AI Music Generators

[junkmale]

our window cleaner was round this week, made them a brew and had a bit of natter, and they told me how they've been writing lyrics/poems for as long as they can remember, and can pick up a guitar and write a tune, but can't sing to save their life.

then a few weeks ago they came across [uel]www.makebestmusic.com[/url]
they were a bit sceptical at first, but gave it a go, and were delighted with what it produced.
they had to upload their lyrics and give it some detailed instructions on how they wanted the song to sound, but - painful as it is to say - I couldn't help being a bit impressed by the results.

I suggested to them they now need to be getting a card up in their local music store saying "bandmates wanted" so they can take it on the road

it's not a route to making music I'll be choosing, but I can certainly see why it's attractive for some....

[adrian_k]

Similar thing happened to me this week - someone played me a song written and produced by AI, having been provided the lyrics and prompts. It was pretty good actually. It sounded like a record. If you heard it on the radio it would fit right in. Not my thing at all but I have to say it was quite impressive.

[OneWorld]

our window cleaner was round this week, made them a brew and had a bit of natter, and they told me how they've been writing lyrics/poems for as long as they can remember, and can pick up a guitar and write a tune, but can't sing to save their life.

then a few weeks ago they came across [uel]www.makebestmusic.com[/url]
they were a bit sceptical at first, but gave it a go, and were delighted with what it produced.
they had to upload their lyrics and give it some detailed instructions on how they wanted the song to sound, but - painful as it is to say - I couldn't help being a bit impressed by the results.

I suggested to them they now need to be getting a card up in their local music store saying "bandmates wanted" so they can take it on the road

it's not a route to making music I'll be choosing, but I can certainly see why it's attractive for some....

Did he do a cover of George Formby's - When I'm Cleaning Windows?

[Albatross]

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Mitclear-Clean ... 0CT2PL3CN/

[Drew Stephenson]

it's not a route to making music I'll be choosing, but I can certainly see why it's attractive for some....

One thing that puts me off AI in any form is the huge carbon footprint.

But then I look around at all these instruments and mics and speakers and computer peripherals...
I bet I could create a lot of stuff on AI before I got even close to the carbon footprint of that lot.
And then you think of the live music side of things, with transport and PAs and lights, etc.
It doesn't feel like we're in a very sustainable business / pastime. So I'm definitely scratching off the environmental angle as a reason for critique.

[Martin Walker]

...then a few weeks ago they came across [uel]www.makebestmusic.com[/url]
they were a bit sceptical at first, but gave it a go, and were delighted with what it produced.

it's not a route to making music I'll be choosing, but I can certainly see why it's attractive for some....

That's frighteningly good junkmale!

[ManFromGlass]

So I'm definitely scratching off the environmental angle as a reason for critique.

You can’t win with that one. Unless you are naked and banging found rocks and downed branches together in patterns heretofore uncopyrighted!

[Jack Minter]

I was in a similar position—I loved writing lyrics, but my voice was average at best. It actually stopped me from sharing my passion with anybody. So, I started using -spam link removed- after a friend talked about it. All I had to do was choose a voice to create my songs. It brings them to life and makes them sound awesome! It’s incredible what AI can do if it's given a chance…

[alexis]

I was in a similar position—I loved writing lyrics, but my voice was average at best. It actually stopped me from sharing my passion with anybody. So, I started using -spam link removed - after a friend talked about it. All I had to do was choose a voice to create my songs. It brings them to life and makes them sound awesome! It’s incredible what AI can do if it's given a chance…

I haven't tried an AI voice yet, though I keep saying I will one day.

The ones I've heard seem to be devoid of emotion (autospelled on my phone as devoid of "snoring". Yeah, that too).

The songs I've written I fear are uninteresting enough... taking away any emotion, even if out of tune, will pretty much be the coup de grace for them, I'm fairly certain !

[sc1460]

I was in a similar position—I loved writing lyrics, but my voice was average at best. It actually stopped me from sharing my passion with anybody. So, I started using - spam link removed - after a friend talked about it. All I had to do was choose a voice to create my songs. It brings them to life and makes them sound awesome! It’s incredible what AI can do if it's given a chance…

That's great to hear, indeed the negativity around AI (it's too late to stop it, it's out of the box, everyones using it to some extent, even without knowing) is similar to the negativity about a lot of new technology over the past 6 decades. I just wonder if it's a generational / youth thing; my dad loathed the distortion on guitars, fuzz pedals, said "nothing wonderful can come from that monstrosity", he preferred the classical guitar hehe.

I've tried the Dreamtronics and Sonarworks voices, the coding behind them must be awesome. And here's the thing, for certain genres, it's totally suitable - edm, dance, hyper-pop, alternative. In fact use it to create a brand new genre, for me the greatest producer of the last 10 years for innovation and mass-appeal is AG Cook. Between the Beatles and his music, there is no connection. Different planets. Yet one is as valid as the other to the RIGHT listener (not my dad of course, but for my daughter and her friends, spot on!
cheers
H

[yeroc]

This was shared recently by another artist and I'll quote them as I don't think I can say it better myself!

"Here’s the main reason I hate AI:

- It’s being developed by the worst people on the planet solely to enrich themselves at the expense and labor of the world’s vulnerable populations. Everything else stems from that.

-They plop their massive, polluting data centers into black neighborhoods.

- They have to underpay, overwork, and exploit workers in Africa just to get it to function

- The “training data” is stolen work of creatives and academics.

- That data is then used to steal opportunities from those same people. It’s global apartheid, a pyramid scheme, and landlord economics all rolled into one.

- It makes people lazier, less educated, and less talented, which is exactly the type of population these oligarchs need to seize and maintain control

But at least we get cool profile pictures out of it, right?"

As a fellow US based creative and software practitioner I think this is dead on!

[zenguitar]

I have removed the link posted earlier and quoted twice.

The linked site has had a large number of attempts to post disapproved. They are offering AI cloned voice copies of existing stars. This is equivalent to offering cracked software.

Andy

[Albatross]

AI doesn't make music, it just makes something that sounds like music. A bit like me taking a picture of the The Mona Lisa and saying that its art; its not art, its a photograph of art.

[Rich Hanson]

AI doesn't make music, it just makes something that sounds like music. A bit like me taking a picture of the The Mona Lisa and saying that its art; its not art, its a photograph of art.

This.

I reject the comparison with previous technologies. Whatever you think of distorted guitars, synthesisers and drum machines and so on, the fact remains is that humans were in control of the composition, the performance and/or the programming.

[Peevy]

AI doesn't make music, it just makes something that sounds like music. A bit like me taking a picture of the The Mona Lisa and saying that its art; its not art, its a photograph of art.

A nice analogy

The pillaging of art

[Arpangel]

Music isn’t about "just" the music, it's about the people behind it, their lives, what made them do it. That’s what people are buying, AI can't tick that one very important box.

[Drew Stephenson]

Music isn’t about "just" the music, it's about the people behind it, their lives, what made them do it. That’s what people are buying, AI can't tick that one very important box.

I'm really not sure that carries. I know sweet FA about most of the people and bands I listen to. I know even less about any of the classical composers I listen to.

[BWC]

Music isn’t about "just" the music, it's about the people behind it, their lives, what made them do it. That’s what people are buying, AI can't tick that one very important box.

I'm really not sure that carries. I know sweet FA about most of the people and bands I listen to. I know even less about any of the classical composers I listen to.

But whether you know their story or not, their music does (wouldn't be the same if their story was different).

[Drew Stephenson]

But whether you know their story or not, their music does (wouldn't be the same if their story was different).

Oh absolutely, but I don't need to know about it, and that's not what I'm buying.
That's the bit I was challenging, but I fear I may have misunderstood Arpy's point so thank you.

[BWC]

Oh absolutely, but I don't need to know about it, and that's not what I'm buying.
That's the bit I was challenging, but I fear I may have misunderstood Arpy's point so thank you.

Yep, exactly. I don't (usually) need / care to know about it either, so it's not so much that I'm buying the life story of the artist(s), but the result of that story (so far).

So, what stories does AI feel the need to tell? It doesn't*, it only needs to produce a satisfying response to a (naturally intelligent) user query. So it's a tool that a natural intelligence can use to aid in telling a story, or abuse, in various ways, to pursue the old (possibly foolish?) dream of less work for more reward.

*...at this stage. The marketing folks have jumped the gun calling it "AI". It's a set of tools that have come out of AI research, but it's not an actual "AI", and I, personally, don't think it's gonna be any time soon. When (if) it is, then... Well, then we have lots of Sci-Fi predictions to consider...

[Arpangel]

Let me challenge what I wrote, and say, exactly how much is my music about my life? Listening to some of it you’d think I was a nice peaceful undisturbed chap, the rest of it is like a portrait of a schizophrenic.

[Appelbuddym]

Oh absolutely, but I don't need to know about it, and that's not what I'm buying.
That's the bit I was challenging, but I fear I may have misunderstood Arpy's point so thank you.

Yep, exactly. I don't (usually) need / care to know about it either, so it's not so much that I'm buying the life story of the artist(s), but the result of that story (so far).

So, what stories does AI feel the need to tell? It doesn't*, it only needs to produce a satisfying response to a (naturally intelligent) user query. So it's a tool that a natural intelligence can use to aid in telling a story, or abuse, in various ways, to pursue the old (possibly foolish?) dream of less work for more reward.

*...at this stage. The marketing folks have jumped the gun calling it "AI". It's a set of tools that have come out of AI research, but it's not an actual "AI", and I, personally, don't think it's gonna be any time soon. When (if) it is, then... Well, then we have lots of Sci-Fi predictions to consider...

Do you actually believe that people creating anything of any quality are just hitting "Generate X song" ? I have been writing lyrics and shitty acoustic melodies for 2 decades... MY STORY.. My words dictate what the generated song style is. IDC what you say, I've never heard a single other artist that sounded like what my words produce. The only similarities are the same common chords you hear in most hits over the years.

I choose the instruments, I label the exact flow of the song at every verse, break, chorus and bridge. I spend 3x long editing Meta tags (glorified MACROS as you basically pointed out) that do not invent the song for me, they simply randomize and automate the process of different sound combinations within my very specific parameters. This is absolutely no different than when I spend 100x the same amount of time, manually seeking the best combos in a DAW.

On top of that, I have severe asthma, 2 collapsed lungs and a pleurodosis on my left lung- meaning I have a 30% reduction in lung capacity on my left side and perpetual chest pain.

I have spend 1000 of hours in DAWs, I've tried collabing, I've tried using samples to fill the gaps I can't...

Also.. why don't you please, truly, explain how it's better to live in a world where the most talent writers have to sell THEIR voice, THEIR story to other people simply because they don't have the natural singing talent.. or the degree of knowledge to be a producer... I would sacrifice 100 guitarists playing the same 3 fkin chords for 1 writer to find their voice.

Green Day didn't write half their songs, Every one of your favorite artists and bands are derivative and ripping off all their inspirations and heros...

Your graphic design tools kill artists a long time ago. The automated router destroyed MY livelihood as a artisanal craftsmen... I am a skilled woodworker... I could be making $500 per piece if people would commission my hand-carved decorative mouldings with a flower pattern.. all chiseled with real skill..

Buuuut instead they buy the $5 knock off, derivative of 1000's of years of craftsmen's skills and designs... and you didn't have shit to say then did you?

"Musicians" are as fake as they come these days anyway. Modern artists are a plague...

If you want to come between me, and the only real way I have of bringing MY vision to life through dozens and dozens of hours of work - PER SONG- (post editing is a thing as well).... I promise you will fail.

[BWC]

I'm not sure how any of that has anything to do with what I said. Did you actually read what you quoted? These things are tools, use 'em if you want, I don't care. I have no interest in them personally, but I didn't say any of that crap you're trying to put in my mouth. Please stop, I don't appreciate my words being twisted in to your imaginary nonsense.

[Appelbuddym]

I was elaborating on your POV. I was speaking in a general tone not directed at you...

But after seeing your reply I re-read my post and the tone is extremely defensive and borderline aggressive. That was not the tone in my head as I wrote it..

My goal was just to elaborate from the user perspective completely, as I feel most peoples comments on all of this are extremely reductive. Yours was actually a bit more nuanced so I chose to build off yours.

This is my first time using this forum I just assumed I was supposed to quote the message

[BWC]

I was elaborating on your POV. I was speaking in a general tone not directed at you...

You can't really elaborate on my point of view without any knowledge or understanding of it. It seemed to me like you were arguing against the POV of someone who exists purely in your imagination. When you quote me, and then keep saying "you", I'm sure you can understand why I would take that as directed at me.

Allow me to elaborate on my POV regarding your previous post...

Do you actually believe that people creating anything of any quality are just hitting "Generate X song" ?

"Quality" is subjective, but yes, there are plenty of people out there doing exactly that (where x = "a long, specific string of descriptors"). The term "prompt engineers" has been mentioned in another thread (and laughed at, by me at least).

Thankfully, there are also others out there (and probably more to come) doing more interesting things with the new tools emerging from AI research. You might be one of them, IDK. No one here was attacking you, or your specific usage, any more than you meant to be attacking me.

I have been writing lyrics and shitty acoustic melodies for 2 decades... MY STORY.. My words dictate what the generated song style is.

I've been active in music for nearly four decades now, and some folks 'round here have been at it for longer still. Some of us prefer finer control over a song's style and arrangement (and LOVE obsessing over all of the glorious details), rather than having it all "generated" based on lyrics and prompts.

Everyone has different abilities and limitations, but for me personally, what a lot of people are doing with these tools is "skipping the fun part". In the past, you would've sought out another human who enjoyed the work that you didn't and had the skills that you didn't, and vice versa, and collaborated (or possibly, hired). Computers are cheaper than humans, and sometimes easier to work with, but taking that human interaction out of the process changes the results in ways that a lot of us often find "unsatisfying".

...what my words produce.

More precisely, what a computer program produces from your words, as opposed to what you or some other human might produce to accompany your words.

I choose the instruments, I label the exact flow of the song at every verse, break, chorus and bridge. I spend 3x long editing Meta tags (glorified MACROS as you basically pointed out) that do not invent the song for me, they simply randomize and automate the process of different sound combinations within my very specific parameters. This is absolutely no different than when I spend 100x the same amount of time, manually seeking the best combos in a DAW.

Great! You are, of course, free to create by any process that you like, but I suspect that if you could observe my process for working out an arrangement, you'd easily be able to understand the difference (it's mostly a lot of thinking, pretty boring to watch, but fun for me). So again, personally, I don't want to skip or "speed up", what is for me, the fun part (or one of the fun parts anyway).

On top of that, I have severe asthma, 2 collapsed lungs and a pleurodosis on my left lung- meaning I have a 30% reduction in lung capacity on my left side and perpetual chest pain.

I'm very sorry to hear that, and wish you all the best in overcoming, or living with, whatever pains and troubles life has seen fit to heap upon you (it really isn't fair, I know). Ever heard of Jason Becker? I don't recall anyone ever giving him a hard time about using whatever tools he still could, and not actually playing the guitar anymore. Likewise, I'm not judging you for using any tools that you feel you need to, to overcome your physical limitations. That said, I remain unimpressed by "AI" tools as a replacement for either human interaction or human thought, which is how a lot of folks are trying to use them (not necessarily you, but...).

I have spend 1000 of hours in DAWs, I've tried collabing, I've tried using samples to fill the gaps I can't...

...yet? ...maybe? Again, many of us have been continuing to learn and progress in music for far longer, and there's always more. ...thankfully! Maybe, if you gave us more specific details about where you feel "you can't", we could offer useful suggestions to help you get past that feeling. Perhaps, you might be surprised by what you can do.

Also.. why don't you please, truly, explain how it's better to live in a world where the most talent writers have to sell THEIR voice, THEIR story to other people simply because they don't have the natural singing talent.. or the degree of knowledge to be a producer... I would sacrifice 100 guitarists playing the same 3 fkin chords for 1 writer to find their voice.

Well, Dylan (and others) did pretty well without much "natural singing talent". ...though I'd still rather listen to the Hendrix version of "Watchtower", personally. Reportedly, Hendrix didn't like his own singing voice. Me, I think it was pretty good, but... The reality is that we live in a world of possibilities, no one has to sell anything to anyone, we make choices. As for "selling" in general, really not my thing. ...probably a big part of why you probably haven't heard any of my music. That's OK, I had a BLAST making it! We make choices...

Green Day didn't write half their songs, Every one of your favorite artists and bands are derivative and ripping off all their inspirations and heros...

OK, now I'm insulted! How dare you call me a Green Day fan! Don't confuse the "favorite artists and bands" of the members of this forum with what "sells" or is popular among the general public, sometimes they align, often they don't.

There are, and looong have been, lots of derivatives and rip-offs. Often it's the result of business pressures from the "sellers". Stone Temple Pilots, for example, I hated their first couple of records when they came out (...yet another Pearl Jam clone, ugh. ...I didn't even like the original Pearl Jam!), but after STP were allowed to make a record that sounded more like themselves (and after subsequently hearing good live performances of their older stuff), I realized what must've happened, just more business folks missing the point and insisting that it sound "more like that thing that sold so well last month".
...I don't actually know if it was external "sellers" or internal "sellers" (AKA band members) in that case, but same result, I still don't like those first couple of STP records.

Your graphic design tools kill artists a long time ago. The automated router destroyed MY livelihood as a artisanal craftsmen... I am a skilled woodworker... I could be making $500 per piece if people would commission my hand-carved decorative mouldings with a flower pattern.. all chiseled with real skill..

Buuuut instead they buy the $5 knock off, derivative of 1000's of years of craftsmen's skills and designs... and you didn't have shit to say then did you?

Actually, this argument (in various forms) has been discussed quite a bit on this forum, in other threads. Perhaps, you should read through some of the older threads, and get to know us all a little better before making assumptions in your posts.

"Musicians" are as fake as they come these days anyway. Modern artists are a plague...

Let's also not confuse musicians, and other artists, with "celebrities". Some are both, most are not. That is, most artists are not celebrities, and most celebrities are not artists. ...not that that'll stop them loudly declaring themselves to be, so I can understand the confusion, but I think it's an important distinction to keep in mind.

If you want to come between me, and the only real way I have of bringing MY vision to life through dozens and dozens of hours of work - PER SONG- (post editing is a thing as well).... I promise you will fail.

No one here is trying to come between you and anything, we all have more fun things to fail at.

But after seeing your reply I re-read my post and the tone is extremely defensive and borderline aggressive. That was not the tone in my head as I wrote it..

...and that's why I'm taking the time to respond further, I believe you, that you didn't mean to come across as you did.

My goal was just to elaborate from the user perspective completely, as I feel most peoples comments on all of this are extremely reductive. Yours was actually a bit more nuanced so I chose to build off yours.

This is my first time using this forum I just assumed I was supposed to quote the message

...and this is why I say that you should spend some more time reading the forum (and also the forum rules) and getting to know the place a little better before making assumptions. If some people's comments seem reductive, it's probably because this thread is just the latest in an ongoing discussion, there have been other threads on this subject.

Despite the "rough start" (and assuming that you actually are human), welcome to the forum! Please join us in polite, friendly conversation about our shared interests and passions.