Best Amp under $600 Clean warm round tones, 10 watt?

[Mannyrock55]

Hello,

Sorry to ask. I am primarily playing Johnny Cash music, some early 60s rockabilly, some mid-60s beach/surf music, some mid-50s rock (Elvis type), and some classic warm blues with a little gain. (A gain knob would be set on 2 or 3). (I really like the song Apache by the Shadows.)

I know that this covers a lot of ground.

I really do not like distortion, fuzz, high break-up, crunch, over-driven, or heavy metal sounds.

I have a 2019 Fender Duo Sonic HS Player's Series Guitar. It has a Humbucker bridge pickup (with option to switch to dual single coils), and a single coil neck pickup. I play with no 10, nickel plated strings, and a Jazz iii .88 pick

I would greatly appreciate recommendations for a 10 watt or 15 watt, single channel, tube amp, for playing this type of music, at $600 or under. I play almost exclusively in my basement, which is very large, so I can play pretty loud. But I prefer to play at a medium volume, and I want to make sure that there is enough head room so that I can turn the volume up to 8 or so without it breaking up.

I know that Blues requires gain, so if necessary I guess I could add a small gain box for input, but I really do not want to get tangled up in peddles and switch accessories.

Are there any currently made amps out there that might be suggested for this? I have listened online to the 1968 Fender Dual Reverb amps, which got great sounds, but I definitely don't need two channels, or to pay $1,600.00, or to have hissing sounds when I am not playing.

Thanks for all advice.

Mannyrock 

[Chet Leeway]

Fender Blues Junior seems an obvious choice. 15W.

[ef37a]

The ball park figures I was given about amp power are thus,

Loud clean needs a minimum of 30W from a valve amp, 4X EL84/6V6 or 2X EL34/6L6.
Moderately loud cleans with some dirt, a good 15W valve amp. Would hold its own against most drummers in a smallish pub.
All that assumes a guitar speaker of 100dB/W/m sensitivity (most are or close but the response, "colour" of the speaker can make a huge different to subjective loudness)

Loud clean on a stage/town hall, 50W minimum and a 4x12 speaker for preference. 100 watts of valves and 2X 4X12 will do just about anwywhere.

Just to complete the picture, anyone going for solid state, multiply the powers by 2-2.5. To keep bass and keyboards clean, minumum 100W solid state.

Dave.

[Wonks]

20W-22W can certainly do loud and clean. Think Fender Deluxe Reverb.

But getting something under $600 that's both valvey and clean with a decent sound is the hard part.

Most of us on the forum here are in the UK, so are less on the ball with US used prices than UK ones.

But you should be able to get a used Fender Blues Deluxe or Hot Rod Deluxe for that sort of money (probaby the Blues over Hot Rod). The main problem with them is their very sensitive volume control knob which goes from a bit too quiet with no bite, to far too loud within about 2mm of volume knob travel. There are eBay sellers who will provide a volume/attenuator pot that fits in the FX loop of these, which helps you dial in a good tone without too much signal hitting the power amp.

The Blues Jr is an option, but as I've said before, for me, unusable without changing out the stock speaker, and I really think you'll struggle to get clean Johnny Cash-style sounds from it without doing so. But they are cheaper than the Blues and HR Deluxes, so you should be able to do that in budget.

Luther Perkins almost always used Fender amps in the later years; tweed Bassman and then 65 Deluxe reverb. The early stuff (Sun Studios) was done on a Silvertone 1300 (12W 1x10" combo). Otherwise he probably used what was available in the studio.

But getting an amp in the right ballpark for the era you want is just part of it. A lot is in the playing.

[ef37a]

"Most of us on the forum here are in the UK, so are less on the ball with US used prices than UK ones."

Hah! Hah! I get teased over at homerecording.com for plugging SoS forum so it makes a change to suggest them to you!

Also, I think there are speakers that "do" blues better than others? A Celestion Greenback, the 55Hz jobby is preferred I think to their rather raucous V30?

Dave.

[Wonks]

We’re talking country here, Dave, not just blues.

[Wonks]

But the OP, as has been said before, really needs to go and try some amps out in a store.

Personally I’d go and get at least one more guitar, a Strat or Tele with single coils, as I don’t think the Duo Sonic with the humbucker is the best choice for that sort of music. Yes, there's the coil split, but split humbuckers are never as good as a real single coil.

[Mannyrock55]

Thanks Guys,

I know I asked a detail amp question before, but in playing more and more, I am trying to hone in on what I play and then what I need.

When I watch and hear the Youtube reviews of the Fender Jr. and the Supro Blues King 10 etc., I am not that impressed with the sounds I hear. It seems as if everyone who tests amps on Youtube is addicted to the fuzzy, crunchy, distorted sound, and in short order starts playing that type of music on the amp.

Also, I notice that on the 10 and 15 watt amps they test, they ALWAYS have a big old mike right in front of it. Geeze, if you need a mike stuck to the face of the amp just to make a Youtube video, that doesn't say too much about the amp's power and sound. And, most of the reviewers have one or more accessory pedals and switches attached to the amp, that they just can't wait to start clicking!

I will definitely be going into a big guitar store to test some amps (closest is about 35 miles away), but I would kinda like to have a few specific models in mind when I walk in the door.

The sad news is that it seems as if what I really want is going to be in the $1,500+ price range brand new. Of course, there are lots of used amps around, but my big fear is that so many people appear to "modify" their amps, speakers and electronics. Even if test one in the store, I may really not know what I am getting. I would expect that even a used quality amp would be in the $700 plus range, and I seriously doubt that I would get any kind of warranty on it. Hard to shell out that type of money, for a used 10 year old electronic device, that may end up crackling and pooping out.

Thanks, Mannyrock

[yeroc]

Find an older Pro. Jr.

At $300ish its the best choice in this class. Very loud for it's size, plenty of clean tone. Rips even harder when you do an external cab. Now you have a little extra $ for whatever boutique gainbox to put in front of it if you like.

[resistorman]

I know that tube/ valve amps are the Holy Grail, but you should really take your guitar, go to a store and try _all_ the amps in that price range without (ahem) bias It doesn't matter how it's made if it works for you.

[Murray B]

Maybe go used / pre owned if you want a 'proper' valve amp.

I'll suggest you try a Vox AC 15 and see if you like it. They are heavy for their size but well built and the kind of amp that can last a lifetime with the occasional service.

As you are in North America it's worth checking out some used Carvin amps - they don't hold there prices quite as well as Fender so you'll get more amp for you budget.

But as others have suggested - there's no substitute for a trip to the store.

Also don't discount using a modeller and a powered speaker of some kind.

[ef37a]

https://reverb.com/uk/item/65074067-bla ... itar-combo

I no longer have a connection with the company but I can only suggest "what I know".

Best of the bunch is the Artisan 15. A conventionally built, cathode biased EL84 guitar amp in every way and will last forever because any tech who can lift a solder iron could fix one...NOT! That they go wrong at all often, never had a transformer fail for instance.

The Club 40 and the HT-20 are also reliable amps. The HT-5 is really not up to loud cleans (though people DO gig them through a 4x12!) but is an excellent "studio" amplifier.

Not relevant here but the Artisan A100 head (4X EL34) can often be found for silly money. BSH build, never knew one to fail* and again a conventional gitamp circuit that is easy to service.

*Some people that should have known better ragged the A off one with no load connected. Presumably listening to the OPTraff "singing"? All that did was blow the HT fuse and wreck 4 EL34s. New bottles, rebias, on yer way.

Just Like to add that the B'star single ended 10W amps seem to get a lot of good comment. Not sure they will have the headroom though and they offend my engineering sensibiities! Never heard one, after my time there.

Dave.

[Wonks]

Also, I notice that on the 10 and 15 watt amps they test, they ALWAYS have a big old mike right in front of it. Geeze, if you need a mike stuck to the face of the amp just to make a Youtube video, that doesn't say too much about the amp's power and sound.

You obviously have very little idea about amps and how to record them. The size of the mic doesn't matter, but most people are going to use a dynamic mic. And it probably will look pretty big against an amp with a 10" speaker, especially if of the flat Sennheiser e906 style. But a lot of that volume is protective grille and foam to cut down wind/breath noise, and the further the mic capsule is internally from the grille, the better the wind noise reduction.

People will close mic the amp for several reasons.

1) It mainly eliminates the room effect on the sound compared to a single room mic a long way away from the amp. You don't want to hear a lot of room reverb in the mix, especially from an a very reflective room. Most YouTube videos are not produced in acoustically treated studios where the room itself has a flat, balanced sound.

2) As the presenter will inevitably have their own mic (it may be just out of shot, or it may be in front to them on a lavalier mic mounted somewhere on their chest), a second mic allows them to balance the sound between their voice and the amp. If they had to do that with a single mic, then the amp would have to be far too quiet to make it sound any good, even a 5W one. 1W through an efficient speaker can generate up to 100dB SPL (and sometimes more) at 1m/3' in front of the amp, which is far more than you'd want to try and compete over with your voice.

3) As that's how you'd record the amp (maybe with a secondary mic a bit further away) or how you'd mic it up for live performances, it tells you what the amp will be like in those situations.

It certainly does not mean that the amp is too quiet to be otherwise heard.

Close miking does not properly represent the sound you'll hear in the room. Part of the sound is determined by the mic's frequency characteristics (though true of any mic), and a lot by where the mic is positioned on the speaker. You'll get a big variation of sound if positioned directly over the speaker dust cap compared to the edge of the speaker cone. But the presenter will normally find a position that they think is most like the amp in the room.

It's always going to sound a bit different to the amp in the room, but it will probably sound a bit different in your room compared to their room.

Yes, I totally agree that sticking pedals in front of the amp before they've fully demonstrated the range of amp sounds available is annoying.

But if they've done the range of amp sounds then sticking some standard pedals (like a Tube Screamer) in front does tell others how well it takes pedals, as most people will be using at least some pedals with their amp. In a studio, you can tweak the amp for each track you're recording and sometimes you can get away without needing pedals at all. But live, you don't have the luxury of time to do that, so a selection of pedals makes sense.

[Aled Hughes]

Also, I notice that on the 10 and 15 watt amps they test, they ALWAYS have a big old mike right in front of it. Geeze, if you need a mike stuck to the face of the amp just to make a Youtube video, that doesn't say too much about the amp's power and sound.

+1 to what Wonks said. If you take a moment to think about it, it's obvious that something has to pickup the sound of the amp in order to make a video! And the best way to do this is to dedicate a mic to the amp rather than trying to get a satisfactory result from another mic that's probably placed to optimize the voice. Also it's much better to have a mic close to the amp to eliminate the sound of the presenter's room - it wouldn't tell you much about the amp if all you could hear was a nasty, washy, roomy sound from a mic placed too far away.

The only way you can hear the amp without a microphone involved is by physically being in the same room as the amp.

[Sam Spoons]

I'd second the Fender Deluxe Reverb if they came up for the right money but I doubt you'll find one under $600. They ain't loud enough to gig clean but in your room they would sound fine. For the Shadows range of sounds an AC15 would be a good choice but, again, may stretch your budget. Most people who demo amps/guitars on YT are not interested in clean sounds so you only serious option is to take your guitar and try a few in real life.

I agree with Wonks BTW that a single coil guitar (I'd go for a Strat) would be a better fit for the sounds you want to recreate.

[S.Crow]

The guitar has a single coil and a HB with a coil split, so not getting the references to needing a guitar with single coils!

[Sam Spoons]

The single coil is, I think, a P90 style wide coil pickup so sounds different to a Strat/Tele type single coil. I love them (my favourite pickups) and they were used for 'Surf' type sounds but not so much for the others you mention which were narrow format single coils. A humbucker in split coil (or even parallel coil) mode sounds very different from a single coil due to the significant differences in construction. FWIW I have had coil taps on my Les Paul almost since I bought it in 1978 and never use them as they are pretty much useless, one of these days I'll rewire the switch to do something useful...

[Drew Stephenson]

We are very good at spending other people's money here aren't we?
Let's try and find an amp in budget first before we go to recommending buying another guitar as well.

[S.Crow]

The single coil is, I think, a P90 style wide coil pickup so sounds different to a Strat/Tele type single coil.

The OP is correct in that it is definitely a single coil at the neck.

A humbucker in split coil (or even parallel coil) mode sounds very different from a single coil due to the significant differences in construction. FWIW I have had coil taps on my Les Paul almost since I bought it in 1978 and never use them as they are pretty much useless.

That's a different pickup, from a different manufacturer, from about four decades earlier.
Coil splits will vary in tone, but at least the guitar has one native single coil pickup.
If they manage to go and hear some amps in a store, they will also have a chance to try a strat and see if swapping out the bridge pickup might help get the tones they are after.

[Sam Spoons]

Sorry, my mistake, I was visualising the wrong guitar. The neck single coil is indeed a 'normal' narrow form single coil so yes, it should get close that sound*. But the bridge pickup is a standard design humbucker, pretty much exactly the same as my 40 year old Gibson humbuckers with the magnets on the bottom and iron slug and screw polepieces. A typical HB has a resistance (indicating the number of turns of wire) of around 8kΩ so when you tap it it's resistance falls to 4kΩ. A Strat pickup probably has around 6kΩ (or roughly 50% more turns)** which combines with the magnetic pole piecesg to be much stronger than a tapped humbucker. I don't know the exact number of turns on the Duo-Sonic pickups but even if the HB is exceptionally overwound it is going to be weak when tapped compared to a 'real' single coil.

* The solid cover means the magnets are further from the strings than in a Strat pickup which will change the sound a little.

** Resistance is a very crude means of comparing how strong a pickup will be but it does give some indication.

[Music Wolf]

It would be worth looking at a Vox AC10. A lot of players seem to prefer this to the sound of the AC15 and it would appear to be bang on budget.

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail ... tube-combo

[Mannyrock55]

Thanks for all of the great advice! I really appreciate it

I have checked out all of the suggested options, and prices, and have also "checked myself", as to expecting too much and jumping in too deep to soon in any one direction.

Due to my very limited experience, I have decided for present not to buy a large used tube amp. Maybe later, when I know more.

For now, I have decided to go the short safe route, and get something that is a proven product, with just enough oomph and options to let me grow into it for a year or three, and also hold its value if I sell it used.

I have narrowed it down to two:

Delta Supro 10" 5 Watt. plus a boost switch pedal. It seems to have nice round warm sounds, though perhaps not the cleanest. It also seems to fit with the eclectic old style blues, plus rockabilly and early rock sounds I like. New, these are around $600.

A used Ouilter Micropro Mach II 8", plus a blues drive pedal, such as a Boss BD-2. This is a solid state amp, that only weighs 19 pounds. Even though it is not a tube amp, reviews generally agree that you can get really close to tube sounds, and it is built like a tank. And, as a whole, it has utterly fantastic reviews. Sadly, these have been discontinued. They cost around $600 to $700 used, in excellent condition. (May be hard to find. Folks say that they frequently come up for sale used, but my searches show only one currenlty for sale in Virginia, and at a very high price.)

I really appreciate all of the help and patience you have rendered on my posts, and if anybody has any comments about the two amps above, I would welcome hearing them. [P.S.- My Fender Duo-Sonic Player, does have a single coil neck pick-up, but it really doesn't "zing" and "sing" like the one on the Gibson SG Jr. I had when I was 12. ]

Thanks, Mannyrock

So, I h

[ef37a]

It would be worth looking at a Vox AC10. A lot of players seem to prefer this to the sound of the AC15 and it would appear to be bang on budget.

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail ... tube-combo

Ah! An interesting amp from the schematic I found although it uses a valve rarely seen outside very old TVs, the ECF82. Maybe the current models are more conventional?

Dave.

[Wonks]

Current Vox AC10 has two 12AX7s and 2 EF84s from the description I saw.

[Hugh Robjohns]

... it uses a valve rarely seen outside very old TVs, the ECF82. Maybe the current models are more conventional?

The original 1960s AC10 used the ECF82 at the front end. But the current AC10-C1 is a hybrid design with a FET front end feeding a 12AX7.