Using SDCs for Church Choir / guitar

[Majd]

Hi everyone,

I’m a guitarist and will be doing a lot of recording for classical and acoustic guitar solos, as well as some upcoming concerts in a church setting that involve my small choir. I’m currently plannng my mic setup and would love to hear your insights on whether my approach is solid or if there are better alternatives within my budget.

For the choir recording in a church, my idea is to use:
• 1x Lewitt LCT 640 TS in omnidirectional mode (as a main/room mic)
• 2x Lewitt LCT 140 Air (stereo pair) for additional detail and spread

My goal is to capture a natural, open choir sound while staying within a reasonable budget. Would this be a good approach? Are there better SDCs in a similar price range that might be a better fit?

For classical/acoustic guitar recording, I assume the LCT 140 Air pair should work well, but I’d also be curious if anyone has recommendations for improving the setup.

Looking forward to your thoughts and advice!

Sincerely,
Majd

[Bob Bickerton]

To record choir or guitar, a good approach would be a pair of small diaphragm condenser microphones and depending on the acoustic of the church you may well use a pair of spaced omni mics, or a pair of cardioid mics in an ORTF array.

I'm not familiar with the Lewitt mics, but those SDCs have quite a high self-noise and your concept of using a single room mic doesn't make sense to me.

My recommendation would be a matched pair of Rode NT55 microphones. Lower Equivalent Noise Level, you get both cardioid and omni capsules, and they perform almost as well as the Neumann equivalents, plus you'll save some money

Bob

[Hugh Robjohns]

I'm not clear on whether you already own these three mics, or are planning to buy them for your planned events.

My thoughts are that the Lewitt lct140s are optimised for close recording and are a little noisy for the more distant techniques usually employed for choir recording.

And while cardioids are appropriate for recording the choir in an ORTF or NOS array, a couple of omnis can be really helpful when you need more spaciousness in the recording.

The suggested single lct640 will capture room sound, obviously, but without any stereo spaciousness, so will have the effect of narrowing your recordings and reducing spaciousness.

I second Bob's suggestion of the Rode NT55 pair, partly because they are quieter and have excellent resolution. But also because with both omni and cardioid capsules you have far greater options.

And although more expensive than the lct140s they're less than the lct640!

It might even be worth trying for a deal for a pair of NT5 cardioids and another pair of NT55s. You could then rig an OCCO array (spaced omnis outside an ORTF or other near spaced cardioid pair). This popular configuration gives a lot of flexibility and I use it a lot on choirs.

[Wonks]

Don't forget the requirement for suitably solid mic stands, especially if using a long bar on top of one for mounting the spaced omnis. Good ones aren't cheap.

[ghellquist]

I used to carry around 10-s of mics to recording symphony orchestras and choirs. Over time I learned a lesson that has helped me a lot --> keep it simple. More mics does not mean better, well except sometimes. But in order to catch an acoustic performance it, again in my experience, always starts with a stero pair. Very often it ends there.

Set up one good stereo pair of SDC microphones in the right place in the room and you will hard pressed to add things to make that better. It takes a bit of experience and listening to find a good place for the stereo pair. Nowadays I extremely seldom adds more mics than the stereo pair - it very seldom adds but it complicates things in post. Regardless if I add more mics, getting the stereo pair right is always what really matters.

My go-to nowadays is a pair of SDC setup-s in ORTF. Place it out in the audience area. My benchmark typically is to aim for all musicians being within 90 degrees angle as seen by the mic position. (It can be slightly larger but in order to keep a correct stereo image not much more). ORTF is a quite odd setup when you use typical SDC so you need to look into how to achieve it: 110 degrees and 17cm between the capsules generally takes an extra spacer on the stereo bar. Add that you need a stable microphone stand that goes up a bit in the air, the exact height depends on the actual room.

Now for some recommendations. I am lucky to have a Schoeps MSTC-64 and cannot say enough good things about that mic (current model is called MSTC-74). There is a budget priced alternative in the Superlux S502 (check Thomann.de). As a budget priced mic it can have quality issues but using a good reseller will take the mic back and replace it if that happens. Alternatively you can use about any SDC mic pair and a stereo bar + a few spacers. As for stand I nowadays like to travel extremely light, so most often it is a Manfrotto Nano stand (5001B). It reallly isnt high enough but works well enough for most occasions. For recorder, again keeping it light, a Zoom F3 running on rechargeable AA batteries (or sometime the expensive but good Lithium onetimes).

So my experience says to start simple: learn how to place your preferred stereo pair in the room depending on the music and performers. Once you master this you can go on and perhaps add extra microphones.

[Hugh Robjohns]

Good advice.

And envious of your MSTC...

[Bob Bickerton]

You could then rig an OCCO array (spaced omnis outside an ORTF or other near spaced cardioid pair).

OCCO Eh?

I like that descriptive........ can we adopt it into the technical lexicon?

Bob

[Hugh Robjohns]

It seems pretty well established, especially in America.

There are variations on the theme, but the most common uses 66cm spaced omnis either side of an ORTF array, all on the same bar. (I use the Manfrotto 154b mic bar with an extra pair of mounts).

The idea here is to place to optimise the ORTF which is the primary array, then blend in the omnis if needed for room sound and low end as required.

In public concerts the omnis also give a nice natural applause sound instead of the coloured sound you get on the back of the cardioids.

The other defined variant is the Faulkner Phased array which has 67cm spaced omnis with 41cm spaced cardioids on the inside. All four mics are set 45 degrees left/right so the two pairs have a 90 degree mutual angle.

The spacing and angling of the mics is critical because their phase relationships are claimed to interact in a way which enhances the focus and reach of the array. So, all four mics are used at a similar level (although the pair balances can be tweaked to optimise the effect).

Other options include using NOS, DIN, or Gerzon for the inner cardioids, depending on the required character, room acoustic, and ensemble layout.

[Bob Bickerton]

Indeed, it’s just I hadn’t seen the OCCO as a descriptive before.

I often use the 66cm A/B spacing of the omnis with ORTF.

K&M used to make 600mm bar with slots, that was reasonably priced, perhaps now superseded by the 23560-300-55 @ 850mm.

Bob