Band looking at our first portable PA

[alexis]

Hi,

Our band is looking at playing at multiple venues which will involve some new equipment (buy vs rent) since until now we've been playing/ practicing at only one venue, and it has speakers built into the wall.

I've seen many nice- looking articles on how to assess one's needs and make purchase decisions, but if anyone has an especially good reference article they'd like to pass along, or suggestions to help us ask the right questions to search well, I'm writing this to request that you please do!

I believe at least one venue is outside, and one is inside.

We are about 10 people, 4 or 5 vocalists, 3 keyboards, one acoustic drum kit, one or two electric guitars, 4 or 5 acoustic guitars (yes, arranging performances is a challenge!). We currently have a Soundcraft UI24r (I don't know how portable we're considering that), and a large black Yamaha amp between the Soundcraft and the speakers.

Thanks for any thoughts!

[Drew Stephenson]

What's the size (volume / capacity) of the venue(s) you're looking at?
You don't mention a bass player?
What kind of music?
Budget?
More questions from smarter people will doubtless follow!

[alexis]

What's the size (volume / capacity) of the venue(s) you're looking at?
You don't mention a bass player?
What kind of music?
Budget?
More questions from smarter people will doubtless follow!

Thanks, Drew, and sorry yes we have an electric bass player, whoops!

What kind of music: Chord/melody/ vocal harmony-based covers with a few originals, last gig was Carole King, The Revivalists, Americana, Chicago Color My World, Paul Stookey, two originals.

Size of venues: one indoor theater, maybe 200 seats, one outdoor with about the same (please don't take this as any inference that anywhere close to 200 people want to see us - would would be one act of several).

Cost: Pending first group discussion, probably tonight.

Thanks again!

[resistorman]

Man, that's a crowd of people! The Soundcraft should be fine, you'll likely be wanting powered speakers. QSC are a good bet, I would recommend K10-2 which are excellent and particularly clear for vocals and a KS112 sub if you are micing the drums and bass. Not cheap, but you're going to need high quality for this many vocals and guitars. For inexpensive monitors I'd go with Turbosound Milan M10.

[Dave Rowles]

I'd agree on the QSC, though RCF and Yamaha are other options.

But budget dependant. You can obviously spend more and get better/more powerful.

[Wonks]

What's your transportation situation like? I assume you probably drive a monster truck and have plenty of space for gear, but someone's got to store it and load and unload it at the house end of things (possibly by themselves), so you might want to consider that when choosing equipment.

[Sam Spoons]

I have QSC K12s and love them with an old school EV SbA750 sub, I use Yam DXR 10s for monitors. But if I was buying now (and had the budget) I'd still buy Yamaha DXR 10s for FB but I'd buy Yamaha DZR10 tops and a couple of the matching subs.

[Watchmaker]

The Soundcraft should be fine. Get a case for it.

I concur with the powered speaker route and been using JBL PRX812 forever in my gigging 4 piece rock band. Love 'em. Rugged, great sounding, reliable. What more could you want?

[ef37a]

I am one of the lesser smart people re PA these days Alexis but can I ask if you have a dedicated sound man/gal?
If not I would suggest the band try to get a member's partner interested, micing up and rigging for that many people is a job in itself let alone the actual balancing in the rooms.
They will need to be fairly strong minded...everybody has an opinion when it comes to sound repro!

Dave.

[adrian_k]

A couple of observations - you say you don’t know how portable the band might consider the Soundcraft? That seems a bit strange, for what it does it’s a pretty compact unit.

Also, you say that at these gigs you will be one of several acts. Often at these things the PA is provided by the venue, they don’t need/want bands doing a full kit changeover between acts due to the time and soundchecking issues. So, you might not need as much as you think, at least for now.

[ef37a]

A couple of observations - you say you don’t know how portable the band might consider the Soundcraft? That seems a bit strange, for what it does it’s a pretty compact unit.

Also, you say that at these gigs you will be one of several acts. Often at these things the PA is provided by the venue, they don’t need/want bands doing a full kit changeover between acts due to the time and soundchecking issues. So, you might not need as much as you think, at least for now.

Good point and with that in mind, chuck a couple of passive DI boxes into the mix.

Dave.

[ajay_m]

I would post on the Reddit live sound forum as the folks there are working professionals and would probably have some useful advice

[Murray B]

There's a lot of this that is budget dependant.

Depending on how how you mic the drum kit, I think the Soundcraft UI24 has sufficient ins and out if are looking to do traditional monitor mixes to floor wedges - you haven't mentioned anything about monitoring in the original post.

A thing to consider here is - will you ever want to do IEM mixes and do you need a spare mixer in case of failure.

I'd also echo the recommendation to get a case for the UI24 and add considering getting a dedicated rack mounted external router and a hard wired method of operating the mixer - either a laptop or a touch screen monitor compatible with the UI24.

There is a few good arguments for buying once and buying well, or not buying at all.

Buying once at a reasonable budget in the UK - tops and subs from the likes of Yahama, RCF, FBT, Electrovoice or QSC. Other recommendations for 'Prosumer' kit may be available.

If you have got money to burn then I'd say look at the RCF TT series - but the prices might bring a tear to your eye.

You have a relatively complex band set up that will need a lot of work to get right and you could spend a lot of money on a capable system. Sound checks and mixing with that amount of musicians and instruments might be a challenge even if you have someone in the band who really knows what they are doing.

What I mean by not buying anything - you could explore negotiating a price for repeat work with a good local sound company and hire an an engineer and system for your gigs - pricing this into the show. You could also include a lighting system in the hire arrangement. It might not be realistic for you, but it takes all the stress out of set up, soundcheck and leaves you able to just concentrate on the performance.

[Sam Spoons]

The RCF TT series are superb, proper professional kit. A band I worked with regularly had a pair of 15's (with lower spec RCF 18" subs) and they sounded great. But they are big, heavy and expensive.

[Murray B]

The RCF TT series are superb, proper professional kit. A band I worked with regularly had a pair of 15's (with lower spec RCF 18" subs) and they sounded great. But they are big, heavy and expensive.

There's a range of sizes and options and the 10" tops aren't significantly heavier than other manufacturers, but I definitely agree about the expensive bit.

[S2]

Another RCF vote here, I'm on my second set (not because they broke but just upgrading) and I can't find anything to complain about. Not cheap though.

The only thing I'd say is that I note you're in the USA and I don't know how available they are over there, compared to say QSC and Yamaha.

Apologies if this has been been mentioned but you don't say what you are going to put through it? Obviously makes a difference to what you need.

[awjoe]

Apologies if this has been been mentioned but you don't say what you are going to put through it? Obviously makes a difference to what you need.

If you're asking about musical sources, the OP said:

"We are about 10 people, 4 or 5 vocalists, 3 keyboards, one acoustic drum kit, one or two electric guitars, 4 or 5 acoustic guitars (yes, arranging performances is a challenge!)." (And a bass player.)

Mostly, I want a Youtube video of this. Ten people, five vocalists, five acoustic guitars? I want to see this.

[Chet Leeway]

Apologies if this has been been mentioned but you don't say what you are going to put through it? Obviously makes a difference to what you need.

If you're asking about musical sources, the OP said:

"We are about 10 people, 4 or 5 vocalists, 3 keyboards, one acoustic drum kit, one or two electric guitars, 4 or 5 acoustic guitars (yes, arranging performances is a challenge!)." (And a bass player.)

Mostly, I want a Youtube video of this. Ten people, five vocalists, five acoustic guitars? I want to see this.

Not too hard to imagine. Bruce Springsteen has about 10 persons on stage, most of whom are miked for backing vocals, 3 guitarists playing 10-15 different guitars, 2 keyboardists playing around 10 different keyboards, plus bass, drums and percussion. Actually, if arranging is a problem, just pick the 3 weakest guitarists (or strongest vocalists) and redefine them as backing vocalists.

[S2]

Apologies if this has been been mentioned but you don't say what you are going to put through it? Obviously makes a difference to what you need.

If you're asking about musical sources, the OP said:

"We are about 10 people, 4 or 5 vocalists, 3 keyboards, one acoustic drum kit, one or two electric guitars, 4 or 5 acoustic guitars (yes, arranging performances is a challenge!)." (And a bass player.)

Mostly, I want a Youtube video of this. Ten people, five vocalists, five acoustic guitars? I want to see this.

Yes but he didn’t say how much of that is going through the PA (vocalists obviously) and how much is going through independent amps. It makes a difference.

[awjoe]

Ah, sorry. Didn't understand.

[alexis]

Yes, we're just like Springsteen, next question ?

Yes awejoe, we are currently addressing the unavoidable tension between potentially competing goals of the band, specifically between the concept that anyone who wants to join can join (community outreach, the initial goal years ago, from what I can tell), and the idea that we have the potential to maybe put a product on stage that sounds acceptable for public consumption, or even pretty good, and that we should focus on that.

It's hard to do both well, of course!

[Sam Spoons]

I suspect the time will not be available but, just a thought, is it possible for a nucleus of the band to perform public gigs while running 'workshop' sessions open to all as a separate but linked activity, maybe with 2 or three showcase gigs each year for all to perform at?

[alexis]

I suspect the time will not be available but, just a thought, is it possible for a nucleus of the band to perform public gigs while running 'workshop' sessions open to all as a separate but linked activity, maybe with 2 or three showcase gigs each year for all to perform at?

That solution would satisfy many issues, thanks Sam (and, Happy Birthday once again !).

It however does unavoidably introduce some degree of divisiveness for the first time into the group, so it's got it's potential downside as well.

We've kind of started nibbling around the edges of that concept in some of our discussions ...

We live in a very small town, which is beautiful and wonderful in so many ways, but limits opportunities to play music with others.

[Chet Leeway]

I suspect the time will not be available but, just a thought, is it possible for a nucleus of the band to perform public gigs while running 'workshop' sessions open to all as a separate but linked activity, maybe with 2 or three showcase gigs each year for all to perform at?

That solution would satisfy many issues, thanks Sam (and, Happy Birthday once again !).

It however does unavoidably introduce some degree of divisiveness for the first time into the group, so it's got it's potential downside as well.

We've kind of started nibbling around the edges of that concept in some of our discussions ...

We live in a very small town, which is beautiful and wonderful in so many ways, but limits opportunities to play music with others.

The concept musical collective is worth investigating. It's a good way to accommodate differences in ability, creative input, availability, genre/style etc. while remaining a unit of some sort.

[Sam Spoons]

I suspect the time will not be available but, just a thought, is it possible for a nucleus of the band to perform public gigs while running 'workshop' sessions open to all as a separate but linked activity, maybe with 2 or three showcase gigs each year for all to perform at?

That solution would satisfy many issues, thanks Sam (and, Happy Birthday once again !).

It however does unavoidably introduce some degree of divisiveness for the first time into the group, so it's got it's potential downside as well.

We've kind of started nibbling around the edges of that concept in some of our discussions ...

We live in a very small town, which is beautiful and wonderful in so many ways, but limits opportunities to play music with others.

I agree about the divisiveness issue, I run an guitar club/open mic where everybody is welcome. While this does lead to some very 'limited' players performing I would not have it any other way. OTOH I would not invite them to play to a paying audience at the small festival I help organise, I'm sure they understand this and do not feel offended when I do ask some of the better players.