LIPA Sound Technology

[diogodasilva]

Hello guys.
I am 22. Electronic Musician, Italian, currently living in Brazil.
I have a degree in Advertising/Marketing but my real passion is music.

I currently live from it actually. Tight budget but I am happy.

I always wanted to take my audio career further and study on some audio school in the UK.

After some small research I've found out about SAE Oxford, the new HQ.
At first it seemed like a good idea. 3 years (Diploma, Degree, SAE Tonmeister) Quite expensive.. but their marketing really almost fooled me.

When I deeply searched about it the impression I have now is that almost everyone seems to have one single opinion: sae is not worth it.

Then I recently I bumped into LIPA ...
Now peoples opinions about this one is quite the opposite.

I read people saying they actually read a CV if it comes from a Surrey Tonmeister or LIPA student.

Unfortunately Surrey is not an option as I don't have enough music grades.

I haven't found any topics discussing this SAE x LIPA especifically.

I am not really new to audio.
What I want "now" is to learn as much as I can for my own use actually. I don't plan on working on a studio... But as we never know what will happen in the future, maybe I change my mind... or maybe the electronic music I make turns over and dies.. who knows? I need a course that will get deeply on the matters. not barely scratch the surface of many things (if you know what I mean)

So I would like to know from u guys what do u think about it? Time nor money are concern...
LIPA Sound Technology (3yrs) or SAE Tonmeister (3yrs) ?

Thanks a lot in advance guys!
Looking forward for your replies!

[Hugh Robjohns]

My vote would be for LIPA.

Hugh

[The Red Bladder]

Any CVs coming from SAE grads go straight into the bin here.

But the SAE lost a legal battle to call their course 'Tonmeister' as that name is registered to Surrey University and to the original Verein Deutsche Tonmeister (VDT) in Germany, of which I am a member.

If they are still trying to call their three year course 'Tonmeister' then they are disobeying a court order, as far as I am aware.

[Zukan]

Dio...........

Welcome to Sos.

[diogodasilva]

Any CVs coming from SAE grads go straight into the bin here.

But the SAE lost a legal battle to call their course 'Tonmeister' as that name is registered to Surrey University and to the original Verein Deutsche Tonmeister (VDT) in Germany, of which I am a member.

If they are still trying to call their three year course 'Tonmeister' then they are disobeying a court order, as far as I am aware.

wow didn't know that! ...
thanks for your considerations guys.. anyone has another point of view?

thanks again!

[Guest]

But the SAE lost a legal battle to call their course 'Tonmeister' as that name is registered to Surrey University and to the original Verein Deutsche Tonmeister (VDT) in Germany, of which I am a member.

If they are still trying to call their three year course 'Tonmeister' then they are disobeying a court order, as far as I am aware.

Hi there,

Unfortunately it seems that you do not have your facts correct (as it happens frequently on the internet). We are offering the "SAE-Tonmeister". This is a title registered to us and it is obviously not the same as the University of Surrey qualification.
There has never been a legal battle. Where did you get this idea from ? We are on very good terms with the VDT in Germany. As you can see here: http://www.tonmeister.de/vdt/modules.php?file=content/foerderfirmen/index# we are supporting the VDT and here: http://www.sae-alumni-convention.org/2008/index.php?p=bes&s=aus&m=b - the VDT was exhibiting at the SAE Alumni Convention last week. So, you should be more careful before making serious allegations.
Oh, regarding the bin: That may be your practice but certainly not everyone's. Please see http://uk.sae-alumni.org/index.php?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=164 for a few examples.

Best regards,

Matthias Postel
Manager SAE London

[diogodasilva]

now this is getting interesting..

the impression I have is that SAE is not "picky" enough regarding the application... all you gotta do is have the money... this can lead into some problems like students who don't even know what they're doing from the beginning... which will eventually slow down the pace of the class as it is not an individual based course.

Of course not everyone is the same. In the end you receive what you put into it.. but a more "selected" class room will help things go smooth naturally.. you don't need to be rushing for information by yourself to keep your own pace... if that was the case I would be much better off studying at home alone and visiting some friends studio...

anyway.. can't wait for some other point of views...

[Guest]

Hi diogodasilva,

It is not quite like the only thing you need is money. We do have entry requirements, e.g. A-levels for the Recording Arts degree. However, it is no secret (at least we don't make it one) that you do not need previous audio experience or musical skills. This is a difference to other providers such as LIPA or Surrey. It is well known that their entry requirements are a higher threshold and that only few students are accepted.
For the past 30+ years our concept has worked in that we manage to bring students of different levels up to a common professional standard. One key element in this is individual practical time which allows for individual progress pace.
This gives those that choose this path the opportunity to train on a wide range of equipment of professional standard. A range of equipment that - as far as I can see - is unrivalled in the UK.
At the end of the day everyone has the choice which path to follow. I would recommend you visit institutions that you consider. For you as an international student there is also the choice of other colleges we have all over the world.

Regards,

Matthias Postel
Manager SAE London

[_ Six _]

SAE is just a jolly good day out at an audio amusement park. The qualifications aren't worth the paper they're written on. I've learned more out of books and spent better money on buying myself microphones and recording systems that i can KEEP!

Sorry mate, I understand you're going to defend your course and your employer and I know one of my old classmates at SAE Dubai who is working for a big name Islamic artist but the truth is that SAE graduates are not valued in industry. My friend learned from his colleagues and by teaching himself not from the tutors. He acknowledges that.

The SAE diploma that I did was entertaining however it was very poorly organised, the staff were not very clued up and the only thing I really got out of it was a few hours with a Neve desk.... but to be fair I did pay a HUGE sum of money for that didn't I.

My personal opinion is stay away from SAE unless you're doing it for entertainment purposes only. Even then buy yourself some decent equipment and have as much entertainment you like!

LIPA and Surrey are the only decent courses in the UK worth considering if you want to WORK in professional audio and have a proper education in the principals of the science.

Please correct me if I'm wrong!

PS I'm currently doing a BEng in Electronic Engineering at a Russel Group University so please don't tell me that I don't have the technical ability or talent!

My advice. Buy yourself a Pro Tools HD rig or a Mac/Logic with the £10000+ you'd spend at SAE, subscribe to SOS and teach yourself.

[diogodasilva]

SAE is just a jolly good day out at an audio amusement park. The qualifications aren't worth the paper they're written on. I've learned more out of books and spent better money on buying myself microphones and recording systems that i can KEEP!

Sorry mate, I understand you're going to defend your course and your employer and I know one of my old classmates at SAE Dubai who is working for a big name Islamic artist but the truth is that SAE graduates are not valued in industry. My friend learned from his colleagues and by teaching himself not from the tutors. He acknowledges that.

The SAE diploma that I did was entertaining however it was very poorly organised, the staff were not very clued up and the only thing I really got out of it was a few hours with a Neve desk.... but to be fair I did pay a HUGE sum of money for that didn't I.

My personal opinion is stay away from SAE unless you're doing it for entertainment purposes only. Even then buy yourself some decent equipment and have as much entertainment you like!

LIPA and Surrey are the only decent courses in the UK worth considering if you want to WORK in professional audio and have a proper education in the principals of the science.

Please correct me if I'm wrong!

PS I'm currently doing a BEng in Electronic Engineering at a Russel Group University so please don't tell me that I don't have the technical ability or talent!

My advice. Buy yourself a Pro Tools HD rig or a Mac/Logic with the £10000+ you'd spend at SAE, subscribe to SOS and teach yourself.

Thank you for your consideration...
Everything is heading to LIPA now...

I already own a decent studio and the quality of my music is on par with the electronic music tunes being released internationally ...

But I don't want to live this dj live forever.. gigs and more gigs, planes, jet lag... and on this life u rely heavily on others (public, promoters...).. u never know tomorrow... and all this.. for what? I am no superstar dj.. sometimes I feel it is not worth it..

So I want to leave the artist side and go to the technical, scientific side... keeping my e-music as a hobby and dig in deep and learn as much as I can.. (not just: "turn this button left" "why?" "Becoz I say so") .. and of course have an academic qualification... something to assure my future if my personal endeavors don't turn out as expected... and it seems I can only be safe with a degree from somewhere like LIPA..

I am sure SAE deserves its merits... maybe it works out for some people.. but at the moment its not for me.. I am 22 already.. by the end I finish another degree I will be 26 .. competing with 21 year olds... I cannot bet my life nor my money on a provider that is so unappreciated like that.

Thanks for all your thoughts guys.

[Mowens800]

. and of course have an academic qualification... something to assure my future if my personal endeavors don't turn out as expected... and it seems I can only be safe with a degree from somewhere like LIPA..

A degree won't assure your future, have you seen all the other threads about the state of the industry?

[diogodasilva]

. and of course have an academic qualification... something to assure my future if my personal endeavors don't turn out as expected... and it seems I can only be safe with a degree from somewhere like LIPA..

A degree won't assure your future, have you seen all the other threads about the state of the industry?

But you agree that a degree from LIPA worths more than SAE correct?

It is not a piece of paper that will give you the job.. u gotta be good.. and I know that... I am no dreamer: "go to sae get a job.." or any provider for that matter .. not in my mind..

It's just that a degree from some respected institution will give you a good head start ... and also a degree like that will open up far more doors than the one that leads to the mixing desk.. u know what I mean?

[hollowsun]

But I don't want to live this dj live forever.. gigs and more gigs, planes, jet lag... and on this life u rely heavily on others (public, promoters...).

But that's what this game is all about - it's often 90% grind and tedium

So I want to leave the artist side and go to the technical, scientific side... keeping my e-music as a hobby and dig in deep and learn as much as I can.. (not just: "turn this button left" "why?" "Becoz I say so") .. and of course have an academic qualification... something to assure my future if my personal endeavors don't turn out as expected... and it seems I can only be safe with a degree from somewhere like LIPA.

Ok - understood. In that case - "keeping my e-music as a hobby - I see absolutely no reason to spend many thousands of £££ on a course of any kind (not to mention the extra thousands of £££ required to get over here and live) - you can learn as much (if not more) from messing around in your own studio, this forum, the SOS magazine and its website with years of archives to plunder, the internet (up to a point), books, etc..

As for having "an academic qualification... something to assure my future if my personal endeavors don't turn out as expected", no-one's really going to take that too seriously if I am being honest - it certainly won't assure your future. If that's what you want ... if your personal (musical?) endeavours don't turn out as expected ... you'd be better off with a 'real' academic qualification such as electronic engineering such as SixStringzzz is doing. If I may....





FWIW, most of the people I work with (on the manufacturing side of things) either have no qualifications (like me - I am totally self taught and I get the work through ability and a 25+ year track record) or are highly qualified electronics engineers, software/computer programmers, mechanical engineers, industrial designers, etc., with fairly serious degrees in 'real' and accepted disciplines.

And frankly, if your e-music is just going to be a hobby and you want to earn some money to pay the bills....

Learn plumbing, tiling, bricklaying, carpet laying, household electrics - or accountancy or legal work ... get a qualification in those! People need those services every day and will pay for them, often handsomely. Some of the most satisfied musos I know do those jobs, earn a fortune during the day, pay the bills, can afford to buy gear to indulge their hobby, go on holiday a few times a year, have a smart car (or two ... or three) and nice house, go out for meals, etc., and just enjoy playing in their home studios or in their band in their spare time. A far cry from the cynical musos and recordists I know who struggle to make a living seven days a week, 52 weeks of the year! I sometimes wish I'd taken that route!

Worth thinking about perhaps.

And BTW... your English is extremely good. Very impressive!

Ciao!!

[hugol]

I made the choice many years ago to do an IT degree rather than a recording / electronics degree. I find the audio side of things far more interesting, but even then it was looking tough for a long-term career choice - long hours and pitifull returns in comparison to IT.

A friend of mine did a course at a certain audio school in Islington. He worked tea-boy level at a well known studio in Shoreditch after that but never got very far. Eventually he got introduced to film work by a friend who does camera and he's now doing pretty well as a film recordist.

[diogodasilva]

But I don't want to live this dj live forever.. gigs and more gigs, planes, jet lag... and on this life u rely heavily on others (public, promoters...).

But that's what this game is all about - it's often 90% grind and tedium

So I want to leave the artist side and go to the technical, scientific side... keeping my e-music as a hobby and dig in deep and learn as much as I can.. (not just: "turn this button left" "why?" "Becoz I say so") .. and of course have an academic qualification... something to assure my future if my personal endeavors don't turn out as expected... and it seems I can only be safe with a degree from somewhere like LIPA.

Ok - understood. In that case - "keeping my e-music as a hobby - I see absolutely no reason to spend many thousands of £££ on a course of any kind (not to mention the extra thousands of £££ required to get over here and live) - you can learn as much (if not more) from messing around in your own studio, this forum, the SOS magazine and its website with years of archives to plunder, the internet (up to a point), books, etc..

As for having "an academic qualification... something to assure my future if my personal endeavors don't turn out as expected", no-one's really going to take that too seriously if I am being honest - it certainly won't assure your future. If that's what you want ... if your personal (musical?) endeavours don't turn out as expected ... you'd be better off with a 'real' academic qualification such as electronic engineering such as SixStringzzz is doing. If I may....





FWIW, most of the people I work with (on the manufacturing side of things) either have no qualifications (like me - I am totally self taught and I get the work through ability and a 25+ year track record) or are highly qualified electronics engineers, software/computer programmers, mechanical engineers, industrial designers, etc., with fairly serious degrees in 'real' and accepted disciplines.

And frankly, if your e-music is just going to be a hobby and you want to earn some money to pay the bills....

Learn plumbing, tiling, bricklaying, carpet laying, household electrics - or accountancy or legal work ... get a qualification in those! People need those services every day and will pay for them, often handsomely. Some of the most satisfied musos I know do those jobs, earn a fortune during the day, pay the bills, can afford to buy gear to indulge their hobby, go on holiday a few times a year, have a smart car (or two ... or three) and nice house, go out for meals, etc., and just enjoy playing in their home studios or in their band in their spare time. A far cry from the cynical musos and recordists I know who struggle to make a living seven days a week, 52 weeks of the year! I sometimes wish I'd taken that route!

Worth thinking about perhaps.

And BTW... your English is extremely good. Very impressive!

Ciao!!

First of all.. thanks for the compliment.

Now...
tough but nice post.
It is good to hear things like this sometimes to self-judge my reaction... If I was weak-minded I would probably be turned off but it is something I want to do, first for personal satisfaction, then for professional.

I agree you can learn by yourself digging information.. you can learn anything you want by yourself really... but universities exists for a reason and one of them is accreditation. Also in the uni environment you get to meet people that maybe will help you later in life or vice versa.

on the real life it is not like: "ok, i've got an "audio eng." degree, I know more than everyone here"
No course, in any area, will teach you every possibility. It is like the med students who have to do various months of internship in hospitals and clinics in order to finish their grad..

And come on.. LIPA is not a fortune like SAE... less than 4 grand a year for a respectable course (for EU Nationals)... It's the same I paid here in Brazil for my Advertising degree.

One thing that we need to keep in mind is that in some regions there still may be hope in some audio related areas.. for example cinema in India.. even in Brazil ... maybe the music business is already crowded, but then there are a bunch of possible correlated jobs.

It is also important to have a good network of people in the area you aim.

Another thing.. not everyone was born to be an astronaut...
the specific scientific area related to audio I admire is Acoustics to be honest..
but I cannot cope with the physics involved in that

Geez.. so many things I want to say don't even know where to start.

So.. let's forget about industry placement for a moment.
within reason.. what do you guys think about the education provided by LIPA?

[_ Six _]

Mate there is no future and no money in audio engineering. (That is going the LIPA or Surrey route)

Even if you manage to get into LIPA or Surrey and you manage to get a job there is absolutely no money in the long long hours you'll have to put in at a facility that is likely to be out of business in a few years anyway. You'll find yourself in your 30's having to go through school again to get a real qualification.

My advice would be get a technical degree in electronics or computer science and use university socials to build a portfolio of recording experience. The electronics and physics theory will serve you better than a media course and a BEng qualification will line your pockets a million times better than LIPA or Surrey could ever do.

The world is screaming out for Engineering Professionals. Not the media kind though. They stock shelves at supermarkets.

You can tailor your technical degree to specialise in audio systems.

Don't waste your money doing a media course.

[jimdrake]

Unfortunately Surrey is not an option as I don't have enough music grades.

I wouldn't let the entry requirements put you off. If you want to, you should apply. Your foreign student situation may put you at an advantage as well.

[gary111]

Stay away from SAE especially London.
like other people here are saying it's not worth anything. And there's no entry exam!!! Trust me I know.
As long as you pay they accept you. And the manager there is not a manager, you can't even get an appointment with him. The staff is nothing but former students. Read more even from SAE staff below

http://lithax.wordpress.com/2006/06/13/whats-so-wrong-with-sae-anyway/

http://www.wiretotheear.com/2008/10/25/is-learning-at-the-sae-institute-worthwhile/#comment-3217

[gary111]

There were some sort of legal battle lost due to SAE being full of illegal software.
When i was at SAE London I remember something about them resetting the waves plugins on the Protools systems.
Funny post below though, I especially like the pictures

http://saeoxford.blogspot.com/

[IvanSC]

Matthias......

Oh, Matthias...........

[Chris No.1]

OFF TOPIC BUT QUICK QUESTION

Someone I know applied to LIPA and got a conditional of MMM , three merits overall in music technology diploma.

they were 21.

Is that possible?

[Paul Soundscape]

depends on his circumstances, but qualification entry requirements are generally quite low,
its more about what you have done, how good you are, not how good a piece of paper tells someone you are.
which is generally what will happen when your in the big wide world too.

[Chris No.1]

depends on his circumstances, but qualification entry requirements are generally quite low,
its more about what you have done, how good you are, not how good a piece of paper tells someone you are.
which is generally what will happen when your in the big wide world too.

I applied to a lesser known uni and got higher requirements..

Might be some of his experiences over mine. Guess I have more to prove

[Paul Soundscape]

yes....to southampton and university of liverpool i had offers of AAB, Leeds College of music was CC
but that involved a days worth of exams and auditions.
(this is for music not music tech)

[Chris No.1]

Well people say, it's who you know not what you know in this business