TB/USB-C adapters/dock etc for new Mac M4?

[nathanscribe]

My ageing old Allen & Heath Zed R16 and Mac Mini 2011 are really struggling these days, so this looks like the year to upgrade after 14 trips round the sun for the old kit. Both will be replaced.

The new Mac Mini M4 is probably what I'll go for, but as it has 2 USB-C ports and 3 TB4 ports, I'll need some way to hook up my MOTU 128 (USB-A), wired USB keyboard (A) and trackball (A).

I'll be wanting an external backup drive, and I'm undecided yet on what audio interface I'll be using. I have various thoughts on this, but most of my options appear to use USB-C or USB-A connectors.

It's been years since I had to shop for any of this stuff and I'm unsure what's compatible with what, or how hooking up combinations of things affects the speed of operation – can anyone suggest the best solution for this combo of old and new devices? I'm guessing I'll need at least one dock of some kind.

[Sam Spoons]

Apparently TB4 is compatible with USB back to USB2 (and with TB3) so with the correct cable, adapter or hub* you should be able to just connect your devices, 'plug and play' style.

USB C is the connector (as is USB A (and B, mini and micro)) not the connection protocol, USB 2.x, 3.x & 4.x signify the protocol (and speeds).

* You can buy TB4 hubs if you need more connections and speeds, compared to the USB 2 your list of devices probably use, will be plenty fast enough to support multiple devices.

[nathanscribe]

You can buy TB4 hubs if you need more connections and speeds, compared to the USB 2 your list of devices probably use, will be plenty fast enough to support multiple devices.

Cheers Sam, what's the difference between a hub and a dock? Is it still advisable to connect an audio interface to a different port on the computer than a hub/dock with various (slower) gubbins hooked up?

If I get an interface with USB-C, then that will connect direct to the Mini – but for example the new Tascam Studio Bridge has the old-school USB-B connector (USB 2) but I don't recall seeing a cable that has that at one end and USB-C at the other. So even if the protocol is fine, the connector itself would need a suitable socket. Hence my confusion over docks/hubs/cables.

It used to be advised to keep audio and MIDI interfaces on different ports, away from hubs, and on different buses from slower devices – but I'm completely out of date on this kind of thing.

[James Perrett]

If I get an interface with USB-C, then that will connect direct to the Mini – but for example the new Tascam Studio Bridge has the old-school USB-B connector (USB 2) but I don't recall seeing a cable that has that at one end and USB-C at the other. So even if the protocol is fine, the connector itself would need a suitable socket. Hence my confusion over docks/hubs/cables.

USB-C to B cables are fairly common - they are often sold as printer cables. I use one between my phone and audio interface.

Low bandwidth devices like mice, keyboards and Midi interfaces are fine hooked up to a hub sharing a single port on the computer.

[Wonks]

A hub is a device with one connection out to a computer USB port, and several connections out to multiple external USB devices. So it splits one USB connection to many and merges many back to one, so they all share the same bandwidth of a single USB port.

Powered hubs will provide standard USB power to each USB device connected, whilst an unpowered hub also splits the power provision up. OK for sharing that power to low-powered devices like mice or keyboards, but not for anything with much more of a demand.

A dock (unless I'm very out of date) is a device for slotting your laptop into and so getting access to external video monitors, keyboards and mice that stay connected to the dock. They will also bring out USB/TB ports and depending how many ports, they may also have a built-in USB hub to provide more USB ports for connecting peripherals like printers and scanners.

[Sam Spoons]

As James says USB C - USB B printer cables are easy enough to find. I use USB A to USB C adapters of different types/genders and all, so far, have worked just fine.

Most USB audio interfaces are USB 2, I'm not sure if anybody has taken the step up to USB 3 as USB 2 is plenty fast enough for multiple channels of 24/48 audio (32/32 in the case of my X32). Midi takes much less bandwidth than audio.

[Drew Stephenson]

I think Presonus did some USB3 interfaces but I have a vague recollection their latest ones may have gone back to USB2?
There was something in the magazine a month or two ago.

EDIT - Hmm. May be misremembering. They're certainly no longer doing Thunderbolt interfaces (see April's mag) but I not sure what the situation was with USB3. Maybe I dreamt the whole thing.

[James Perrett]

A dock (unless I'm very out of date) is a device for slotting your laptop into and so getting access to external video monitors, keyboards and mice that stay connected to the dock.

Nowadays they're just a hub that plugs into a TB port and splits that out into video, TB and multiple USB connections. The 2018 vintage Dell that I use was the last one they made with a traditional docking station connector - though it also has a TB connector for their new style docking station. I would guess that Apple stopped doing traditional docking stations well before that.

[nathanscribe]

A dock (unless I'm very out of date) is a device for slotting your laptop into and so getting access to external video monitors, keyboards and mice that stay connected to the dock.

Nowadays they're just a hub that plugs into a TB port and splits that out into video, TB and multiple USB connections. The 2018 vintage Dell that I use was the last one they made with a traditional docking station connector - though it also has a TB connector for their new style docking station. I would guess that Apple stopped doing traditional docking stations well before that.

So, does this mean 'hub' and 'dock' are more interchangeable these days? No wonder I was confused whike browsing and seeing things that looked just like hubs called docks...

Regarding powered vs passive hubs, I know TB will provide a fair bit of juice – USB also does these days I think? So hubs can be powered directly from the port itself?

I've also seen adapters but they look a little less stable than the hub/dock option. Not sure I trust the extra pressure on the ports.

I feel like Rip Van Winkle.

[nathanscribe]

As James says USB C - USB B printer cables are easy enough to find. I use USB A to USB C adapters of different types/genders and all, so far, have worked just fine.

Most USB audio interfaces are USB 2, I'm not sure if anybody has taken the step up to USB 3 as USB 2 is plenty fast enough for multiple channels of 24/48 audio (32/32 in the case of my X32). Midi takes much less bandwidth than audio.

Yeah, my old setup is FW800 which is way slower than USB these days. I kept it going because it worked. Until it didn't!

So those little port adapters are OK then..? They feel secure and reliable?

What's the joke about standards... the good thing being there are so many.

[James Perrett]

So, does this mean 'hub' and 'dock' are more interchangeable these days? No wonder I was confused whike browsing and seeing things that looked just like hubs called docks...

From the Apple website it appears that way. A dock tends to be more sophisticated as you will see from this one from the Apple website

https://www.apple.com/uk/shop/product/H ... 4-pro-dock

although this one calls itself a hub yet is almost as sophisticated

https://www.apple.com/uk/shop/product/H ... 4-core-hub

and this one calls itself an adaptor yet still contains similar basic features

https://www.apple.com/uk/shop/product/H ... adapter-v2

I guess the thing to remember is that a full featured Thunderbolt port carries a variety of interface signals. This old article covers the basics up to Thunderbolt 3

https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques ... best-audio

I couldn't find a similar SOS article for TB 4 though.

[nathanscribe]

Thanks, this is most useful.

[ConcertinaChap]

AS I recall Thunderbolt originated as a daisy-chain protocol, which means that you could connect a number of devices to one port but they had to be in a daisy chain, one device to the next. Hence hubs proliferated, each with 2 TB ports on as well as the other stuff, one to the computer or previous item in the daisy chain and the other for the next device in the chain, if any. From TB4 hubs are allowed. These work just like USB hubs except all the ports are true Thunderbolt.

CC