Universal MIDI over USB?

[Bob Bickerton]

A numpty question somewhat beyond my comprehension which hopefully the intellectual giants around here can answer.......

I'm looking to buy a Keith McMillen K-Board C https://www.musekinetics.com/?page_id=894 as a portable keyboard to (hopefully) operate a Torso S-4 AND/OR a Roland JU-06A.

I've seen a video of an earlier version of the K-Board operating an S-4, so I'm fairly confident about that, but my question is to do with how 'universal' is MIDI over USB? In other words, if the JU-06A is happy receiving MIDI from my Mac, will it be happy receiving MIDI from the K-Board?

Unfortunately not in a position to try before I buy.

Thanks as always.

Bob

[resistorman]

My experience with McMillen K-boards has been so dismal that I have actually smashed with a brick and thrown away the one I bought rather than inflict another person with the horror of craptastic hardware and even worse "technical support".

I bought the purple one direct from the company at what I thought was a decent price for an mpe mini controller with the caveat that there would be no returns. That should have caused me to reconsider, but I gambled and lost 100 bucks. Plus shipping.

[The Elf]

MIDI is MIDI is MIDI, so I can see no reason these wouldn't work together.

FWIW, for my own 'super portable' keyboard I've been happy enough with this: https://www.amazon.co.uk/RockJam-Blueto ... B0BTPPYY8J

[ajay_m]

A brilliant piece of hardware let down by mediocre firmware. The premise is brilliant, each key has two pressure sensors allowing polyphonic aftertouch as well as pitch bend by tilting the keys. However the pressure sensors themselves differ by up to 3:1 for each sensor as to their sensitivity. An adjustable gain amplifier was added to each key to try and resolve this but since the amp only works for both sensors, and the problem is per sensor, this never really worked well. Hence touch response can be wildly different across keys.
The inbuilt LEDs are prone to causing spontaneous false note triggering because the RF hash they create interferes with the analogue circuitry to detect key presses.
The much vaunted key tilt feature is almost useless because there's an inbuilt delay before the tilt is sensed, making bends at the start of a note impossible.
Finally the original units (not the new coloured ones) used that horrible rubberised plastic that turns to goo over time, requiring a strip down and clean with isopropyl alcohol which alas will remove the legends on the case.

BUT

As I've posted elsewhere, I created a reaper plugin that resolves the sensitivity issues and allows proper pitch bending. They are unique little keyboards and with the plugin are quite amazing. Nothing else this size can do what they can do, so it's a shame kmi never resolved the issues. I did say they were free to take what I did if they wanted to improve the firmware, entirely as open source.

[The Elf]

One side-note...

The KM keyboard is MPE, so I'm assuming the keyboard's control software allows it to be dumbed down to suit the JU-06A. If not then your DAW should be able to do the job. The main thing is to reduce the multiple MPE MIDI channels to a single MIDI channel.

Looks like the JU-06A doesn't respond to mono or poly aftertouch, so that aspect is probably irrelevant.

[Bob Bickerton]

Thanks everyone, especially on the heads up re McMillan/Firmware issues.

To be clear, I intend to go straight from the keyboard to the S-4 and JU-06A.

Compact is super important, and it's not like I'm 'playing' the keys, just triggering a few notes.

Bob

[Bob Bickerton]

A brilliant piece of hardware let down by mediocre firmware.

Given I'm looking at very basic operation, I'm assuming you can switch these problems areas off?

Bob

[The Elf]

To be clear, I intend to go straight from the keyboard to the S-4 and JU-06A.

Compact is super important, and it's not like I'm 'playing' the keys, just triggering a few notes.

I can't see how you're going to connect these together without 'normal' MIDI ports? You can't just plug the USB from one into the other, unless I'm missing something and one of them can act as a USB host?

And you are going to need to have a MIDI thru from one of the receiving devices to chain them. I don't see a thru option in the JU-06A manual. I don't know about the S-4.

Looking at the JU-06A manual, it also appears to not have an omni mode, so you need to ensure the transmitting keyboard is set to single channel.

Bottom line: If you want to connect these devices to each other directly I would suggest finding something with 'normal' MIDI ports and non-MPE.

[DGL.]

I believe they sell a USB-MIDI host adaptor for it so you get regular MIDI ports, plus there are similar products from other manufacturers, even Behringer make one now.
https://www.behringer.com/product.html? ... e=0716-AAH

[ManFromGlass]

I have used the Quneo which worked better than I thought it would and that little Roli 2 octave lighted keyboard which I had low expectations of but it worked great either wired or bluetooth.
I have also used the BopPad but not for live playing, but it should work fine once set up with the app. I would also consider the Korg Nanokeyboard.

[BJG145]

As The Elf says, you can't plug a USB MIDI controller directly into a USB sound module unless it can act as a host. At first glance, it looks like the S-4 supports that but the Roland doesn't.

...and as DGL points out, the solution is to use a host box as a go-between. These are becoming more common nowadays. I hadn't come across the Behringer one.

CME have some good products in this area, including low-latency wireless options.

[Wonks]

But it doesn’t make for a simple mobile setup. A keyboard with a 5-pin MIDI out is a simpler solution.

[Bob Bickerton]

Thanks everyone, that’s starting to make sense.

I’m wondering if there are any users of the Keith’s McMillan, now Muse Kinetics, QuNexus, seems perfect from this review: https://youtu.be/zemTzTXcka0?list=PLb5 ... Q50FJOJOhP

A lot on offer there but I’m worried about some of the reliability issues people have had…..

Bob

[The Elf]

I still think something like the RockJam 25 would provide a simpler solution, albeit not quite so microscopically small.

Also - unless you already have the JU-06A, it would be worth looking at more capable options, IMHO. Have you already ruled out one-box, keyboard built-in solutions, such as the Hydrasynth desktop and similar?

[Bob Bickerton]

I still think something like the RockJam 25 would provide a simpler solution, albeit not quite so microscopically small.

Also - unless you already have the JU-06A, it would be worth looking at more capable options, IMHO. Have you already ruled out one-box, keyboard built-in solutions, such as the Hydrasynth desktop and similar?

In a way an ‘actual’ playable mini keyboard might make more sense, but perhaps I’m getting ahead of myself. I’m after a discreet rig for live performance, but very subtle, creating atmos from playback of natural world samples on the S-4, adding live acoustic instruments etc and using the S-4 as an effects hub. But I’ve only just got the thing (very impressed so far), so I think I need to spend more time with it before I commit to how I’ll use it. I’ve got decent keyboards in the studio so not a problem there.

As to the JU-06A, yes I have that already and (call me Jurassic) I really like the tonality I can get out of it with ease, but then, I’m not sure how it would fit into a live setting either.

Either way the feedback is appreciated, I’ll explore the S-4 more before making a call.

Bob

[The Elf]

As to the JU-06A, yes I have that already and (call me Jurassic) I really like the tonality I can get out of it with ease...

Fair enough. Having had to endure a few (real) Juno-6/60s first time around I'm jaded with single oscillator polysynths.

If you can ever grab a MicroMonsta 2, or a Novation Peak I think there would be another JU-06A on eBay!

[Bob Bickerton]

Just thought I'd report back on my decision.

I've made the call to go with an Arturia MiniLab 3:



I've found previously that the Arturia mini keys are about the best around and this particular unit now includes an arpeggiator, which could prove useful. In theory it should talk to the S-4 over USB (and be powered), but it also has a 5 pin DIN MIDI out port in reserve or for the JU-06.

First thoughts on assignment are to have the four faders operate the levels on each of the four channels of the S-4 (I like faders), then have 4 rotary encoders assigned to filter cut-off on each channel and perhaps the other four for delay feedback or maybe granular level. Wasn't so sure about this colour profile, but actually it provides most contrast between controllers and background.

Obviously a larger profile than my original brief, but the trade-off is more functionality, so I can live with that.

Will report back how it goes when it arrives.

Bob

[ef37a]

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail ... pter-cable

A possibility? Probably the wrong USB plug but adaptors abound.
Or, USB to two male DINS are legion and then just use a DIN gender changer?

Dave.

[The Elf]

The Arturia MiniLab 3 looks like a fairly good option, based on what you've said.

It's a shame it doesn't have an internal battery. That would have removed the need for having a PSU or battery bank attached all the time.

[Bob Bickerton]

The Arturia MiniLab 3 looks like a fairly good option, based on what you've said.

It's a shame it doesn't have an internal battery. That would have removed the need for having a PSU or battery bank attached all the time.

Nah! It'll be powered from the S-4....... apparently!

Bob

[The Elf]

The Arturia MiniLab 3 looks like a fairly good option, based on what you've said.

It's a shame it doesn't have an internal battery. That would have removed the need for having a PSU or battery bank attached all the time.

Nah! It'll be powered from the S-4....... apparently!

Perfect!