Les Paul purchasing advice for a Strat player

[Mick C]

I’ve been playing a Strat Plus fitted with Lace Sensors (the silver ones) for over 30 years but I’m thinking of getting a Les Paul for two reasons.
One, cos I’m back playing live again and I think the fuller tone would suit some of the repertoire better.
Two, nostalgic reasons cos I learned on a Les Paul copy when I was a kid, and because of the live work I can justify the cost to myself.
It’d also be handy to have the different tone option of the Les Paul for recording.

But there seems to be a bewildering range of options it’s hard to know where to start. Neck profiles, pick up types, weight reduction, materials etc.

I’d never buy without trying out first but can anyone help me narrow down the field a bit?

My parameters:
I like the feel of the Strat neck. Do any LP’s have a similar feel?
Are all LP’s with nibs on the fret edges, or do some have frets without this?
Do all modern LPs come with push/pull pots, or just certain models from a certain date onwards?
Does the body lightening come with a compromise on sustain and tone?
What pickup types for the tone I’m after? Reference: Stone Roses, Charlatans, Queens of the Stone Age, Foo Fighters, Ocean Colour Scene, Biffy Clyro.

Any guidance you can offer before I start travelling around guitar shops would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

[eric7256]

Yes, there are loads of options. You haven’t mentioned whether your budget is for an Epiphone, Gibson USA or Custom Shop. They can vary very widely in quality and price.

You mentioned playing a LP copy. That was very probably very different from a real LP.

Regarding necks, the Gibson scale length is traditionally 24.75”, whereas Fenders are usually 25.5”, so a Strat isn’t usually going to feel like a Les Paul - unless you find something very unusual, I have seen one long scale LP, it was 25.5”. But that’s very rare for a LP. I think it was a custom build for someone.

Neck shapes vary a lot. Custom Shop R7, R8, R9 and R0 LPs have different neck shapes, and different fret types. Those historic LPs also have nitrocellulose finishes, which feels different from the poly finish of modern Fenders. At least some (all?) Gibson USA LPs also have nitrocellulose finishes, I don’t know about Epiphones.

Most LPs have edge bound fingerboards, but Gibson USA have produced some without neck binding, I forget which. Tribute? Gary Moore Signature?

No, modern LPs don’t all come with push/pull pots. I think the recent Gibson USA Classics do (although not the LP Classic from the 1990s, which has the same name but is a very different guitar from today’s LP Classic). But the Gibson USA LP Standards of today (that I’ve seen) don’t have push/pull pots.

Custom Shop reissues of historic LPs don’t have push/pull pots, because they are historic reissues. But some Custom Shop LPs do, like the LP Axcess.

If you found a LP you really liked, but it didn’t have coil splitting etc options, you could of course modify it. You’d need to replace the pots and pickups for ones with 4 conductor cable, and be handy with a soldering iron. Or know someone who can do it for you.

The pickups on the Custom Shop reissues are not wax potted, again for historical accuracy. The tone, especially at high gain/volume, is different from a modern pickup, but the absence of wax potting does make microphonic feedback more likely.

Getting the tones you want from a LP requires the right amp and settings (or the right profile or model if you use a digital imitation of a valve amp and cab). The amp/speakers are hugely important for the rock guitar tones you’re after, so it’s not just the pickups. Potted/unpotted, ceramic magnets/alnico magnets, 4 or 2 conductor cable, covered or exposed bobbins, there are so many options.

I really don’t think there’s any substitute for visiting guitar shops that have LPs and trying out lots of them. Even ones that might be above your budget, so you can make comparisons.

I haven’t yet mentioned a fourth source of LPs - Gibson’s Murphy Lab. Artificial aging is a controversial issue amongst guitarists, but if you want a LP that looks and feels like a real ‘59 ‘burst, and can afford the price tag, the Murphy Lab reissues are worth considering. I say that having played a genuine 1959 sunburst LP.

Hope that helps. Have fun visiting guitar shops and trying out lots of LPs!

[Sam Spoons]

Wonky and Zen will, Im sure, be along shortly with 'proper' accurate answers but to be going on with here are my thoughts.

Strat necks vary as do LP necks so you can only find out if the neck suits you by trying them (good point above about scale length but going up one gauge on the LP will bring the string tension close to being the same).

LP necks are, mostly bound and some have the binding shaped to cover the fret ends, others have the fret tang trimmed so the fret extends over the binding. This is, I think, more to do with when it was built than the model.

I don't know about modern LPs and push/pull pots but I have toggle switches on my '75 LP Custom and, while the 'out of phase' option is nice sometimes I find the coil tap pretty much useless.

Likewise I donlt know about body lightening and sustane, I haven't played many modern LPs

You'll be looking at humbuckers for those sounds and while pickups vary it's relatively subtle but I suspect most of those players will be using something fairly high gain.

It's worth considering the weight of a LP, most are heavier than a typical Strat and not as comfortable to hold/play. Also it's not too hard to add enough low mids to get a fatter sound from a Strat, the EC mid/tone boost circuit did just that and I have both my Strats wired so I can put the bridge and middle (or bridge and neck on the two pickup P90 bitsa) pickups in series which has a similar effect. Doing that may get you close enough to avoid the need for inter song guitar swapping.

[Wonks]

I have three LPs and three Strats.

One of the Strats has a neck I shaped myself to give it a mild V shape (which is now pretty much a copy of my Dave Gilmour Strat), the other has a pretty standard modern 'C' shape. The reshaped neck was a bit more of a chunkier C shape before I attacked it.

My LP necks are all pretty similar, more late 59/60 shape than the bigger necks of the earlier ones, though the oldest, the 1998 Jimmy Page model one with all the pickup combinations, does have a reduced thickness around the 5th fret like Jimmy's had. The 2018 56 Gold Top has a similar feeling neck, but without the reduced thickness. The other one is a Les Paul Melody Maker model (from the early 2010s when they went for weird model names) which is a great budget model. That was bought used, and had been reliced by it's previous owner, which I think also involved some neck sanding. I bought another one on behalf of a friend of mine, and the neck on that was definitely chunkier.

I don't find swapping from a Strat to a LP or back again hard. I've got many other guitars where it takes a bit more time to acclimatise. It's up to you but I'd probably avoid LPs with a proper chunky 58-style neck shape if you want to swap between Strat and LP with ease.

These days Strats tend to be heavier than they used to be now that they've stopped using swamp ash. And Les Pauls have had standard weight relief for decades since the lighter mahoganies became either unavailable or too expensive. And yes, some have even more weight relief. But I've played Strats that are definitely heavier than my LPs.

If you look at Andertons, they'll normally give the weight of the LPs they have in stock. Some of the used ones look definitely heavier than new ones.

As for pickups, the cost of aftermarket pickups compared to the cost of the basic guitar is minimal, but most of the LPs on offer have PAF-style pickups, which is pretty much what most of the bands you mentioned would have used. These can still vary in output from 'underwound' for a cleaner sound to slightly overwound for a bit more grunt. But because pickup swapping is common these days, I'd go for the best guitar to play, and worry about the sound afterwards.

I personally don't like the ceramic pickups that some LPs come with. They are OK if you use overdrive/distortion all the time, but for me they don't do clean/subtle well, though they do coil splits better than alnico pickups having a stronger output.

One thing the more modern LPs have (apart from the full R7, R8, R9 vintage copies) is a bigger (wider) headstock. They've grown over time. I have no idea why as they don't make the headstock any stronger and it must move the tuners out slightly, increasing the string splay angle, making it even more imperative the nut is cut correctly to avoid strings sticking and tuning issues.

[eric7256]

A couple of other thoughts occur to me.

Re weight, Custom Shop reissues tend to be between 8.5lbs and 9lbs, because that’s roughly the range that the ‘50s LPs were in, whereas Gibson USA LPs tend to be heavier, often 9lbs - 10lbs or more, though you can find some Gibson USA LPs that are around 8.5lbs, less if it’s a model with weight relief.

Yes, good point about Andertons website as someone else mentioned, they show you the weight for each LP.

I’ve seen some ‘70s Strats that are around 10lbs or more, and Norlin era Gibsons that are just as heavy. Back in the ‘70s the conventional wisdom was often that a heavier guitar produces more sustain. I don’t think that’s true though, and I don’t think the manufacturers do either these days. My favourite LP is 8.5lbs.

About the binding covering the fret ends or nibs - I think if a Gibson has an edge bound neck then the fret ends would definitely have been covered by those nibs when the guitar was new. The reason you see some Gibsons with edge binding but the fret ends not being covered by the binding is because the guitar has had a refret. It’s possible for a luthier to refret a Gibson and preserve those edge nibs, but it’s a lot more work, takes longer and costs more, so most people don’t bother.

Some people claim they can hear a difference between a guitar finished in nitrocellulose and one with a poly finish, I’m not sure I can.

About scale length and string tension, I have a very useful free app on my phone that’s based upon D’Addario’s published data. You input the scale length, pitch, and gauge, it tells you the string tension in lbs (pounds). You can then change the scale length and see exactly how the tension changes. You can then try changing the gauge as well until the app shows you a string tension of the same lbs number, or close. It’s so useful if you use different guitars or different tunings. It’s free from the Google and Apple phone app stores.

As someone else commented, at the same pitch and gauge, the strings on the longer scale length guitar will feel tighter.

[Mick C]

Wow! Thanks guys for the detailed responses. That’s a big help.
Someone asked about budget and I’m looking at £1,500 to £2,000 max. Gibson USA or custom Shop I guess depends on the guitar and price, but I’m not looking for an Epiphone.

[eric7256]

Another thought: you can get more guitar for your money if you buy second hand, as long as you know what to check for, and are patient with looking round (and are sensibly cautious about buying online).

I’d make sure the guitar doesn’t have a repaired headstock break, make sure the neck is true and the truss rod works. I’d also pay attention to the condition of the frets. If it’s been heavily played it might be close to needing a refret, which could be awkward unless you know someone nearby who can do it quickly.

As you’ve been playing guitar a long time you’ll probably know what to check for.

Happy hunting!

[Sam Spoons]

A well repaired neck break may not be a good reason not to buy a used LP but it will devalue the guitar so buy cheap because you'll have to sell it cheap should you need to sell it further down the line.

I've avoided this problem with my LP, which has had a neck repair, by keeping it and leaving the selling to my kids after I'm gone

[Wonks]

£1500-£2000 isn't going to get you a full new LP standard, so if you want one, then you'll need to go with used.

This is what that money will get you new/used in Andertons.

https://www.andertons.co.uk/browse/guit ... =1500-2000

The Studios give you the LP sound and feel without some of the extras like body binding (the necks are bound now, but they used to be unbound when the studios first came out).

The 'faded' models can be very good value. They have a satin finish which can be improved in looks (IMO) by polishing with car buffing compounds like T-cut (medium) and then Meguiars ScratchX 2.0 (fine) to get a near-gloss look which looks much more like an older nitro finish. Natural finish mahogany back rather than stained a dark red. No extra weight relief though, so on the heavier side at around 9.5lbs (I once had a 13lb Vintage LP copy and that was heavy!). You'll probably want a 60s model for slimmer neck and which have 60s style Gibson knobs which look bad on a LP. But replacements back to standard top hat knobs are cheap.

[Random Guitarist]

Does it have to be a 'real' Les Paul?

There are some excellent single cuts out there which will give you the same kind of bang for less bucks.

[eric7256]

A well repaired neck break may not be a good reason not to buy a used LP but it will devalue the guitar so buy cheap because you'll have to sell it cheap should you need to sell it further down the line.

I've avoided this problem with my LP, which has had a neck repair, by keeping it and leaving the selling to my kids after I'm gone

Good point that a Gibson with a repaired headstock should fetch a lower price, and it’s certainly the case that a well repaired headstock could be perfectly ok. I know a luthier/guitar tech who has done such repairs, I’ve seen how it was done, and repaired by this guy the headstock would be stronger than it was when new.

My difficulty though is that, from an unknown source, I couldn’t tell by appearance whether it was a quality repair, or a not very good one that’s just refinished to look good, which is why I would avoid them. But if someone is willing to take a gamble it could mean buying for a bargain price.

[Wonks]

Though not all Les Pauls with neck breaks are bargains. The Peter Green/Gary Moore LP had three neck breaks/repairs and that reportedly sold for around $2m.

[Sam Spoons]

Yeah, but without the breaks it would have fetched £3m!!!

Good point that a Gibson with a repaired headstock should fetch a lower price, and it’s certainly the case that a well repaired headstock could be perfectly ok. I know a luthier/guitar tech who has done such repairs, I’ve seen how it was done, and repaired by this guy the headstock would be stronger than it was when new.

My difficulty though is that, from an unknown source, I couldn’t tell by appearance whether it was a quality repair, or a not very good one that’s just refinished to look good, which is why I would avoid them. But if someone is willing to take a gamble it could mean buying for a bargain price.

It's definitely something to look closely at if you know it has had a repair but with a good refinish job a typical buyer would only know if the seller told them. The biggest risk would come from a poor quality repair using the wrong glue and that would likely be obvious with an equally poor refinish job.

FWIW my '75 LP Custom was professionally repaired nearly 40 years ago for the second time, not because the original repair 'failed' in use but because it suffered a second 'accident'. After all that time the cellulose lacquer has shrunk and, under a close inspection, you can see how the repair was done (and that it is still solid).

[BigRedX]

Does it have to be a 'real' Les Paul?

There are some excellent single cuts out there which will give you the same kind of bang for less bucks.

And for the same reason I wouldn't rule out an Epiphone version without trying some first. IMO the main reason to buy a new Les Paul-shaped guitar from Gibson is for the logo on the headstock. If you can live without that logo you'll probably be able to get something much better for less money.

[MarkyC]

As a recent purchaser of a Strat and Les Paul can I just say that whilst new Strats are fairly consistent, I was amazed at the difference in Les Pauls.

You are correct there is a bewildering range of options but I found even guitars with the same supposed spec varied greatly.

My honest advice is set a price limit (I got mine bang in the middle of your bracket) and then play everything you can.

I like the thinner neck so went P0 with stock burst buckers with a similar pallet to you own sonically, no fancy push pulls.

Sorry if that does not help from a technical point of view, but that was my purchasing experience......

[arkieboy]

For Gibson guitars I do think it is really important to play lots of guitars to at least work out what kind of neck works best for you.

(I'm sure there will be sniggers from the back ... but) It feels to me that Gibson are a historic company originally focussed on luthier skills who were dragged to mass manufacture kicking and screaming by Leo Fender. As such there is a lot of variation in the classic Gibson instruments which leads to the wide diversity in modern specs. Leo Fender was of course an electronics engineer first and foremost, and his approach to building guitars was much more 'controlled', which would account for less variation in specs.

[Wonks]

Oh there were certainly plenty of variations in spec back in Pre-CBS Leo Fender's time.

Some because things were hand made/sanded so you got lots of natural variation, and some because they made changes as time went on.

Don't forget that Gibson were already making loads of acoustics and jazz boxes. The solid guitars (mainly LP Standards/Customs and Jrs) Gibson made back in the 50s were a relatively small percentage of the total Gibson production figures. And they will have been easier to make than the Jazz boxes.

Again, a lot of hand production - hand sanding to shape and routing using templates that wore over time. But also they were having to move with the times and things like the neck shapes changed in response to public demand for 'faster' necks as pop/rock 'n' roll players moved away from jazz-style playing to using more string bending (and the like).