Guitar patches on keyboard don't seem like they would work as background rhythm guitar accompanying a real guitarist' le

[alexis]

Hi,

I've been asked to play in a new band which is very much different in construction from my present one, and I'm trying to prepare a bit ahead of my first practice, but running into some problems as below.

The new band currently has a lead vocalist, an electric guitarist, bass, and drummer. They just fired their keyboardist.

I've sat on with the vocalist and guitarist, and the latter does nice fills and lead solos, and some rhythm. The song list is 60s-90s and later pop.

They like my solo keyboard playing, but I feel I'd be off additional value to the band by learning how to support them in the background as well. I thought learning to play patches that sounded like a background electric guitar and doing rhythm chords on the keyboard highlighting the lead guitarist might be helpful, but ... every guitar patch I choose on my

Roland Juno DS-88 synth

sounds like it's meant for solo work somehow.

Is this a common finding on synths like this? Any suggestions on how I might modify these patches to be less in the face, and more supportive of the group?

I'll start by rolling off some of the high end on these. I really don't have much experience beyond that in modifying patches, like decreasing attack etc., but I'll do what I have to if I can.

Thanks for any thoughts!

[Hugh Robjohns]

Why not provide background support by playing piano (acoustic or electric), or organ?

Surely, if they wanted a rhythm guitar backing they'd have picked a guitar player instead of a keyboard player?

[Wonks]

Every guitar patch I’ve ever heard on a keyboard sounds nothing like a guitar to me.

You also have to remember that guitar chords are often spread over more than two octaves, so playing keyboard voicings of the chords will never sound the same. You’ll almost certainly need two hands to get the same spread of notes as you’d get on a barre chord or open string ‘cowboy’ chords.

I’d stick to Hammond patches. They’ll fill out the sound nicely.

[The Elf]

I use a few guitar DI samples played through my Helix (native or hardware). I know for a fact that the sounds are convincing, since nobody has ever questioned the guitar on the music I've released!

[Sam Spoons]

Same here, play to your strengths, don't try to be a rhythm guitarist, be a pianist or organist. I play guitar in a three piece blues/rock covers band and, as the only instrument playing chords it can be difficult to keep the sound full when I take a solo, particularly when doing something from 5+ piece bands like Santana, Tull or Dire Straits. We get away with it live by keeping it busy to hide the gaps but, on the rare occasions when I've had a keyboard player underscoring it all with a string or hammond pad or something rhythmic on piano it sounds so much more 'complete' (and that's even when you discount the more visible keyboard parts in those tunes).

The punters rarely bother if a cover is not exactly, note for note, the same as the record, their brains fill in the gaps so make you own versions of the songs, as long as the basic feel is there and you perform with enthusiasm the audience will love it*.

* Ok, it won't always work for every single audience member, there will always be the odd superfan who will pick up on the slightest thing and could probably tell if you learned it from a live recording** or the record (and probably tell you the date and venue of that live show)...

** Live recordings are a great source of arrangement cues, at least for bands who don't rely too heavily on backing tracks.

[resistorman]

There's a reason why Rhodes, Wurli, Hammond, Oberheim, Jupiter and Prophet sounds are eternally popular for pop

[AlecSp]

There's a reason why Rhodes, Wurli, Hammond, Oberheim, Jupiter and Prophet sounds are eternally popular for pop

My thoughts entirely.

[zenguitar]

Have a conversation with the band about why they fired their previous keyboard player.

If it because he/she didn't sound like the rhythm guitarist that the lead guitarist desired; it would suggest that what they really need is rhythm guitarist, or a different lead guitarist who can work with a keyboard player.

As others have hinted, there are keyboard options that have worked successfully for over half a century.

Andy

[shufflebeat]

All of the above - plus:

Instrument sound is often about articulation as much as timbre. The reason a guitar sounds like it does is because those are the techniques that fall “to the hand” with the opportunities/restrictions of the instrument.

With care and study you can emulate this but it will be more effort and less convincing than an actual guitarist. It’s the same issue with guitar synths emulating keys, brass, etc.

You are what you are, go guuurl!

[RichardT]

It’s quite hard to do what you’re looking to do, Alexis. There are so many variables in how the guitar is played it’s not an easy thing to replicate on keys.

I would go for keyboard patches which fill the same ‘space’ in the music.

[alexis]

Thank you, folks. Classic keys sounds to fill the space it is then.

Such a waste of memory on the synth keyboard then, all those e. guitar patches, I don't get it!

[OneWorld]

Thank you, folks. Classic keys sounds to fill the space it is then.

Such a waste of memory on the synth keyboard then, all those e. guitar patches, I don't get it!

I concur. I am a guitarist, but can get by playing keyboards, and there are times when I cannot be bothered learning a guitar part, especially when it comes to tricky barred chords. I have tried and tried to emulate the guitar part on the keyboards, and nope, it just never sounds right, in fact the song sounds better off without.

The other day I thought, OK, I'll just play a piano part instead, and by mistake selected a Rhodes/Wurlitzer patch, and it did the job just fine. The thing is, with guitar chords, they have that juxtaposition of notes that sound fine, even on the occasion with notes in a chord a semi-tone apart, and it works, but played on a keyboard, it just doesn't work.

[Arpangel]

Why did they fire their keyboard player? was it because he didn’t sound like a guitarist?
I fired our Flautist, because she didn’t sound like a sax, can you believe it?
Hugh Is right, just stick to keys, the type of music you’re playing theres loads you can do.

[alexis]

Got a list of the songs for the next gig, this is the first one I click on.

Should be interesting/challenging for someone of my skill level to come up with a keyboard patch that supports the band like the 2nd jangly guitar does on the recorded track!

https://youtu.be/BJn-Jl2ZeQU?si=ZMDERdZphop1TC-x

[Wonks]

A Farfisa organ sound was the first thing that sprang into my mind. The 'original' track could so easily have had it on.

[Drew Stephenson]

Yep, what Wonks said.

[MOF]

I’m very happy with Native Instruments guitars but I don’t play them live, not sure if they would be of use to you.

[alexis]

Hi all,

Just a courtesy follow up here to thank everyone for their time and help:

Turns out, when they told me the line up, they forgot to mention there is actually an electric rhythm guitarist in the band. Dohh!

(So it's lead vocalist, electric lead and rhythm guitars, electric bass, acoustic drums, keys).

So much ado about nothing, they're very happy with just keyboard sounds coming from my keyboard. Ha!

Thank you again, everyone!

[shufflebeat]

Yay!!

Happy keyboarding.

[alexis]

Yay!!

Happy keyboarding.

[ajay_m]

As you can easily hear on YouTube, using one of Musiclabs plugins on a computer and choosing an appropriate effect stack for it, you can create very convincing guitar sounds from a keyboard.
But I have never heard any keyboard standalone guitar patch which is more than fleetingly convincing. The Musiclabs plugins know about impossible voicings that can't be played on a fretboard for a start.

And they can do stuff like hammer on, mute etc. Of course as has been mentioned already you have to play like a guitarist too but again these plugins can "strum" as well as play melody lines, and you just can't do this with fixed plinky plunky "guitar" patches.

[Arpangel]

My DX7 through a Boss SE50 set to "guitar multi" you’d never think it was a keyboard.

[alexis]

As you can easily hear on YouTube, using one of Musiclabs plugins on a computer and choosing an appropriate effect stack for it, you can create very convincing guitar sounds from a keyboard.
But I have never heard any keyboard standalone guitar patch which is more than fleetingly convincing. The Musiclabs plugins know about impossible voicings that can't be played on a fretboard for a start.

And they can do stuff like hammer on, mute etc. Of course as has been mentioned already you have to play like a guitarist too but again these plugins can "strum" as well as play melody lines, and you just can't do this with fixed plinky plunky "guitar" patches.

I'll look into that for DAW work, thanks ajay_m!