for my virtual XP machine - just dug out my Win2K media and built a W2K VM instead!! )

**
things might be different in the *NIX world than the Windows world

[BJG145]

I haven't tried this experimentally, not least because I suspect that there would be some pretty horrible latency issues with running any kind of a DAW in a VM

...no, you're right, VMs are a non-starter in the music world.

[OneWorld]

I haven't tried this experimentally, not least because I suspect that there would be some pretty horrible latency issues with running any kind of a DAW in a VM

...no, you're right, VMs are a non-starter in the music world.

I tried a VM in the hope I could continue to use my Akai z8 with AK.SYS, it really was hope beyond hope, I abandoned the idea and never went back there, more chance of using a pogo stick on a tight rope.

[Martin Walker]

...more chance of using a pogo stick on a tight rope.

Oh, how I love this analogy!

[Neo-Classical Guitar Man]

there seem to be a quite a few of us still in love with our SW1000's and loath to bin quality hardware that's still working fine (I'm hanging on to a 2006 XP machine purely to keep the SW1000 alive!)

I wonder whether there might be enough of us to crowdfund a Win10/11 64bit driver?

If a thousand of us chipped in $100, might that do it?

I'd be interested to know other thoughts...

I have been keeping an eye out for any new developments, that could help combine the use of older cards, drivers and software and at the same time allow newer software etc and more RAM. So recently I stumbled across these new solutions, which allow Windows XP Pro 32-bit to use upto 128GB RAM and also Quad Core CPUs and higher. Even allows upto DirectX 11 and other more modern features). The package has recently been improved and now only needs one installer file, instead of the older multiple part version shown in the video link below.

I've not tried all this out yet, but the guy in the video links below is a certified expert at a high level, of tinkering and understanding operating systems especially XP. He is due to release his own GraniteXP package, that adds all this functionality and compaitbility to XP for free soon. It might be good to give him some encouragement and support, as he clearly is passionate about XP. If I remember correctly he also managed to get Win98 software to work in it. He also communicates with the author of the One-Core-API package, and that author is still actively working on new releases, and the project began around 2017 I think possibly earlier.

https://github.com/shorthorn-project/On ... I-Binaries (One-Core-API downloads and installation info etc)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4G8Yz0_6JQ (Windows XP - KernelX-OneCoreAPI-MOD!)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gs2V3B3hsVU (Windows XP - OneCoreAPI Multi-Core Processor Mod and GraniteXP Update!)

[OneWorld]

There is now an official "Win 11 Lite" that doesn't have any hardware restrictions. https://youtu.be/HrM3xzzgawQ?si=UH6uGSCCfZxCV3mf

Thanks for the heads up, seems just the job.

Years ago when I worked in industry and lectured at university, we were given the company/charity volume copies and life was a dream, no cludge, no MS Store and all the rest of the clap trap.