US-Built Audio PC recommendations?

[alexis]

Hi - I've more seriously started looking for a new pre-built ("bespoke"?) audio computer, I'm located in the US.

I'm aware of several companies - ADK, pcaudiolabs, silentPC, fundamentalAV, and reportedly even Sweetwater does this with their "Creation Station".

Has anyone in the States had recent experience with these or other companies building your audio computer to spec? What's your experience been, including in terms of after-sales service?

Thanks so much for any thoughts!

[jxnWHITE]

Jim Roseberry @

https://www.studiocat.com/

knows what he's doing, has a well earned rep over the years and stays on top of the latest cpu options.

[alexis]

Jim Roseberry @

https://www.studiocat.com/

knows what he's doing, has a well earned rep over the years and stays on top of the latest cpu options.

Thanks, Jim, I've just dropped them a line.

Have you recently purchased one of their systems?

How is their after- sales support?

Thanks!

[Bob Bickerton]

Post deleted............

Bob

[Nazard]

Puget systems look good, I've used their site info and tools for some time, but as they are US based and I'm UK, I've never bought one of their PCs. They now make audio centred PCs:

https://www.pugetsystems.com/solutions/ ... kstations/

[resistorman]

The way things are going, don't think too long about it and buy now. I build my own computers, but I've dealt with Sweetwater for decades and they've always given great service.

That said, nothing wrong with a Dell or other big company computer.

[alexis]

Thanks, Nazard and resistorman!

Here's what Sweetwater has for sale for $US2,699. Seems a little expensive for what you get maybe (not 15th generation i7, Clock speed not higher, W11 Home/not pro, etc.?

Would need to know how noisy as well ... will check reviews.

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail ... orkstation
Operating System: Windows 11 Home 64-bit
CPU: Intel 14th Generation Core i7 (i7-14700), 3.0GHz Clock Speed (5.4GHz Max Turbo Boost)
Motherboard: Intel Z790 Chipset
Graphics/Video: Intel UHD Graphics 770 (integrated)
Maximum Resolution: DisplayPort 7680 x 4230, HDMI 4096 x 2160
Memory - Included: 32GB DDR5/5600 (4 slots/2 filled)
Memory - Max: 128GB
Storage - Included: 2TB NVME PCIe 4.0 M.2 Module
Storage - Expanded: 1x Open 3.5" SATA Hot Swap
USB Ports: 2 x USB-C 3.2, 1 x Type-A 3.2 Gen 2, 4 x Type-A 3.2 Gen 1
PCI Slots: 1 x PCIe 5.0 x16, 1 x PCIe 4.0 x16, 1 x PCIe 4.0 x4, 2 x PCIe 3.0 x1
Video Ports: 1 x HDMI, 1 x DisplayPort
Ethernet: 1 x Intel 2.5Gb Ethernet
WiFi: PCIe 801.11 b/g/n Wi-Fi Card
Audio Inputs: 1 x 1/8" (mic in), 1 x 1/8" (line in)
Audio Outputs: 1 x Toslink, 2 x 1/8" (Rear, Center/Bass), 1 x 1/8" (line out)
Height: 7" (4U)
Width: 19"
Depth: 20" (face to rear), 20.75" (handles to rear)
Manufacturer Part Number: CS400.9.0

[jxnWHITE]

Have you recently purchased one of their systems?

How is their after- sales support?

Thanks!

always built my own, and why i've noted his practical and reliable advice for others. he has a number of pro clients and experience with some of the heavier apps for things like film and an online presence in the regular spots, should be some great recommendations from customers on the Cakewalk by Bandlab forum.

i'd say his pre-sales support is the key to the need for any after-sale support, but there's always a warranty as well.

best,

[merlyn]

... Here's what Sweetwater has for sale for $US2,699. Seems a little expensive for what you get maybe (not 15th generation i7, Clock speed not higher, W11 Home/not pro, etc.?

Would need to know how noisy as well ... will check reviews.

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail ... computing-

There were some problems with 14th generation Intel chips. Reports were that the chips were degrading due to the firmware over-volting them. Intel claim to have fixed that now, and the fix is in BIOS updates. Probably any motherboard available now would have the fix, but if it was me, I'd want to check, which may be a step beyond the level of technical detail you want to get into.

With the Sweetwater system above ... do you actually want a PC in a 19" rack case? It doesn't affect the performance.

[alexis]

... Here's what Sweetwater has for sale for $US2,699. Seems a little expensive for what you get maybe (not 15th generation i7, Clock speed not higher, W11 Home/not pro, etc.?

Would need to know how noisy as well ... will check reviews.

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail ... computing-

There were some problems with 14th generation Intel chips. Reports were that the chips were degrading due to the firmware over-volting them. Intel claim to have fixed that now, and the fix is in BIOS updates. Probably any motherboard available now would have the fix, but if it was me, I'd want to check, which may be a step beyond the level of technical detail you want to get into.

Thank you for that, merlyn! I'm actually fine with running down a detail, even at that level, I appreciate your pointing that out.
.

With the Sweetwater system above ... do you actually want a PC in a 19" rack case? It doesn't affect the performance.

In ignorance I assumed I could be completely agnostic with the form factor (tower, vs rack mount sitting on the floor) without penalty. Thanks for setting me straight please if that's not correct!

[merlyn]

... In ignorance I assumed I could be completely agnostic with the form factor (tower, vs rack mount sitting on the floor) without penalty. Thanks for setting me straight please if that's not correct!

It's more about what suits you. Unless you're going to rack mount it, I don't see the point in a rack case. If this was on the floor you'd have to bend down to plug in e.g. a USB stick. Looking at some more photos of it those brown and cream fans are Noctua -- very quiet. The cooler looks like a Noctua D15.

[alexis]

Got it, and thank you once again, merlyn!

[merlyn]

Something else about that 4U case is that there are no dust filters. For air flow this case has open grills. That's good for cooling. Recent cases have a fine mesh over the grills to stop dust getting in. They reduce the amount of dust that gets inside the case, and are removable and easily cleaned.

[alexis]

Something else about that 4U case is that there are no dust filters. For air flow this case has open grills. That's good for cooling. Recent cases have a fine mesh over the grills to stop dust getting in. They reduce the amount of dust that gets inside the case, and are removable and easily cleaned.

That is, of course, something I never would have noticed/thought of. I'll keep an eye out for that on competing models.

Thank you again, merlyn!

[merlyn]

It's a server rack case, and there ain't no dust in the server room.

[jxnWHITE]

Would need to know how noisy as well ... will check reviews.

In ignorance I assumed I could be completely agnostic with the form factor (tower, vs rack mount sitting on the floor) without penalty. Thanks for setting me straight please if that's not correct!

a few comments if it helps.

- all of our systems are 4U rack mount Win PCs either in a custom console or in a shock mounted SKB case for location sessions.

- 4U cases are generally less efficient for thermals/airflow due to a slightly tighter form factor. best practice for rack mounting is to leave an open 1-2U space above it and make sure you don't park it over any gear that runs hot. that being said, my console rack is fully loaded and i'm able to run w/o any issues for years.

- re bending over, i just run a couple of usb cables up to the console desk

- cpu is a key factor. The intel/amd issues wrt performance, reliability, etc. etc. have been widely discussed on plenty of forums if you care to explore it further. it's a bit of "silicon lottery" and a moving target given the competitive issues in play with plenty of opinion to spare. i find it helps to stay focused on understanding what -you-need- vs. better/faster/whatever... (i.e. we're not using these to run games)

our latest build was based on balancing 3 -system- factors;
> fx load (i.e. run a full project w/plugins w/o freezing)
> long term reliability (primarily thermals)
> noise (tracking issues)
and of course !4$

trying AMD vs Intel because;
> better comparative clock speed for all cores
> lower TDP = lower cooling load
> some degree of "future proofing" based on socket compatibility

AIOs are strongly recommended for cooling all higher performance systems but never been comfortable with them give the potential stress of some of our location sessions and the perceived possibility of (mechanical) failure.

had been getting by with knocking off a few mm of fins for the best cpu fans that would fit into a 4U rack, had even considered a 5U, but still some concern with how hot cpus can get under load. the new Noctua NH-D12L is specifically designed for a 4U case. i'm running one of those now for our class of projects w/o issue. make sure your bios has plenty of fan speed support, which is key to managing any potential noise issues.

- the 4U cases have dust (and critter) filters all around.

[BWC]

Something else about that 4U case is that there are no dust filters. For air flow this case has open grills. That's good for cooling. Recent cases have a fine mesh over the grills to stop dust getting in. They reduce the amount of dust that gets inside the case, and are removable and easily cleaned.

That is, of course, something I never would have noticed/thought of. I'll keep an eye out for that on competing models.

Thank you again, merlyn!

Most of the mesh filters that I've encountered aren't fine enough and are pretty useless for trapping dust, but covering them with a layer of cut up pantyhose works great! Any open grill could be covered with hosiery, if you can come up with a way to attach it securely.

[merlyn]

I see. Have you tried silk stockings? I mean for keeping dust out.

The mesh filter on my Be Quiet! case seems OK. Here is a photo of the dust it has prevented from getting into my case:

As you can probably imagine, the circle is where the front fan is. There's also one of these mesh sheets in the bottom of the case. I have my computer on a piece of lino so it's not ingesting bits of carpet.

[BWC]

I see. Have you tried silk stockings? I mean for keeping dust out.

Yes, I have! ...oh, for dust, right... No, nylon does the job.

The case for my big PC has similar screens (front and top pop off, and two on the bottom slide out, one from the front, one from the back). The dust will build up on them in front of the fans, but lots still builds up on the fan blades, and plenty makes it past the fans. It was easy to put each of those mesh panels into a leg of the hose, then cut, and didn't cause any real trouble in fitting the panels back in place (minor adjustments). I bought the cheapest (black) nylons that Walmart had to offer. I don't actually remember if they were pantyhose, or thigh-highs, or what. Doesn't matter, it's a great material for fan filters. Every so often, I take the panels out back and blow the dust off with one of these. The fans, and all the components on the other side of them, stay nice and clean.

It sits on a shelf, and there isn't any carpet to worry about anyway, but there's always plenty of dust 'round here. There's a long, boring story as to why this area's so dusty. The short of it is, I'm looking to move as soon as I can. In the meantime, the hosiery works great. ...and makes all the other PCs envious of its sleek and sexy look and feel.

[alexis]

Hi -

Well, I've got 5 potential rigs to look at, from three different companies, that seems like a good amount of shopping I'd think (?). ADK has closed its doors, Fundamental AV is not answering emails or online queries, so the remaining three companies are:

• Sweetwater (Option 1, above in an earlier post)

• Studiocat (Options 2 and 3, below)

• PCAudiolabs (Options 4 and 5, below)

OPTION 2:
StudioCat Pro Studio (15th Gen) http://www.studiocat.com/
$2,658.00
Power Supply:
850w ultra quiet
CPU:
Intel Core Ultra CPU: Core Ultra 7 265k (5.5GHz)
RAM:
32GB DDR5/6000 (2x16GB)
OS drive:
1TB M.2 (3500MB/Sec)
Audio drive:
2TB M.2 SSD (3500MB/Sec)
Samples drive 1:
4TB M.2 (3500MB/Sec)
Video:
Intel Graphics
Operating System:
Win11 x64 Pro
Probably no DVD/Blu-Ray

OPTION 3:
StudioCat Platinum Studio (15th Gen)
$3,399.00
Arrow Lake CPU:
Core Ultra 9 285k (5.7GHz)
Power Supply​:
1000w ultra quiet​
RAM:
32GB DDR5/6000 (2x16GB)
OS drive:
1TB M.2 (3500MB/Sec)
Audio drive:
2TB M.2 SSD (3500MB/Sec)
Samples drive:
4TB M.2 (3500MB/Sec)
Video:
Intel Graphics
Operating System:
Win11 x64 Pro
Probably no DVD/Blu-Ray

OPTION 4:
PCAudioLabs https://pcaudiolabs.com/product/rok-box ... m-desktop/
$US 3,490
Rok Box MC X POWER Desktop or Rackmount Pro Audio PC
Case:
Rok Box Full Tower
Intel CPUs:
Ultra 7 265K 20 cores (8P+12E) 20 Threads 5.5GHz
Motherboard and Power Supply:
z890 Chipset DDR5 RAM with 850w PSU
CPU Cooling:
Quiet Fan
Thunderbolt 4:
None
High Performance Memory - DDR5:
32GB DDR5 (2 x 16GB)
Hard Drive Options:
Standard Drives
Primary Drive (OS):
1TB m.2 NVMe SSD
Secondary Drive (Audio):
2TB m.2 NVMe SSD
#1 Sample Library Drive (Data):
4TB m.2 NVMe SSD
Additional Standard Drives:
Select
Operating System:
Windows 11 Pro 64-bit
Windows USB Recovery:
No thanks
Graphic Card:
2GB Triple Display NVIDIA Graphics
FireWire Card:
None
WiFi Adapter:
None
Internal Optical Drive:
None
Keyboard & Mouse:
None
Install Software:
Yes please
Installs::
Please list any applications and drivers here you would like installed
OBEDIA Training Session:
OBEDIA - 30 min Session
OBEDIA Diamond Coverage (Warranty):
One Year Coverage
Lifetime Technical Support:
FREE!

OPTION 5:
PCAudioLabs https://pcaudiolabs.com/rok-box-mc-z-series/
$US 3,350
MC Z POWER Desktop and Rackmount
Case:
Rok Box Full Tower
AMD Ryzen CPUs (but have a UAD-2 Solo card, and UADx native plugins):
RYZEN 7 9700X 8-Core, 16-Thread
Motherboard and Power Supply:
AM5 Socket with DDR5 RAM, 850w PSU
CPU Cooling:
Quiet Fan
Memory - DDR5:
32GB DDR5 (2 x 16GB)
Hard Drive Options:
Standard Drives
Primary Drive (OS):
1TB m.2 NVMe SSD
Secondary Drive (Audio):
2TB m.2 NVMe SSD
#1 Sample Library Drive (Data):
4TB m.2 NVMe SSD
Additional Standard Drives:
Select
Operating System:
Windows 11 Pro 64-bit
Windows USB Recovery:
No thanks
Graphic Card:
2GB Triple Display NVIDIA Graphics
FireWire Card:
None
WiFi Adapter:
None
Internal Optical Drive:
None
Keyboard & Mouse:
None
Install Software:
Yes please
Installs::
Please list any applications and drivers here you would like installed
OBEDIA Training Session:
OBEDIA - 30 min Session
OBEDIA Diamond Coverage (Warranty):
One Year Coverage
Lifetime Technical Support:
FREE!

I am thinking that there is nothing to sneeze at with the Option 2, Core Ultra 7 265k, 5.5GHz, it should be relatively future proof for the next 7-10 yrs or so ...?

But if anyone wanted to spend the time to look these options over and let me know if they see any pitfalls, or can think of further questions I should ask the vendors, I'd be very grateful -

Thank you very much!

PS: Should I ask for fan details? "Chip details"? More details on the video card?

[merlyn]

Option 2 will certainly do the job. Looking at your signature you have an i5 4570 at the moment. This machine will be so much better you won't believe it.

If anything you've over-specced it. 850W PSU. But that's OK as it will be quieter as the fan won't run. Probably at all. 7TB of storage. Wow. You won't run out of space.

The only thing I wondered about was that it says the NVMe drives are 3500MB/s. That's PCIe 3 speed. PCIe 4 is 7000MB/s, and a board that takes a 15th gen chip will have PCIe 5. Now, in everyday use you won't notice the difference, but it would be something I'd wonder about.

[alexis]

Option 2 will certainly do the job. Looking at your signature you have an i5 4570 at the moment. This machine will be so much better you won't believe it.

If anything you've over-specced it. 850W PSU. But that's OK as it will be quieter as the fan won't run. Probably at all. 7TB of storage. Wow. You won't run out of space.

The only thing I wondered about was that it says the NVMe drives are 3500MB/s. That's PCIe 3 speed. PCIe 4 is 7000MB/s, and a board that takes a 15th gen chip will have PCIe 5. Now, in everyday use you won't notice the difference, but it would be something I'd wonder about.

Thanks, merlyn!

Re: NVME Drives ... if one assumes they chose 3500 MB/Sec rather than the one faster than 7000 MB/s for cost saving purposes ... do I correctly understand your suggestion to be, "Don't worry about it"?

Should this nebulous concept of "future-proofing" I have change how I think of this (I'm hoping to get 7-10 years out of this rig also ... I wonder if apps will get so demanding by then that the new rig will be a limiting factor, as my current rig is today?).

[resistorman]

RE future proofing... it seems to me that standard audio workflow has reached a plateau. Sure, there's CPU hungry apps for unmixing and restoration, but those functions will likely move to the cloud anyway. And hardrive speed is always increasing, no big deal to swap them down the road since the board has PCIe 5 capability. You'd likely want to do that in 5 years or so anyhow.

[alexis]

RE future proofing... it seems to me that standard audio workflow has reached a plateau. Sure, there's CPU hungry apps for unmixing and restoration, but those functions will likely move to the cloud anyway. And hardrive speed is always increasing, no big deal to swap them down the road since the board has PCIe 5 capability. You'd likely want to do that in 5 years or so anyhow.

Those are the ones that make my current system crawl ... and that's on a good day !

[Dennis J Wilkins]

Just my two-cents worth on PCAudioLabs having three of their Rok Boxes. The first is an XP system purchased over 16 years ago (!) and still runs fine, although used only for some legacy programs that don't work right in later OS. Support was superb, with fast response on phone calls, and some remote access to adjust settings. My second Rok Box was Win 7 purchased about 12 years ago and again, PCAudioLabs support was excellent. That system has been repurposed to an imaging/video processor and is used several days a week.

My third Rok Box turns ten years old this year, is also a Win 7 system, briefly updated to Win 10 (which was a mess with some old hardware not supporting Win 10) and I backed it to Win 7 (which was an amazingly easy process). It has an Intel Core i7-4770K CPU @ 3.5 GHz, 16 MB RAM running 64 bit Windows, and can easily run projects with over 100 tracks and hundreds of plug-ins, more than I really ever need.

I've thought of updating to Win 11 with a new PCAudioLabs tower, but after updating a laptop from 10 to 11, I'm not impressed. Since I almost never connect my audio system to the Internet, it just keeps running, no worries about viruses or trojans, and MS doesn't bother me with update messages.

I admit I haven't worked with PCAudioLabs support in a few years, but from what I have heard, they are still excellent, and their hardware is top notch. I would suggest getting SSD rather than hard drives -- I swapped all HD to SSD last year and the performance increase was significant, but the biggest benefit was an almost totally silent system. Hard drives running at 7,200 rpm create a 120 Hz tone! I should have replaced the HDs before, but waited until the cost of SSD came down.

Good luck on whatever you choose.