Boss VG-800

[arkieboy]

https://www.boss.info/global/products/vg-800/

As indicated by the name, Boss have focussed this product on guitars, essentially putting the guitar emulation on the front of a GT-1000CORE, and including a couple of the traditional VG synth-like models such as the GR-300, Crystal and Vio, very much like the old VG-99. There are a couple of newish amp models based on MDP, but the amp and FX list looks pretty familiar Boss modelling stuff.

There is a really useful facility that allows you to send stereo audio from one GK-Serial unit to another, selectable per patch, so if you had one of these and a GM-800 you could send the audio from your acoustic guitar patch down to the GM-800 to be output to the FoH with other full range signals, separate them from your electric guitar based signals which would come out of the VG-800 outputs. Routing doesn't seem to be completely flexible - all the signal or none of the signal gets sent - but I've only skimmed the manual as of yet. Its also quite a bit smaller than the SY-1000.

Where features are common with the SY-1000 they are often usefully but incrementally improved, but we've lost the dynamic synth, which IMO was the standout feature of that unit. I now expect a SY-800 with those missing features at some point.

[BigRedX]

This could have been the device I was waiting for...

However MIDI on mini jacks and power via an external PSU means it's not really gig-proof.

[arkieboy]

This could have been the device I was waiting for...

However MIDI on mini jacks and power via an external PSU means it's not really gig-proof.

Power - this definitely needs to be installed on a pedalboard. It's the same external PSU as the SY-1000 and GM-800, current draw is slightly less than either and I've been gigging my board with these on just fine - but don't take my word for it, Steve Vai had both of those units installed on a rack shelf for his tour with Adrian Belew.

The MIDI on minijack though is interesting - its a relatively well established format I understand, but I'd want angled jacks and I'd mount a pedal just to the left to give them some protection.

[Wonks]

BRX, are you saying that 99.5% of all guitar pedals can't be gigged because they've got external power supplies (unless on batteries which is itself a risk)?

It's less than ideal, but you should be able to power it from a pedalboard power supply, which means you can fix everything down to the pedalboard including the power cables.

Having MIDI on mini jacks I can understand to help keep the size down, though it's not consistent with the GM 800 having 5-pin MIDI sockets. Again, when on a pedalboard, you can tie down the cables and they're unlikely to get pulled.

[2pods]

I'll probably have one.
Do we know how much they want for it, and availability ?

[2pods]

Scratch that.

£599 and 7th February..........or not, remembering the SY1000 availability.

[BigRedX]

Individual pedals with those flimsy power connectors are generally OK because the whole lot will be minted on a pedalboard and everything cable-tied or taped into place. However, something like the VG-800 is essentially a pedal board in its own right. I would hope to be able to use it without any other devices in the signal chain and one of the attractions is the small on-stage footprint. As soon as I have to mount it on a board to accommodate a PSU and conversion cables for MIDI it starts to take up too much room.

Fitting to sort of cable I would want to be using for MIDI to mini-jacks is a complete non-starter, so either I need to have conversion cables or long runs of suitably skinny cable neither of which are ideal in the typical gigging environment.

I currently use a Helix Floor for all my signal processing and that is a proper piece of professional equipment. IEC mains connectors and MIDI on DIN sockets. But occasionally it's a bit too large. At a recent gig I was wedged between my pedal and the headlining act's kick drum. Anything that allows me a bit more floor space is a bonus.

[The Elf]

This could have been the device I was waiting for...

However MIDI on mini jacks and power via an external PSU means it's not really gig-proof.

Two of the scourges of our time. I agree.

[Music Wolf]

Scratch that.

£599 and 7th February..........or not, remembering the SY1000 availability.

In stock according to G4M website https://www.gear4music.com/Guitar-and-B ... FGEALw_wcB

[Wonks]

Scratch that.

£599 and 7th February..........or not, remembering the SY1000 availability.

In stock according to G4M website https://www.gear4music.com/Guitar-and-B ... FGEALw_wcB

No, that's the GM 800. The new one is the VG 800.

[Wonks]

This could have been the device I was waiting for...

However MIDI on mini jacks and power via an external PSU means it's not really gig-proof.

Two of the scourges of our time. I agree.

External PSUs are normal for guitar pedals, otherwise they'd be three times the size if they were all mains powered. Imagine if all your guitar pedals were as big as a Boss CE-1! I agree they shouldn't have them for all but the smallest of keyboards, but for all but the larger multi FX pedals, they make sense.

The VG 800 is a pretty small pedal. 173mm x 135mm x 65mm. Nothing like the size of Helix (or even my more compact Tone Master Pro). Pretty much the same size as a Line 6 HX Stomp, (which also has an external PSU).

With it's numerous inputs for expression pedals and switches (and most users will want at least one expression pedal and maybe a couple of extra switches), it really is designed to go on a pedalboard rather than just sit on the floor on its own (though obviously you can use it that way). And once you attach it to a pedalboard (which could be significantly smaller than a Line 6 Helix LT), you've got a solid set up.

I'd prefer 5-pin MIDI sockets on the VG 800, but you can still run mini jacks to fixed 5-pin socket connections on the pedalboard, so you're using standard MIDI DIN cables off to other equipment.

[2pods]

Is there any point in keeping my newish GP-10 and GK3 ?

I have a GM800 and GK5, along with the converter box (which i may keep, in case i ever buy a used SY1000....again !)

That would go towards the VG800 and a GK5B

[arkieboy]

For people interested in a feature by feature dissection of the manual and what they think of it, there's lots of detail on this thread https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=38100

The 'essentially a GT1000CORE + guitar modelling' is accurate, but there are sacrifices - a few less blocks (but a bit more flexibility of choice) and the more expensive effect options have gone so no dedicated shimmer reverb, no Echorec or Space Echo emulation (boooo!) and the modulation effects are more generic and less characterful. Plus the sampling rate is dropped from 96kHz to 48kHz, but it retains 32 bit floating point processing.

[arkieboy]

Is there any point in keeping my newish GP-10 and GK3 ?

I have a GM800 and GK5, along with the converter box (which i may keep, in case i ever buy a used SY1000....again !)

That would go towards the VG800 and a GK5B

I think you would notice a bump in quality with the VG-800 over the GP10. Plus both units would work well together.

[2pods]

I'll get on it tomorrow

[Music Wolf]

Scratch that.

£599 and 7th February..........or not, remembering the SY1000 availability.

In stock according to G4M website https://www.gear4music.com/Guitar-and-B ... FGEALw_wcB

No, that's the GM 800. The new one is the VG 800.

Yes, my bad. It seems that is Feb when stores are expecting stock of the VG.

At first glance it looks seems to be a sort of combination Variax Guitar + Helix but with the advantage that you can mount the pickup to a guitar of your choice and all of the processing is being done in the floor unit (the Variax was very heavy due to the onboard electronics).

I'd be interested to try one, but I'm not getting too excited. I used to own a James Tyler Variax, but I just didn't like the emulated sounds.

[Tommy Dahlman]

MIDI on mini jacks has a built in potential for ground loops.
Old school 5 pin MIDI uses optocouplers for galvanic isolation.
A lot of hum problems in systems using mini jacks and/or USB MIDI wouldn't exist
if they had taken that into account when creating the new "standards".
There are solutions, like isolation transformers.
But I think it is a pity that they've changed an existing, working standard and replaced it
with an inferior solution. Just to save a small amount of space.

[Wonks]

Opto-isolation is still a part of the MIDI specification, it’s just the physical connection that’s changed. Just because there’s a sleeve/shield connection on the jack doesn’t mean it has to be directly connected to the system grounds at both ends, in just the same way that a 5-pin MIDI cable has a screen connection pin at both ends.

And what may seem a small amount of space to you for a DIN socket is a much larger internal space to a product designer. If there’s the space for them, then fine use DINs (especially on a keyboard), but the designer and marketing people won’t want to go up a package size just to fit two DIN sockets when they can fit two 3.5mm TRS jack sockets.

[Tommy Dahlman]

Opto-isolation is still a part of the MIDI specification, it’s just the physical connection that’s changed. Just because there’s a sleeve/shield connection on the jack doesn’t mean it has to be directly connected to the system grounds at both ends, in just the same way that a 5-pin MIDI cable has a screen connection pin at both ends.

And what may seem a small amount of space to you for a DIN socket is a much larger internal space to a product designer. If there’s the space for them, then fine use DINs (especially on a keyboard), but the designer and marketing people won’t want to go up a package size just to fit two DIN sockets when they can fit two 3.5mm TRS jack sockets.

Yes of course, but not all manufacturers implement that.
Rhett Shull made a video about the build of his new pedal board, made by professionals:
https://youtu.be/pjk62wmHTTY?feature=shared
According to them pedals by companies like Chase Bliss and Strymon need isolation boxes,
otherwise there is a potential for ground loops.
I don't know if this applies to Roland/Boss, but I wanted to raise the issue,
since it seems to be a common problem.
And not only on guitar pedals, but also on modern synths.
Especially if you use an old school audio output together with USB MIDI.
I've been using MIDI since it was first released
and I have never had any problems whith ground loops caused by 5 pin DIN MIDI.
Just saying.

[Wonks]

USB has its own standards, and just because it's used for carrying MIDI messages doesn't make it a special case. But yes, it's definitely a potential cause of ground loops when used with unbalanced cables (and even some balanced ones).

But if a manufacturer doesn't correctly implement the MIDI standard by not incorporating opto isolation (on at least the receiving circuit), then it's not fit for purpose and I'd get my money back. Life is too short to have to put up with crap designs.

[tommyomatic]

I would like to share my experience using the VG-800. I just got mine last Friday (02/28/25). The acoustic guitar sounds have a very loud hiss/white-noise on the background. Seems like the processor needs to boost a high shelf eq way too much to get the sound of the instrument; this increases the noise floor way too much and the patch becomes useless for any type of professional recording.
I've submitted a support request, but my experience with Roland/Boss support haven't been successful in the past...

[arkieboy]

I would like to share my experience using the VG-800. I just got mine last Friday (02/28/25). The acoustic guitar sounds have a very loud hiss/white-noise on the background. Seems like the processor needs to boost a high shelf eq way too much to get the sound of the instrument; this increases the noise floor way too much and the patch becomes useless for any type of professional recording.
I've submitted a support request, but my experience with Roland/Boss support haven't been successful in the past...

I haven't got mine yet - but seen nothing like those sorts of comments on the VG-800 threads of VGuitar forums. Might be worth visiting there and posting a question.

Just checking, are you using a Ghost piezo guitar?

[Stratman57]

I have one, and haven't noticed any excessive hiss/background noise on the acoustic guitar emulations. I have noticed some background noise on some of the presets, which have hi-gain amps in the signal flow.

I opened an initial patch in Tone Studio, changed the default amps to transparent and cycled through all the acoustic guitar variations 6 string and 12 string without any background noise. One other thing to check is whether the guitar input is turned on in the patch as well as the GK-5 input.

I'm running out of the VG-800 into a GX-10, (effects only) then into the return on a Boss Katana.

Have you updated the firmware?

Regards, Simon.

[arkieboy]

Mine arrived today and I have it temporarily plumbed in alongside my SY-1000 and GM-800 and noodled with it over my lunch hour.

Unboxing - good grief it's small! You only get the quick start manual, but if you're a VGuitar veteran you won't need it.

Once I had selected the correct kind of pickup, scale length, set up the pickup distances and string levels everything was quiet and how you would expect from a modern piece of Boss gear. Nothing unusual in the setup here, pretty much the same as was since VG-99. As I'm transferring the pickup-to-bridge lengths from the SY to the VG, I'm kind of missing the bigger, higher res screen on the SY, but I hardly ever program the SY from the unit anyway. For all its slightly laggy behaviour, Boss Tone Studio is a blessing.

Comparing to the SY-1000, the acoustic guitars sound more hifi and believable - they weren't bad on the SY, and that was a step up from the VG99, but I fancy everything is more pristine, and some of the artefacts from having flappier strings on an electric guitar aren't as noticeable on the VG-800.

I've hardly ever used the modelled electric guitars, but the amp models sound and feel more organic. I'm a big user of the maximum model - dialling in this using the same settings as on my SY gave me what is definitely the same amp, but it sounded less digital and felt satisfyingly more squishy. I'm not sure anyone will notice at a gig, but I sure will notice it when playing.

Synths: the GR-300 does what it says on the tin, again I think it's a bit more hifi than on the SY, and there's a nice patch that shows it can be pressed into service as a string synth. The 'solo synth' model is, I think, the same as you got on the VG-88 and VG-99 that Allan Holdsworth used, and I'm happy to have that back, but for my current purposes I would have preferred something more resembling the SY-1 or SY-200. Vio, crystal, organ are all present and correct - a more hifi crystal is really welcome because that model is all about top end, but my main use for both the VIO and crystal models is to layer with the SY dynamic synth for D-50-like textures. And there's no dynamic synth.

As to pitch-to-midi, reports from VGuitar forums is that it is the revised GM-800 algorithm so it should be stable and snappy playing parts into your DAW.

So conclusions: if you've ever fancied dipping your toe in VGuitar then this is as good as we've ever had. If you have an older unit like the V88, V99 or GP-10 then it's going to be an appreciable upgrade.

If you have a SY-1000 then it's a bit more nuanced. The dynamic synth in the SY-1000 is inspirational in ways that pitch recognition guitar synths can't match. But for me, there are compromises about the SY-1000 that the VG-800 seems to fix in a live setting, and for guitar amp modelling - which is what I mostly do - its noticeably better. I think its going to replace the SY on my board, and then I'm going to have to do some hard thinking about selling on the SY and realising its full value, or waiting until the (what seems even more inevitable) SY-800 comes out.

[ManFromGlass]

How were you listening to it? Through headphones? Amp? Line into computer?