Second dynamic microphone adivce (SM57, Beta 57a, E835)

[fladd]

Hi there,

I am looking into getting a second dynamic microphone next to my SM58. I also have an sE X1 and a Samson C15, both large condensers. However, the SM58 is nicely portable (together with an old Scarlett 2i2) for when I have to record (mainly vocals) somewhere else (e.g. at a friend's place). I am also considering starting a podcast together with a friend which would require a second dynamic mic. I thought buying another SM58 is boring, so I am considering an SM57 (which apparently everyone should own), as it seems to be a studio favourite (sure, mainly for snare and amp, but apparently also some great vocals have been recorded with this for major records) and it could come in handy as a more general purpose mic for all kind of things future. Then of course there is the beta equivalent, the Beta 57a, which might be a bit better for vocals (although some disagree), but seems less of an all-rounder. And finally the Sennheiser E835, which has a very different sound (very bright), has a good reputation for live-vocals (although I mainly encountered them at talks and panel discussions, but I am not sure if how it would do in a recording situation and how much of an all-rounder it is.

I am leaning towards the SM57 for some reason, but if anyone is maybe familiar with all of these and can give some advice/recommendation, that would be very appreciated.

[Bob Bickerton]

Best dynamic for general use including vocals is the Beyer M201 IMO. It was once said that ’If the SM57 were a microphone, it would sound like this’ in reference to the M201 and I’m inclined to agree

In fact it compares favourably with the Neumann KMS 105.

Bob

[Arpangel]

I'm with Bob, M201 no doubt, extremely good mic, for a variety of applications, but shines on percussive instruments, tuned percussion.

[Hugh Robjohns]

Not a big fan of the Sennheiser E835. The Shure Beta57 is good as a vocal mic, and can be used on other things, but I dont find it as versatile as the Shure SM57 whose long-standing reputation as a reliable all-rounder is well deserved.

The Beyer M201 is also a genuine all-rounder, and rather more refined than the SM57. I share Bob's love for it!

You could also consider the ElectroVoice RE20 (and its relatives).

[Sam Inglis]

I'll add to the chorus praising the M201, with the caveat that it's more prone to popping if used up close than a dedicated vocal mic would be.

They are unfortunately very expensive now, but the Sennheiser MD441 is an amazing mic.

[Arpangel]

Having big trouble finding anything better for our marimba than a couple 201’s, they just sound great on stuff like this.

[Wonks]

One benefit of getting a second SM58 is that the basic tonality of the podcast recordings will be the same for both speakers. The M201 sounds quite different.

And you'll almost certainly need to use it with its foam windshield if you are close miking.

The SM57 is also a mic that I feel really needs a windshield if used up close to the mouth. The Beta 57A is fine in this respect.

You might also want to think about relative polar patterns. The SM58 is cardioid, as is the SM57 and e835, whilst the M201 is hypercardiod and Beta 57A is supercardioid.

If the mics will be positioned some way away from you, then different pickup patterns will give different amount of the picked-up room sound, which adds to the basic differences in mic tonalities.

I have all of these mics in my collection. Of these I'd probably pick a Beta 57A for close vocal work on stage, but probably an M201 for more distant work. But ideally two of them. You don't have to buy new.

[James Perrett]

I always liked the Beyer M300 as an affordable vocal mic although it is no longer made. The Audix OM5 has a similar sound but a tighter polar pattern. I've also been impressed with the AKG D5 on some voices.

All of these will sound more refined than an SM58 but may not cut through as well if you are using a dodgy PA system - the SM58 will work in a wider variety of situations.

[Bob Bickerton]

Apologies, should have mentioned the M201 requires pop protection.

It used to ship with its own bespoke windshield but that’s now an additional accessory (code WS 101).

Bob

[illegal colors]

I read on the internet that SM57 with A81WS Windscreen when used for podcasts sounds almost identical to SM7B with CloudLifter CL-1.

[Wonks]

I believe they used some corrective EQ as well, but I've seen that video. It's going to work for a certain distance away from the mic, but the distance vs proximity drop-off for the 57 will be a bit different to the 7B, so if you change your distance from the mic, you'll need to adjust the EQ to match.

Or you could just EQ the SM57 until it's right for the voice rather than try and match the response to an SM7B.

You have options.

[fladd]

Thanks a lot for all the replies! Really appreciate it!

I have no doubts the M201 is a better mic than all of the ones I mentioned, but it is not what I had in mind price-wise.

The idea was indeed to have something that is not too different to the SM58 (so it can be used in tandem with one, without sounding too off - although you can probably EQ any two mics to sound similar...), but does bring something new to the table.

The SM57 seems to weirdly polarize people, with opinions going from "the only mic you ever need / would take this on a lonely island with me" to "terrible sounding 60 year old technology". Yet, it was used for lead vocals in major productions which to my ear sound more than good (although arguably through a much better preamp/console than what I have available).

The Beta 57 is a bit of a weird one to me. It is around since 1989 or so, apparently technologically the much better ("beta" is the American pun here I guess) mic, and yet it doesn't seem that is has replaced the SM57's status (and there are also none of those stories of its usage in any major productions like for the SM57). I do wonder why that is.

The Sennheiser E835 seems to get recommended a lot around the internet, with claims that it is drastically better than the SM58 it seems to compete with ("day and night difference"). But again, no success stories of its usage in studio recordings.

Still a bit torn, but still slightly leaning towards the SM57 for some reasons (currently also comes with a free K&M mic stand at Thomann). Would indeed use it with a windscreen (A2WS probably) or with a normal pop filter, I suppose.

[BWC]

The Beta 57 is a bit of a weird one to me. It is around since 1989 or so, apparently technologically the much better ("beta" is the American pun here I guess) mic...

Not sure what you mean here, "American pun"? ...not one I'm familiar with / aware of.

[fladd]

The Beta 57 is a bit of a weird one to me. It is around since 1989 or so, apparently technologically the much better ("beta" is the American pun here I guess) mic...

Not sure what you mean here, "American pun"? ...not one I'm familiar with / aware of.

Americans pronounce "beta" in a way that sounds like "better". I always assumed the pun here is to call these mics the "beta" 57/58 because they are "better" than the originals.

[BWC]

The Beta 57 is a bit of a weird one to me. It is around since 1989 or so, apparently technologically the much better ("beta" is the American pun here I guess) mic...

Not sure what you mean here, "American pun"? ...not one I'm familiar with / aware of.

Americans pronounce "beta" in a way that sounds like "better". I always assumed the pun here is to call these mics the "beta" 57/58 because they are "better" than the originals.

Interesting, I don't think I've heard it pronounced in a way that sounds like "better". ...or maybe it's just that the American pronunciation doesn't sound, to me, anything like "better". I wouldn't have thought of, or gotten, that "pun". I doubt that's what Shure was thinking.

[Arpangel]

The 57 is fine, the 58 intolerable, I hate them, avoided at all costs, they became popular because of price, and that horrible presence peak that "cuts through" yes, cuts through my ears.

[Hugh Robjohns]

Interesting, I don't think I've heard it pronounced in a way that sounds like "better".

I didn't spot Shure's pun either, if that's what was intended, but he is right about the pronunciation.

Where Brits say BEETA, the Americans (at least some of them) say BAYDA... which isn't far off 'better' (or bader in American. )

[BWC]

The American pronunciation is bay-tuh (or beɪ.t̬ə), and I'm aware of the British pronunciation (as well as the Greek pronunciation). I guess it's just me then, but I don't think bay-tuh sounds anything like "better" (American or British pronunciations). I hear too clear of a distinction for it to be an effective pun. <shrugs shoulders>

At least, I now understand the assumption, but I highly doubt any such pun was intended by Shure, personally.

Anyway...

I've always liked Shure's mics well enough, nothing special, but usually usable.

...they became popular because of price...

...and would point out their virtual indestructibility as another reason for their popularity besides pricing.

[Wonks]

And certainly with the SM58, low handling noise.

But it is a stage mic, that occasionally gets used in studios (less so now than years ago when there was far less mic choice).

And whilst relatively low cost now, it was still a fairly expensive mic back in the 70s and 80s.

[Arpangel]

An SM58 combined with a dodgy cheap PA, always sounds predictable.

[Wonks]

I'd blame the cheap PA rather than the SM58.

[Arpangel]

I once knew a chap who miked up a live performance for surround sound with multiple SM58’s, he’d spent all his money on recording kit and hardly any money on mic's, there was "no" bass, and it sounded very strange.
We kept telling him to spend more money on mic's, whether he did or not I don’t know.

[Bob Bickerton]

I'd blame the cheap PA rather than the SM58.

I have a theory that SM58s gained their reputation because they actually ‘cut’ through with cheaper/dodgy PAs and so were a good solution. As PA quality improved people started to realise better mics would sound, well better, because you could hear the difference.

Having said that, I always had an Sm58 on hand in case some rock and roller wanted to swing it on its cable………

Bob

[Aled Hughes]

Apologies, should have mentioned the M201 requires pop protection.

It used to ship with its own bespoke windshield but that’s now an additional accessory (code WS 101).

Bob

They work very well - 201s with those windshields have become my go-to live vocal mic (the MC930 with their included windshields and the bass roll-off engaged are very good vocal mics too, but are more prone to popping and feedback). I've just finished a studio session this morning with a 201 as a vocal mic too. They're great!

[Bob Bickerton]

Apologies, should have mentioned the M201 requires pop protection.

It used to ship with its own bespoke windshield but that’s now an additional accessory (code WS 101).

Bob

They work very well - 201s with those windshields have become my go-to live vocal mic (the MC930 with their included windshields and the bass roll-off engaged are very good vocal mics too, but are more prone to popping and feedback). I've just finished a studio session this morning with a 201 as a vocal mic too. They're great!

Same here. I use the M201 for my own vocals, plus flutes, etc.

Bob