Fender Blues Jr. ? (No classic Blues tones?.

[Mannyrock55]

Hey Guys,

I have been learning to play over the past 9 weeks by using my Fender Duo Sonic HS with a really cheap amp, a Fender 25 watt digital amp. (Paid $75 for it in a pawn shop, and it probably only originally retailed at $125 or so.)

That amp is so "Bright" that unless you put it on the Jazz setting, it will peel paint off of the walls. (Sadly, it has no Blues setting,)

I lived for 30 years in Memphis, where you can hear great traditional blues played by old guys in the streets and in the Clubs almost every day. So, I feel I can say with some assurance that I know what old school Delta blues is supposed to sound like.

In a few months, I will be buying a brand new amp, 15 watts or so, and hopefully for $600 or less. Since I am primarily interested in classic blues, I want an amp that can without question produce that sound, with a Fender or perhaps a Gibson ES-335. (I don't have the Gibson right now, but I had a 1971 Walnut one 30 years ago, and that is where I plan to end up.)

Seems like tons of people online say how great the Fender Blues Jr. amp is for all types of playing. And yet, when they play one with a Fender or Gibson, and demonstrate the five different "blues sounds" that they can get out of the amp, NONE of them sound like the classic blues sound to me. They are too bright, too thin, and often too distorted.

Can anybody comment on this? Can anyone recommend an amp to me that will get me that Mississippi Delta Blues sound? (Take one step outside of the Memphis city limits, on the south side, and you are in the Mississippi Delta. The Crossroads and the town where BB King grew up, are not too far away.)

Thanks for all advice.

Mannyrock

[Drew Stephenson]

It might be useful if you could provide a link or two to tracks with that target sound. There are probably as many different ideas of the Memphis sound as there are musicians from there!

[Wonks]

There have been a few versions of the Fender Blues Jr over the years. I've only ever played an original one (a friend's), but the stock speaker on that was awful. All mids. You really had to turn the treble and bass up and the mids right down to get it sound anything like a 'normal' Fender.

I swapped the speaker out for a Warehouse Guitar Speaker that I'd just taken from my Two Rock combo and that totally transformed it. I believe that even with the latest version, the speaker is still the weakest part of the amp and is best upgraded.

Most of the old blues albums were recorded before there were any treble boosters or distortion/fuzz/overdrive pedals, so they tended to be small amps turned right up to get some semblance of drive, or edge to the clean sound. I believe BB King used a Fender tweed Pro (with a 15" speaker) for his early records, and a lot of the earlier electric blues records will probably be Fender tweed amps of some sort. One amp I've got is a hand-wired Tweed Pro 5E5A circuit amp with a 12" Celestion Creamback Neo speaker, and that certainly doesn't lack treble, but you can dial the treble back if you want.

The way the records were recorded will have a big impact on the sound you hear. A lot of the treble will have been lost in the relatively low fidelity of the tapes used, and you are probably hearing things through room mics rather than close miked amps.

A lot of the blues musicians couldn't afford new Fenders or Gibsons, so most would be using cheaper Harmony or Silvertone guitars, often jazz-box styles to start with, which will also have played a part in the sound of some records.

Curly guitar leads would have been quite common, and the extra capacitance in those can take off a fair bit of treble from the sound of a guitar.

But as said above, if you've got any specific tracks in mind, then it might be possible to research more into what was used.

[adrian_k]

Hi, one thing I would say is take those online demos and reviews with a pinch of salt. If at all possible get to a shop and ask to try a few amps in your price range with different guitars (obviously a single coil tele will sound different from a humbucking 335.)

[ef37a]

I was also going to suggest that the speaker could be part of the problem but Wonks beat me too it and included several other things I had not considered.

Amp manufacturers often get criticised in forums and reviews for fitting what some consider a "bad" speaker but in a lot of cases they can't win!

The speaker in say a 1X12 combo is one of the most expensive single components in the amp. With the possible exception of the Rocket 50 I don't believe there are any universally hated drive units? This thread is about da blues but your heavy metal freak will want different and the guy in a covers band something fairly neutral (we will leave "modellers" and FFFR units out of this?).

So, if your amp maker fits a fairly expensive unit with a particular genre in mind, the other guy will say it is too expensive and doesn't sound to his liking anyway. Then, many players have a favourite speaker and whichever amp they buy they swap out the factory model. The guitar amp business is a very competitive one and there is always the temptation to fit something "budget but adequate" knowing many people will change it any way.

At the very low end of the market, practice amps or a little better, a fairly simple 15 watter say with valves or 30 watt solid state, the customer is likely a teen or younger and just wants LOUD!

Dave.

[Wonks]

The cheap Eminence 12" speakers Fender use in the lower range products is pretty awful. But they just have a Fender Special Design sticker on, like they do on most of their speakers, so it's hard to pick out the actual model Fender use. If I knew exactly what it was, I would hate it.

I once had a mid-80s Champ 12 and that had a similar all-mids sound. I managed to play it through a Marshall cab with a 1x12" Celestion G12T-75 in and it sounded so much better (if not perfect). But replacement speakers weren't as easy to find back then, neither were there the online resources available to help guide your choice, so it stayed stock and underperforming.

[adrian_k]

The cheap Eminence 12" speakers Fender use in the lower range products is pretty awful. But they just have a Fender Special Design sticker on, like they do on most of their speakers, so it's hard to pick out the actual model Fender use. If I knew exactly what it was, I would hate it.

^^^^ This. My friend’s Champ sounds terrible to me in all situations. Another friend has a Lazy J 20 which is rather good, and might meet the OP’s requirements, but then for £2.5K or whatever was paid you might expect that. When I’ve heard a Blues Junior, to me it sounded boxy (with an ES-175 single pickup clone) but I have no idea which era it came from.

[ef37a]

The cheap Eminence 12" speakers Fender use in the lower range products is pretty awful. But they just have a Fender Special Design sticker on, like they do on most of their speakers, so it's hard to pick out the actual model Fender use. If I knew exactly what it was, I would hate it.

I once had a mid-80s Champ 12 and that had a similar all-mids sound. I managed to play it through a Marshall cab with a 1x12" Celestion G12T-75 in and it sounded so much better (if not perfect). But replacement speakers weren't as easy to find back then, neither were there the online resources available to help guide your choice, so it stayed stock and underperforming.

When people slate or slaver over a particular guitar speaker it is as well to remember that it is notoriously difficult to make paper cones consistently. Hard for the expensive hi fi market so even harder in the hammer and chisel world of guitar amps!

I have always been very suspicious of the "running in" idea for speakers but where you have a paper cone that has been thrashed at 75% of its rating for ten years it likely DOES loosen up a bit! We don't do that to hi fi speakers or monitors. Therefore it is likely that an old, well gigged combo is going to be "smoother" than its brand new version?

Dave.

[Sam Spoons]

I was going to suggest a Boss Katana as a good allrounder that covers pretty much all the bases adequately but since you have a very specific sound in mind then I would agree with the other suggestions for a small valve combo.

[Mannyrock55]

As far as Youtube is concerned, lots and lots of people are praising the Peavy Delta Blues as a great blues amp. But again, when they play, it isn't the old school sound. Instead, it sounds like 1980s and 1990s blues. I guess that what constitutes a true blues sound has evolved over the past 80 years, so that everybody now thinks Stevie Ray Vaughn invented the blues and his sound is "the" sound. (Don't get me wrong, I think Stevie was incredible and enjoyed many of his hits. When he came to play in Memphis, I knew he would be staying at the 5 Star Peabody Hotel. So, I left my office at about 9:30 in the morning in an expensive suit, walked one block to the Peabody, strolled into the restaurant, and there was, eating breakfast. I told him how great he was, and he waive me over. He gave me his autograph with a smile.)

Back to amps: I think that the Supro Delta King 10 is probably the best true blues amp sound I have heard on Youtube. But, it is only 5 watts. And, word from the reviewer was that the 15 watt version has too much built in distortion. I guess that that is what people want.

Mannyrock

[Wonks]

You should go and try a few amps out. Just because you can drive an amp into lots of distortion doesn’t mean you have to. It’s what volume and gain controls are for.

But these days 5W is more than enough if the speaker is reasonably efficient. If you are just playing at home or recording, then it’s plenty loud enough. And if you plan on gigging, then it helps keep stage levels to sensible levels and just mic it up and put it through the FOH PA and add it to the foldback.

[Wonks]

On the 15W amp, there’s always the option of fitting a lower gain tube/valve in the preamp. It’s got a 12AX7, so you could use a 12AU7, 12AT7 or even a 12AY7. You might want an amp tech to have a look at the circuit as these other valves can draw more current than the 12AX7, so resistors around the valve need to be suitably rated. But an email to Supro might be easier.

[Watchmaker]

Best thing to do imo is go to Guitar Center or another big box store with lots of stock and spend some time with the amps.

Also, if any of the buskers in downtown Memphis are playing through amps, find out what they are and talk to them about how they get that tone. Every houn'dog I've ever run across will gladly yap all day about their music, especially if you sit down and share a 40 of OE. Guitar wise - maybe play the neck pickup and roll off the treble.

The point about old guitars like Harmony's etc. is a good one. Also, it's honestly said that tone comes from the fingers. Seek the tone you hear regardless of the gear!