How are my bass traps looking and what shall I fill them with?

[Sam Spoons]

Mine are smaller and simpler than Hugh's at about 600mm across the front and about 2m high, I made the 2 x 1 front frame more or less the same as my FB absorbers as it was easy to cover with Cara fabric. Sorry I don't have any close ups of the construction.



Full band absorber panels below, mine have 50mm RW3 batts inside and are spaced about 40mm off the walls/ceiling. My room is small and I considered this an acceptable compromise particularly for the ceiling cloud panels as headroom is very restricted.

[jellyjim]

Is what looks like a brick wall actually the walls of the room

Don't worry Hugh, I saw in the article

[jellyjim]

And ...

Gosh it's all very complicated (but very interesting) but also full of compromises, or is so in a domestic context at least

Just to re-iterate:

Some treatment is better than none, right? It's worth trying?

[Sam Spoons]

Some treatment is better than none, right? It's worth trying?

Yes, undoubtedly, for a mixing space the first three mirror point panels will make the most noticeable difference, subsequent extra panels follow the law of diminishing returns but up to about ⅓ coverage of exposed walls and ceiling you will hear a difference.

For a recording space it's almost the more the better (with the caveat that too much HF absorbtion will make the room sound boxy). I make sure record vocals and acoustic instruments underneath the existing ceiling panels. Overall my room sounds ok* and I rehearse a three piece electric band in there and recordings of the sessions sound fine.

* I plan to add a few more panels to the larger spaces on the walls and ceiling in the near future.

[Drew Stephenson]

Gosh it's all very complicated (but very interesting) but also full of compromises, or is so in a domestic context at least

Any small, domestic environment is likely to be compromised to some extent (though I think I recall Hugh saying his room is virtually flat? But he has huuuge bass traps), so focus on improvement rather than perfection.

[jellyjim]

But he has huuuge bass traps),

Hugh's bass traps bring all the girls to the yard, girls to the yard, girls to the yard

[jaminem]

Hi mate, Ive realised that this is the next post on from what we were previously discussing.

Those traps you've made aren't going to do very much if you use them on their own i'm sorry to say.
They are just too small to be effective with the material you say you want to produce and the bass end that goes with it. The good news is that you could still bunch them together and put them behind your speakers or on the back wall, and their dimensions mean they will be easier to position around existing features In your room.

Adding the triangular traps you are being recommended will be better, but they need to be floor to ceiling and all 4 corners (doors etc not withstanding)

I feel like you will still need more.

Hugh's are better again, but are a bit of trek to be able to make - definitely worthwhile doing if you have the inclination/skills/time to do them though.

Good luck tho....

[jellyjim]

Hi mate, Ive realised that this is the next post on from what we were previously discussing.

Hi, thanks for staying interested!

Those traps you've made aren't going to do very much if you use them on their own i'm sorry to say.

Yeah for sure, I certainly didn't think they were the complete solution.

The good news is that you could still bunch them together and put them behind your speakers or on the back wall

Yup, that's what I hoped, something like that. They're useful anyway in that I explored their construction and if they can still be of some use somewhere then that's great.

Adding the triangular traps you are being recommended will be better, but they need to be floor to ceiling and all 4 corners (doors etc not withstanding)

How deep/size did you go with yours?

I feel like you will still need more.

No doubt. I guess it's a multi-pronged strategy:

Improve the room as much as is practical
Use headphones
Use something like Slate VSX
From time to time have some sessions in a properly treated studio/space

I suppose it's the fact that, for the type of music we're interested in, getting the low-end right isn't just part of mixing, it's part of the creative process, right? Kicks being the obvious example.

Good luck tho....

[jaminem]

Yo JJ
So I have GIK monster traps in the corners diagonally floor to ceiling with rockwool in the triangular void behind them, then GIK tri trap’s floor to ceiling on the back wall in 1 corner and the other side where there’s a door so the trap is at the end on my rack as close as I can to the corner still facing into the room- not ideal but doors gonna door. Then monster traps on the back wall, soffit trap above. Homemade rockwool on front wall and there’s a window between monitors on front wall that’s totally stuffed with rockwool traps.

All the GIK stuff uses the range limiters to try and keep a bit of life in the room.

Then combo foam/wooden slatted diffusers at the first reflection points.

And 3 x 120x60x100mm rockwool traps on the ceiling above the listening position

So mostly everything has trapping on it. That got me about 6db reduction across most of the frequency range, then there’s a null at about 60hz of 6db and a peak around 120hz which sonarworks takes care of.

It’s still lumpy when I’m not in the listening position and massively boomy if you stand by the back wall. So I don’t!

Still switching between monitors and cans to get the bass right…

[jellyjim]

Just a quick follow up question on construction before I build anything else, I'm now coming across various resources - as I go further down the rabbit hole - that suggest traps/absorbers shouldn't have side walls at all and that if they do they effectively become 'reflectors' not absorbers, that somehow the sound enters and bounces around in side?!

Any DIY design I've come across uses 'sides'. All leave front and back unsurfaced, some include an air gap.

I don't have any commercial treatment to compare construction. Having now handled Rockwool, it's pretty spongy stuff, I can't imagine fabric stretched tight across it would have any shape at all.

Panels must have 'sides' surely?!

[Wonks]

As I mentioned earlier, you can make holes in the sides and cover those with fabric to keep the rockwool in.

Yes, you will reflect sound off the hard sides, but it's not like you haven't got lots of other hard surfaces in the room that sound is also bouncing off. And if you made a diffuser the sound would happily bounce off those! Don't get too hung up over it.

Panels are a lot easier to make and hang if they have sides, but cutting out some holes in those will make them a bit more effective. But you don't have to.

[Martin Walker]

Panels are a lot easier to make and hang if they have sides, but cutting out some holes in those will make them a bit more effective. But you don't have to.

Commerical bass traps also tend to have holes in their sides to improve performance - here are some Realtraps (I have six of these in my tiny studio):

[Sam Spoons]

Just a quick follow up question on construction before I build anything else, I'm now coming across various resources - as I go further down the rabbit hole - that suggest traps/absorbers shouldn't have side walls at all and that if they do they effectively become 'reflectors' not absorbers, that somehow the sound enters and bounces around in side?!

Any DIY design I've come across uses 'sides'. All leave front and back unsurfaced, some include an air gap.

I don't have any commercial treatment to compare construction. Having now handled Rockwool, it's pretty spongy stuff, I can't imagine fabric stretched tight across it would have any shape at all.

Panels must have 'sides' surely?!

I refer you to my post up-thread...

Which Rockwool are you talking about? RW3 is pretty self supporting, the panels in my ceiling cloud have nothing supporting the RW3 batts or holding them in the minimalist frame apart from friction and the Cara fabric and they don't sag. If you are talking about more easily available low density RW then yes it is pretty floppy but that's one of the reasons to recommend RW3 which is 60 kg/m3

WRT sides, you only need enough to support the edges of the RW batt, holes probably do increase the efficiency but I doubt you'll hear a difference in a project studio setting.

[jellyjim]

Just a quick follow up question on construction before I build anything else, I'm now coming across various resources - as I go further down the rabbit hole - that suggest traps/absorbers shouldn't have side walls at all and that if they do they effectively become 'reflectors' not absorbers, that somehow the sound enters and bounces around in side?!

Any DIY design I've come across uses 'sides'. All leave front and back unsurfaced, some include an air gap.

I don't have any commercial treatment to compare construction. Having now handled Rockwool, it's pretty spongy stuff, I can't imagine fabric stretched tight across it would have any shape at all.

Panels must have 'sides' surely?!

I refer you to my post up-thread...

Which Rockwool are you talking about? RW3 is pretty self supporting, the panels in my ceiling cloud have nothing supporting the RW3 batts or holding them in the minimalist frame apart from friction and the Cara fabric and they don't sag. If you are talking about more easily available low density RW then yes it is pretty floppy but that's one of the reasons to recommend RW3 which is 60 kg/m3

WRT sides, you only need enough to support the edges of the RW batt, holes probably do increase the efficiency but I doubt you'll hear a difference in a project studio setting.

Thanks Sam

I think I went a bit too far down the rabbit hole last night . I've got a 50mm hole saw. I'll take some material out before doing the fabric. Bog standard Rockwool for these ones that my neighbour had left over. I do plan to use RW3 for any others.

I also ordered the Master Handbook of Acoustics so my adventures can be a little more informed.

[Sam Spoons]

Yes, the normal, 'builder grade' Rockwool is pretty floppy, the extra complexity needed to support it makes it a poor choice for acoustic panels*, I'd keep it for back filling your corner traps and buy the proper stuff (RW3) for the front panels and broad band absorbers. You could simply make a few to my design and stand a couple across each available corner filling the void behind with your neighbours gifted RW.

* If it's the stuff that comes in a roll it's pretty useless...

[James Perrett]

I'd agree with Sam - use RW3 for any surfaces facing the room.

[jellyjim]

* If it's the stuff that comes in a roll it's pretty useless...

Not sure of its origins!

Wickes/B&Q is the easiest way for me to get it. If I put "RW3" into Wickes' search field I get this:

https://www.wickes.co.uk/Rockwool-Sound ... m/p/180766

Is that actually RW3 or are they just matching any reference to Rockwool? The page and linked docs are somewhat short on specs.

[Wonks]

If it doesn't say RW3 on it, it's not RW3.

[Wonks]

You may need to go to a more specialist supplier. This was the first one that popped up when I searched.

https://www.insulationhub.co.uk/product ... nsulation/

[Sam Spoons]

RW3 is not that easy to find, places like Wicks and Travis Perkins don't seem stock it. I did consider the 'sound insulation' panels as an alternative but when I researched the specs I'm pretty sure the density was a fair bit lower (it's really difficult to find as most suppliers don't state the density of the sound insulation slabs). I think it's 45kg/m3 which probably makes it a bit too floppy for best ease of use, RW5 (I think) is 100kg/m3 and is less good as an absorber so 60kg/m3 (i.e. RW3) seems to be considered the best compromise between rigidity and absorption and, fortunately, I managed to find some available locally.

[Sam Spoons]

If it doesn't say RW3 on it, it's not RW3.

Hard to find the density but I think it may be 45kg/m3 which is probably a bit floppy.

[Wonks]

Unfortunately Rockwool don't put easy to identify labels on their products which is a right PITA!

[Music Wolf]

RW3 is a pain to get hold of these days. You usually have to order in bulk and the delivery cost is high. I got RWA45 from Amazon and it does the job, although it is less rigid.

[jellyjim]

Gah!

I can't work out if, by the time I'm done:

1. I'll have spent as much as commercial treatment (particularly if I include my time and labour)

2. Go stark raving mad

3. Have an awesome sounding room



Thanks all, you are marvels

[Hugh Robjohns]

My vote is yes on all three.