X AIR XR16 16-Input Digital Mixer

[ef37a]

Does anyone here have any experience with that Behringer mixer?

My son has just emailed me a YT demo and he is trying to convince his band to get one.

LOOKS da dogs!

Dave.

[DGL.]

They are great pieces of kit, though the slightly larger XR18 has the advantage of ultranet and an 18×18 USB audio interface.

Also look at the X32 rack now prices have gone down.

Of course the current best value is the Wing rack but that is £1,145
https://www.thomann.de/gb/behringer_wing_rack.htm

[The Elf]

As above, I'd definitely suggest the XR18 being the significantly better option. For the extra money it has some important advantages over the XR16, including the multi-track audio interface and Ultranet for adding personal mixers. I wouldn't want to be without those features.

[ef37a]

Thank you each, the band is pretty strapped and the extra E150 or so will make it even harder to convince them.

Their line up might help decide?
Lead singer, also plays lead guitar.
Bass/backing vocal (son) Also does an odd set with acoustic guitar (a Turner).
Drums, very small "jazz" kit and I cannot see them amping those any time soon? Drummer sings as well.
They have just co-opted a lady flute player.

Speakers are Alto 310s and only mics and lead guitar go through them.

What, by the way is an "Ultranet"?

Dave.

[shufflebeat]

Save your premise for an extra few weeks and get the xr18, your future self will thank you.

[ef37a]

Save your premise for an extra few weeks and get the xr18, your future self will thank you.

Not for me Shuffs, I need facts to convince son and for him to persuade the French guys.

AFAICT the extra port mainly gives individual monitor mixes? These are seasoned musicians who all read well and have been playing together for nearly two years, I doubt they have need of such new fangled ideas!

Dave.

[shufflebeat]

Do they ever record themselves?

[ef37a]

Do they ever record themselves?

Indeed they do and son has a MOTU M4 and an A&H ZED 10 for the purpose plus a Tascam 4 track hand held recorder. The lead signer also has a hand held as well, don't know the brand.
Their main problem with recording is a suitable venue. Other band members have proposed going to a "semi-pro" studio. Son is not so keen.

Dave.

[Music Wolf]

Another vote for the XR18. In fact 2 votes, since I own a pair.

The fact that it is also an 18x18 interface makes it worth the extra money. I routinely make multi-track recordings of my bands live and at rehearsal, which is great for home practice or for syncing with mobile phone footage from gigs.

'Ultranet' is a way of sending digital audio to a personal monitor mixer, using an ethernet cable, so that each performer can set their own stereo monitor mix without tying up any of the 6 aux busses.

[shufflebeat]

Do they ever record themselves?

Indeed they do and son has a MOTU M4 and an A&H ZED 10 for the purpose plus a Tascam 4 track hand held recorder. The lead signer also has a hand held as well, don't know the brand.
Their main problem with recording is a suitable venue. Other band members have proposed going to a "semi-pro" studio. Son is not so keen.

Dave.

Point taken, but recommendation still stands. If there’s an extra button on a gadget I generally find a use for it eventually.

[S2]

I'm going to buck the trend slightly and say that I wouldn't recommend the XR18 in general and especially in your son's circumstances. We have one in our band which has been a source of endless problems that I've mentioned on another thread. However we may have been unlucky, as others on here presumably have never had any issues with it.

Secondly though and probably more importantly, far be it from me to interfere in your son's band, but I would question what is he hoping to gain from the purchase? With only three vox and guitar (and maybe the flute) going through through it and no need for monitor mixes, the XR18 (or XR16) is wildly over specified for them and I seriously doubt that they'll notice any improvement from the A&H Zed 10 (assuming that's what they use).

If they are getting gigs with the current setup then I doubt they'll get more with an XR16/18 and if they're not then I don't think an XR16/18 is the answer. They'd also need to budget for a tablet to run the thing as well.

Personally I'd save the money at the moment.

[The Elf]

It's a rare band that wouldn't like a live recording from their mixer. To be able to do that in multi-track would be worth the extra outlay alone, IMHO. But if that's of no interest, and they can't see any future for personal monitor mixers, then the XR16 would be fine.

But from what you say I'd begin to question why the XR16 at all. If their needs are as simple as you say, then having a mixer without physical controls, requiring a laptop, or tablet to use, might not go down well.

[ef37a]

"Secondly though and probably more importantly, far be it from me to interfere in your son's band, but I would question what is he hoping to gain from the purchase? With only three vox and guitar (and maybe the flute) going through through it and no need for monitor mixes, the XR18 (or XR16) is wildly over specified for them and I seriously doubt that they'll notice any improvement from the A&H Zed 10 (assuming that's what they use)."

The other members of the band would LIKE Steve to "donate his mixer to the cause" but he does not want that. The A&H is part of his recording rig at his flat and in any case the band have two of his mics "on loan" and **** knows how many of his cables!

One of the main reasons the ZED was so useful was the tunable mid EQ. The lead guitarists wanted to use an acoustic for some songs and they could only control feedback by 'notching' it out. Not many budget mixers have tunable mids. The ZED 10 also only has just enough mic inputs. Well, not enough if they want to amp the flute.

But yes, I am a bit surprised son wants this mixer. The drummer is "gadget mad"! Wants a foldback speaker and would love to play with that X16. Steve not so much I thought. Must try to get him on Skype.

Dave.

[James Perrett]

Other band members have proposed going to a "semi-pro" studio. Son is not so keen.

It might well be worth convincing your son to go to the studio. Whatever happens, it will be a good learning experience - either of how to do things or how not to do things...

Chances are the results will be far better than your son can obtain himself - mainly because your son won't have to worry about recording and playing at the same time (and believe me, as an engineer who also plays, I much prefer concentrating on playing when I'm doing a session as a player)

[ef37a]

Other band members have proposed going to a "semi-pro" studio. Son is not so keen.

It might well be worth convincing your son to go to the studio. Whatever happens, it will be a good learning experience - either of how to do things or how not to do things...

Chances are the results will be far better than your son can obtain himself - mainly because your son won't have to worry about recording and playing at the same time (and believe me, as an engineer who also plays, I much prefer concentrating on playing when I'm doing a session as a player)

Ordinarily and 99% of the time I would agree with you James and have said as much to people on forums. But these were bands asking about recording equipment (and thinking of just diving in with a dozen mics and tracks knowing FA) Son has what I would aver is some very decent kit and has made some good recordings in the past. But the main objection is "personalities". Steve is pretty sure the other musicians won't be disciplined enough to bang out 1/2 dozen good songs? They will he feels leave the choice of running order open, argue about it in the studio and waste his money.

Dave.

[Drew Stephenson]

Sounds like standard band behaviour...

Going back to the mixer, the XR16 feels like a bad compromise. If they want to do some proper multitrack recording then the 18 is a better option, otherwise just get another analogue mixer and safe themselves the expense and the learning curve.

[The Elf]

Going back to the mixer, the XR16 feels like a bad compromise. If they want to do some proper multitrack recording then the 18 is a better option, otherwise just get another analogue mixer and save themselves the expense and the learning curve.

+1 ...and the laptop/tablet.

[BigRedX]

Sounds like standard band behaviour...

I must be lucky in that I've never been a band that disorganised. TBH I don't think I would stand for it. Every time I've been in the studio with a band we've had a plan and stuck to it. In the days when money was tight not sticking to the plan would almost certainly mean that we would run out of funds before we'd finished and come away with nothing.

In the early 80s, I once booked 3 hours at a local 16 track studio to record one song to go on a compilation album. As there were only two of us every overdub had to be meticulously planned to give us roughly 2 hours for tracking, 30 minutes for mixing and 30 minutes to cover any problems. We finished with just enough time to make two cassette copies of the master tape, which was just as well as the album never materialised and the 1/4" master disappeared along with the record label, with our cassettes being the only things that survived.

[Drew Stephenson]

I have been in bands that disorganised, but I've never stayed in them.

[ef37a]

I have been in bands that disorganised, but I've never stayed in them.

Well do remember, two of them ARE French! He does get exasperated by them from time to time but he enjoys sorting the music parts and playing bass, is a nice change for him. He I think employs his classical guitar technique.

Dave.

[shufflebeat]

The lead guitarists wanted to use an acoustic for some songs and they could only control feedback by 'notching' it out. Not many budget mixers have tunable mids.

That’s really a job for a separate unit, probably a pedal. Doesn’t have to be expensive, the Behringer adi21 isn’t the worst thing they’ve ever done and I keep one handy for emergencies:

https://www.gear4music.com/Guitar-and-B ... Brand%20B2

[ef37a]

The lead guitarists wanted to use an acoustic for some songs and they could only control feedback by 'notching' it out. Not many budget mixers have tunable mids.

That’s really a job for a separate unit, probably a pedal. Doesn’t have to be expensive, the Behringer adi21 isn’t the worst thing they’ve ever done and I keep one handy for emergencies:

https://www.gear4music.com/Guitar-and-B ... Brand%20B2

Ah but you see, the gitist's clamp on mic needs full 48V phantom power. I'll have a look at that Behrry but I doubt it is spooked?

OK, well it could I suppose go in an FX loop on a more basic mixer but then it means more dangly bits, rats...
Dave.

[shufflebeat]

Ah but you see, the gitist's clamp on mic needs full 48V phantom power. I'll have a look at that Behrry but I doubt it is spooked?

OK, well it could I suppose go in an FX loop on a more basic mixer but then it means more dangly bits, rats...
Dave.

Abort! Abort!

Mics on guitars are a whole ‘nother bag of worms. Many great solutions are available but none that I know of on a tight budget.

Mind you, the Behringer on an insert would probably work a treat if the levels matched up, never tried it.

[ef37a]

Ah but you see, the gitist's clamp on mic needs full 48V phantom power. I'll have a look at that Behrry but I doubt it is spooked?

OK, well it could I suppose go in an FX loop on a more basic mixer but then it means more dangly bits, rats...
Dave.

Abort! Abort!

Mics on guitars are a whole ‘nother bag of worms. Many great solutions are available but none that I know of on a tight budget.

Mind you, the Behringer on an insert would probably work a treat if the levels matched up, never tried it.

https://www.guitarfromspain.com/en/pick ... phone.html

That ^ I think is the microphone and son said it worked pretty well through the A&H properly "notched". They are far from a loud band so not trying to match "Hendrix" levels with an acoustic!

I did find them a Soundcraft analogue mixer at about the same money as the zed with tunable mids but six IIRC, mic inputs which would just about do them but no future proofing.

Dave.

[James Perrett]

That ^ I think is the microphone and son said it worked pretty well through the A&H properly "notched". They are far from a loud band so not trying to match "Hendrix" levels with an acoustic!

That mic looks similar to the Audio Technica Pro70 that I use on my acoustic. I've not done many gigs with it, but any feedback I've encountered has been at the bass end and can be easily removed by rolling off the bass. The bass roll-off switch on the mic isn't really drastic enough for most uses.