My quest for Quadraphony -- journal and audio samples

[Ben Asaro]

Before I can get down to jamming, I will have do decide where I'm going to house the Leaning Tower of Reverbs.



I also need to figure out where I'm going to house the Zoom L-8 because putting that in/out of the box every day is going to become a drag ...

[Ben Asaro]

Not a perfect solution, but the best I could do with the space I have available; should be adequate for the next round of testing and jams, tho!

[Ben Asaro]

It's been a couple of days, but I've not been idle!

A few updates:

• Was disappointed, but not surprised, to discover that the Panasonic doesn't record or rewind properly. Being as it's 50+ years old, and purchased from eBay, this was an expected risk; especially at the $28 asking price. However, it plays fine, so I will be holding onto it to see if it may have some sort of second life in the new project. If not, I will, sadly, have to consign it to the skip.

• My brain must have been completely dislodged from my head last Friday/Saturday! First, the Lofiatron arrived. Yay! Then I accidentally fried it with the wrong power supply. Boo! Got an RMA and shipped it out on Saturday. Yay! Found out that I somehow got the labels mixed up and sent the Lofiatron to 4ms, and the 4ms repair to Phatronics. Boo! Decided to order the SampLofi from Phatronics and it arrived yesterday with the mis-delivered 4ms unit. Yay! Contacted 4ms and they are going to ship the Lofiatron directly to Phatronics. Yay! Shipped the 4ms Listen Four out (correctly this time) yesterday. Yay!

• Had a play with the Samplofi yesterday with loops I made on the JV-1080 and imported into the RC-5. To say this thing is vibey would be an understatement! Not only is it an 8bit looping sampler, it also has an output transformer for each sampler which cranks the saturation and harmonics. There is no question that this will come into play in the current project, just not sure how yet.

• I ordered a brand new portable tape cassette recorder from Amazon; it arrived yesterday. Of course it's not nearly as cool or substantial as the Panasonic. I've yet to test it. Reviews state that it's mono and not high fidelity, so it may be precisely what I will need for the Lofiatron. . Will do some testing with it today.

All of that being said, I think I'm finally ready to start my first quadraphonic test jam/recording this weekend! I'm excited/anxious and a bit overwhelmed at the sheer amount of STUFF I will have to juggle, but I'm truly looking forward to it.

I have some very basic requirements for the inaugural journey:

• 4-5 minutes overall length

• Key of E minor

• 75 bpm

• 2 layers of quadraphonic overdubs (8 tracks in total)

Since I'm missing the sub mixer for the surround channels (the aforementioned 4ms Listen Four), I will be using the Mix Up for my testing.

[Ben Asaro]

First quadraphonic jam/test was yesterday!



As to be expected, results are a mixed bag. A whole host of issues cropped up and I'm not sure yet of their severity. More testing ahead!

[Martin Walker]

Of all of the web sites I found, the one I enjoyed reading the most was Wendy Carlos' awesome web series of articles, What Comes Around Goes Surround, https://www.wendycarlos.com/surround/surround.html. She does a fantastic job of breaking immersive audio going backwards, and then forwards again, through time, explaining the different methods and technology used to create immersive music formats.

Wow - I bookmarked this link from your very first post in this thread Ben (five pages ago), but only got around to reading the contents in full this afternoon.

And you're right - what a fascinating, well-written and in-depth web site this is. I also had no idea that Wendy Carlos had been SO involved in quadraphonic delivery systems for such a long time.

[Ben Asaro]

Of all of the web sites I found, the one I enjoyed reading the most was Wendy Carlos' awesome web series of articles, What Comes Around Goes Surround, https://www.wendycarlos.com/surround/surround.html. She does a fantastic job of breaking immersive audio going backwards, and then forwards again, through time, explaining the different methods and technology used to create immersive music formats.

Wow - I bookmarked this link from your very first post in this thread Ben (five pages ago), but only got around to reading the contents in full this afternoon.

And you're right - what a fascinating, well-written and in-depth web site this is. I also had no idea that Wendy Carlos had been SO involved in quadraphonic delivery systems for such a long time.

So glad you enjoyed the read!

I found it very formative as to how I am going to approach things and though it gets a wee bit gatekeepy/high horse/you're doing it wrong in spots, I appreciate the comparison between a more audiophile approach vs Cianni's whiz-bang one.

[Ben Asaro]

I just wrote up a long post but my caffeine-starved brain closed the tab before I could submit it.

Long story short, workflow tests are still in progress!

Looking at remote solutions for the RFI noise issues.

[Ben Asaro]

AC power bank arrived! Whilst I don't think it will fix the RFI issues, it will enable me to get the rig out of the house! (I will, of course, test it inside as well, but I'm not expecting much on that front)

It took about 3 hours to charge and it powered the modular no problem!

[Ben Asaro]

I had a very successful/productive test, and perhaps my first real step forward for this project today!



With the AC power bank fully charged, I had no issue at all powering a 3U skiff as well as the Zoom L-8. Self-noise was negligible, and there was ZERO RFI or ground noise!

Of course, this is going to impact the workflow once again, as I am now going to break the modular into 'travel' rigs that I can carry outside and record remotely. I've been burned too often by the RFI in this house to assume that my little test is any way conclusive.

In many ways this actually forces me to pick a lane going forward and commit to an actual plan of attack, and for that I'm grateful, because otherwise I think I would be spending ages upon ages trying to make it work in a preconceived way when there are so many variations to the way I could be doing this.

My approach now is going to be to hew more closely to W. Carlos' method of sound staging for quadraphonic sound.

This is the plan I drew up this morning:



Following this sound staging will give me the 'bowed' sound stage Carlos talks about in her articles while still allowing me to have discrete elements that can move around the space as well as having dedicated sources in the surround channels.

My plan is to have 3 elements:
1. Purely stereo-fixed elements across the front channels, soft panned so as to not exceed 50% left or right from center in stereo playback.

2. Mono discrete elements which can be automated when I apply the quadraphonic processing.

3. Stereo-fixed or mono elements which will occupy the hard left and right pan positions in stereo and the surround channels in quadraphonic.

Further, this means that the music will likely not be hard sync'd and the mono, multi-device playback will be 'soft sync'd' by the end user playing play on each device in rapid succession.

WHEW! I feel very good about this and am looking forward to testing out the new workflow!

As you can see in the photo above, this will necessitate building the proof of concept test in layers using smaller, discrete systems which will be soft-sync'd. If you look carefully, you will see that first skiff, which I am calling Case A, has a Pico Drum module. I will use this module to 'stripe' the L-8 with a soft-sync track which I will then use to hand-align the other tracks to.

[Ben Asaro]

Following up on my work from yesterday (it's still far to cold and windy to do anything outside), I assembled Case B today:



The Doepfer mixer will be replaced with the List Four currently on its way back from repair at 4ms.

The only case left will be the quadraphonic processing case.

[Ben Asaro]

Update: I've been working 100 miles east of Brooklyn the past few days and the commute is brutal, so little time aside from work and sleep. Plus, the weather is still much too windy and cold to do anything outdoors.

HOWEVER -- there are a couple of minor moves forward on the project: 1) The repaired Lofiatron and Listen Four arrived this week, so everything is ready for the next big test in the outdoors. 2) I was able to disperse the quadraphonic rig into three cases: Case A is the SIG/Buchla voice; Case B is the NerdSeq/Moskwa/ONA case; and Case C is the quadraphonic processing case. 3) I ordered tape deck Number Three for the Lofiatron.

I am still not committed on how I will be using effects just yet. Originally I was going to not worry about reverb at all until I was mixing, but now I'm not so sure. I have a few things more to try out, I think, before I commit -- but I'm kinda leaning towards getting a second Blackhole or perhaps a dual reverb effect with discrete input and output for each reverb ... I'll test the RV-500 in this capacity as well, since that almost does exactly what I am looking for, I just remember being less than blown away by the reverbs available on that pedal.

Family photo (less the SampLoFi):



The plan is to keep each piece small enough that I can get a complete recording session done by combining Case C with either A or B and the L-8.

As ever, I shall be testing, reiterating, and testing some more!

[Ben Asaro]

This is my very crap quick-sketch of the audio routing should I find the RV-500 amenable.



It's not quite as versatile as using the Lexicons, but will give me a separate wet/dry mix for all 4 channels.

If this ends up working and I like the results, I shall be drawing this up properly!

[Ben Asaro]

Had a GREAT test/jam session last night, 100% battery powered! The RV-500 didn’t work out as I had hoped, I’m simply not a fan of those reverb algorithms.

The Blackhole worked a treat, though! We’re going to have PERFECT weather conditions today, but I will be in Philadelphia visiting family!

The next, and “final”, test will be a) seeing how bad the main RFI offenders work here in the Hot Zone (not expecting miracles), and b) testing Pam’s > MIDI-CLK > polyphrase.

[Ben Asaro]

Returning home to NYC today. According to my email, tape recorder #3 arrived yesterday; it was supposed to arrive this coming Thursday! Ofc, the one time a delivery is four days early is when I’m nowhere near to accept it.

Since I wasn’t expecting the delivery so early, I don’t think I have RCA to 1/4” cables to test with, but may have adapters someplace… will have to see.

[Ben Asaro]

First Lofiatron test and audio!

https://imgur.com/gallery/lofiatron-test-VsiGFUA -- imgur's embedding is broken AGAIN ... grrrr ...

Anyway, I didn't realize that the Lofiatron's output was so hot, and got some clipping ... BUUUUT ... overall, a success! A bit of RFI, but this is in the Hot Zone. The next test will be a proper one with the proper cables and not in the house. I've noticed that tape players and microphones are by far the most sensitive to RFI here.

The first Lofiatron test, https://audio.com/don-music/audio/lofiatron-test-1

[Ben Asaro]

Unfortunately, I am now in a bit of a holding pattern waiting for the weather to turn from cold & windy to something more amenable to being outside.

I do have two other projects I've been picking at and not saying much about as they aren't quite ready for prime time, so I shall use this time to work a bit more on those...

[Ben Asaro]

The weather continues to be absolutely dreadful here, further postponing my outdoor technical test/demo/proof of concept, but I have been picking away at sorting out carriage for the system and may have something sorted out.

In the interim, I have been thinking about panning and sound staging for the test recording and have come up with the following sketch and parameters:



Since I am conceptualizing this as a 'bowed' sound stage, I am not planning on having anything pan in a "circular" fashion; ie, something can pan from the left surround, through the front speakers, and to the right surround, but not through the intermediary space from one surround position to the other.

Across this bowed sound stage will be 3 'zones': close (very little ambiance), far (more ambiance), and very far (most ambiance).

My next step in the process will be to write a score for the technical test.

[Ben Asaro]

One of the advantages of a project this massive and slow-moving is that I get the opportunity to quadruple check my work and processes.

After thinking over the signal routing, I think it will probably be better in the long run to have individual control over the delay and reverb than to have stereo. So my plan for now is to use delay and reverb in mono.

I'm also contemplating using the RV-500's delay as a predelay for the Blackhole. Since it can switch between two presets, I can have one setting for close sounds, and another for distant ones. And then I will add the polyphrase after that as a more traditional/effect style delay.

And as I am typing this out and thinking about it, I can probably use the polyphrase to convert mono in to stereo out using the dual delay and ping pong settings if desired.

Adding all that to the Must Test list.

[Ben Asaro]

A VERY quick test tonight confirmed that just adding a short delay on a piano sample can create a sense of spaciousness. So I will likely be using the RV-500 as a predelay into the Blackhole. The plan is to have a preset for ‘near’ sources and ‘far’ sources.

[Ben Asaro]

imgur links are down AGAIN so I am trying to find another way to embed images here ...

A few tests later and nothing seems to want to work.

[Ben Asaro]

Photo woes aside, I ordered some poly foam from Amazon and have cut pieces to make custom packing for my eurorack skiffs to fit inside my Tiptop Audio Mantis case, which is soft-shell.

It was a quick job with a pair of scissors to get something that would enable them to fit nice and snug: one layer of foam on the bottom, and then the skiffs settled between foam pieces cut to fit, and a final layer of 1.6" foam on top keeps them from jostling about and protects any protruding dials and buttons.

Direct links below:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/TDuVF2S4zZLG9gC68

https://photos.app.goo.gl/RbFRxBA4Ea32W4KA8

My goal is to fit the eurorack cases and polyphrase into one case and the L-8, power bank, RV-500, and Blackhole into the other. I haven't tested the second case yet, so I have to see how that's going to work.

In an ideal world, I will also be able to sneak in my patch cables into the second case as well, but I have to try fitting it all in to see.

[Ben Asaro]

A quick re org between work calls, and Travel Case1 works a treat! 104hp case, 60hp case, and the polyprhase sit nice and snuck, well protected, and ready for transport!

Will try to get to Travel Case 2 later today/after work.

[Eddy Deegan]

imgur links are down AGAIN so I am trying to find another way to embed images here ...

A few tests later and nothing seems to want to work.

It's the way of the (online) world. I've been keeping up with interest, you're on a real mission here Ben and it's an engaging one. The gear looks really good too!

[Ben Asaro]

Ha, thanks, Eddy!

It’s 50% screaming into the void and 50% talking to myself.

As soon as the weather breaks, I’m looking forward to testing it outdoors in anger.

[Ben Asaro]

The weather has been absolutely wretched yesterday and today, so I've been indoors working on one of my fundamental technical challenges of the 'bowed sound stage' approach to quadraphony: getting a source to sequentially move from the left surround to the right surround, through the front left and right channels, and back again without having to purchase an XY joystick like Planar to do it! I refer to this panning as 'windscreen wiper' panning.

One of modular's strengths is that, with enough utilities, you can pretty much achieve anything you can imagine.

The first thing I did was sketch out what I was trying to achieve:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/cCKKkAbbMXfJC8Gx7

Once I had the sketch it became easier to visualize a sine wave LFO traversing across the sound stage: the panning is, essentially, a time line as much as it is spacial positioning.

It was the three sum locations that stuck out to me, because there has to be a moment when the left surround is louder than the left front, the equal to, then less than, and going in both directions in terms of panning.

After a bunch of experimentation with LFOs, Function, and Aeolus Seeds, the final solution was pretty easy to implement.

The signal flow is:
Source > Auto-Pan > mult > quadraphonic mixer > multichannel mixer

The control patching is a single LFO to the CV input on the auto panner. By multing the stereo outputs from the auto-panner and feeding them into the quad mixer, I then have four discrete outputs. As the LFO increases the voltage going into the auto-panner, the output also increases, and since those summed outputs are now discretely panned, it tracks across the sound stage and back again!

Whether the juice is worth the squeeze is another matter altogether, but as I am looking to replicate something closer to how Carlos used quadraphony as apposed to Cianni, I don't want things flying all over the place. If something breaks the 'rules' of my sound stage its for artistic effect, not just because I can.