Drum tuner VST

[paleface]

hello all

anyone know of a free vst drum tuner ?

[Wonks]

Surely any VST tuner will do if you've got a mic?

I bet your DAW will already have one.

I'm not a drummer but I refurbished some drums for a friend and I just used a standard guitar tuner and then my ears.

[paleface]

i was hoping for a vst

mainly so i can use it at night on bfd3

[Wonks]

But any vst tuner will do. Either stick it as an insert on the bfd3 channel or as a send effect.

And I'm sure your DAW will have one as standard.

[Tomás Mulcahy]

Most drums don’t have a pitch as such. Certainly none of the ones in a regular drum kit. Toms have 2 or 3 distinct pitches at the same time, they are closely spaced, enharmonic and also cause the perceived drop in pitch that is characteristic of the instrument. All things that add up to no pitch.

Are you thinking of tuning them to a key? This won’t work, for the reasons above. You’re better off simply adjusting the so-called tuning dial in BFD until you like the sound. It’s more of a timbre task than a tuning task. Think of it as a powerful eq. The whole point of percussion is to contrast with the pitched instruments.

[Wonks]

Most drums don’t have a pitch as such. Certainly none of the ones in a regular drum kit. Toms have 2 or 3 distinct pitches at the same time, they are closely spaced, enharmonic and also cause the perceived drop in pitch that is characteristic of the instrument. All things that add up to no pitch.

Are you thinking of tuning them to a key? This won’t work, for the reasons above. You’re better off simply adjusting the so-called tuning dial in BFD until you like the sound. It’s more of a timbre task than a tuning task. Think of it as a powerful eq. The whole point of percussion is to contrast with the pitched instruments.

I think a lot of people would disagree that you can't tune a drum to a particular note (at least the initial hit). I've done it myself, so it can be done. Certainly with more electronic drum sounds, tuning them to the song is common.

But I find the pitch control on most drum VSTIs doesn't work well if you try and change the note more than a couple of semitones at most. After that it stops sounding like a real drum.

[Tomás Mulcahy]

I think a lot of people would disagree that you can't tune a drum to a particular note (at least the initial hit). I've done it myself, so it can be done. Certainly with more electronic drum sounds, tuning them to the song is common

Yes I think they would disagree too. I believe that is because given the context of a musical key, you can focus on one of the strong drum modes aka harmonics and ignore the others that are close to it. Because the pattern of drum modes is a Bessel function rather than the harmonic series, none of those harmonics you igonred will fit the same key as the one you choose to tune to. I think the problem there is someone else will pick a different mode so it won't sound the same "pitch" to them as it did to you. If you've ever heard music played on a carrilion you'll have experienced this problem. Chords do not work as you would expect that instrument, even when the music is specially written .

Take a tom out on its own, and you can definitely hear two or three close notes (even with only one skin). In fact, if you are tuning both skins on a real tom, it is essential that you do that so you know how to tension it to get the desired timbre. The pitch bend is psychoacoustic. That is your brain trying to perceive pitch from several closely spaced modes. Again, no harmonic series. A Bessel function.

Pitch is perceived rather than being a thing that exists physically, so there is a grey area here depending on what the percussion instrument is, and what the musical context is. But the fact remains that there is nothing to be gained by using a musical instrument tuner for a kick or snare or tom. The tuner will either radnomly pick one of the modes, or will bounce around between them giving an average that still makes no musical sense. It is the wrong tool for the job.

Think of it this way- can you hum a kick drum or a snare? Probably not. How about a tom? Maybe, it depends.

Electronic drums use various tricks to simulate acoustic characteristics. Most often they only have one strong harmonic (because oscillators are expensive*) and use tricks like short envelopes to hide that and make it sound more acoustic. Using such sounds as an example of things that can have pitch muddies the waters. I agree that the useful range for samples can be limited, but again it depends on the musical context.

*you'd need at least 10 sin wave oscillators to do a decent orchestral bass drum additively. Several more for a kick drum.

[BWC]

Time to give this 3-part series a(nother) listen?

https://www.soundonsound.com/sound-advi ... -1-podcast

[Tomás Mulcahy]

The podcast won't help the OP, since they are using samples not trying to tune real drums.

The problem is the definition of pitch. It's not real as such, it is perceived. I am familiar with Rob Toulson's work. I don't think he is clear about what pitch is. I don't recall him ever addressing the perceptual issues adequately. I recently learned that in Science of Percussion Instruments, by Thomas D Rossing, 2000 there is a chapter: Drums with definite pitch and a chapter: Drums with indefinite pitch. Bass drum is investigated in the latter chapter. That's all I know from that. I haven't been able to get a copy yet. IIRC Rob has referenced that text in his work, but is/ was trying to sell a drum tuning product that in my opinion would have the issues I already outlined. It uses terminoly such as "the fundamental of the drum" which is problematic IMO.

[BWC]

Wasn't meant solely for the OP, and it never hurts (with synths or samples) to increase your understanding of how the real world acoustics work.

I agree that the brain's interpretation of pitch can be a bit "fuzzy", but in most cases, when tuning drums, I think it's safe to assume that the loudest frequency produced by the drum defines the fundamental pitch (It's clear to my ears / brain, so it's not so problematic IMO).

When I first started reading this thread, I thought, "yep Wonks got it, we all have tuners, the OP probably already has (at least) one that'll do." But then I thought, "...though, I would rather use a spectrum analyzer than a tuner for this." In the series, Rob Toulson refers to his app as a "spectrum analyzer", even though its name says "tuner", and it does give you more info than just the "fundamental". I don't own, or desire to own, his app, but I enjoyed the netcasts (sorry everyone, not into pods).

I don't agree with your comment about the pitch drop being psychoacoustic. I think Toulson's explanation (part 2, a little over five minutes in) sounds more plausible. Try striking a kick drum, in the usual way, holding the beater to the head after vs. allowing it to escape normally.

[Wonks]

It’s a bit like a guitar string dropping in pitch slightly a few seconds after plucking it.

The initial hit from the beater puts a lot of energy into the drum head. What was a nice flat surface is now vibrating backwards and forwards. Plot a section through the head at one instant in time and you’ll see it’s all wavy. The length of the wavy line is longer than the length of the straight line representing the head at rest. Which means it’s stretched and its tension has increased.

As the vibrations die away and the amplitude of the waves across the head reduce, so the tension drops accirdingly. Lower tension means a lower note, and so the pitch drops.

[BWC]

It’s a bit like a guitar string dropping in pitch slightly a few seconds after plucking it.

Yes. ...wish I'd thought to put it like that.

[Sam Spoons]

Likewise.

[Tomás Mulcahy]

While that is truly what we percieve, it is not correct in terms of physics. If you look at the harmonics of a tom or kick on a spectrum analyzer you will see what is actually happening. The higher modes decay faster than the lower ones but their frequency remains steady. The brain merges these together as a smooth pitch drop because there is a Bessel function instead of a harmonic series. In the guitar string example, you will see the frequencies move. Same perceived outcome with a different physical cause. Again, that is the main physical difference between a vibrating string and a vibrating membrane. The membrane vibrations are far more complex, the brain cannot discern the pattern to make pitch as it can with the simpler and more harmonic (literally) series of a vibrating string. If you freeze the spectrum of a tom or kick drum you will observe the Bessel function. No nice musical intervals that define the harmonic series, which is essential to perceiving pitch. It probably makes no sense to say the brain cannot discern pitch in a Bessel function- it discerns that as percussion

The interesting part is things like marimba and xlophone have both kinds of spectra, and the brain can tell it is both. When we synthesize these we normally treat them as separate elements. Noise works well to simulate the complexity of the Bessel function.

That is why using a musical instrument tuner will mislead you when trying to tune drums. The tuner does not do perception. It effectively acts like a spectrum analyser set to really wide averaging.

[Wonks]

It is the physics, or at least part of it.

If an electronic tuner can pick out a note when you hit a drum head, and your ear can pick out the same note, then it works. The fact there may be other 'notes' at lower amplitudes that aren't loud enough to sound like two or more separate notes playing is important, but still doesn't detract from the fact that you can at least tune toms with a tuner.

Rick Beato does, and he is primarily a drummer.

https://youtu.be/txSxNhEVzmg?si=8w-fLX82ZORk7VAH

[Tomás Mulcahy]

Linking to another person who is relying on their perception and not physics is missing the point.

I’ve already explained I think, why a tuner is misleading. I’m not sure it’s understood what the fundamental difference is between perception and reality. If you listen without music going on you should be able to hear 2 to 3 “notes” in a tom. In fact you have to hear them if you are to tune a real tom successfully. You’ll hear them from each skin. If you listen.

The harmonics are equal in amplitude, that's one problem. The other is that the one you pick as “the pitch” will be different to what someone else picks. As a musician you will gravitate to the one that is in the key. But they are close and enharmonic ie out of key.

Anyway, I don’t think it ever works to think of the toms as being in a key. Even more so with a kick drum. Who wants the same note on every beat? What happens if you change key? Even seen a drummer retune for a key change?

[Wonks]

If you can hear a note and a tuner can hear a note and you can tune the drum to fit in better with the music, then what's your problem with using a tuner? Even if it is just perception, that's how we hear things. So if it makes the music sound better (and it only really applies to some genres) why don't you want people to do it?

[Tomás Mulcahy]

I
I believe I’ve explained why already. But in a nutshell- A tuner is not perception. Your perception of the so-called pitch will be different to someone else’s. Perception is affected by cognitive bias, such as assumptions. Also it’s not that “I don’t want people to do it” that’s hilarious. I’m trying to explain an effective way of achieving a satisfactory drum sound. One that will be perceived in the same way by your audience.

[paleface]

bloody nora

you turn your back for 5 minutes and all hell breaks loose

thanks for the replys gentlemen

in the ened i just decided to keep the drums at standard tuning

they sound fine

i was just obssessively trying to find something better

[BigRedX]

To the OP what exactly did you want something that tells you the "pitch" of your drums or something that replicates the effect of "tuning" the drums that can be applied to existing drum samples or recordings?

[Wonks]

BFD3 already has a pitch control for each drum.

[Wonks]

Tomás, I've looked into the maths a bit more and I think you are getting confused between the different modes of the Bessel function and that they apply to a drum head all at the same time and with the same amplitude. A lot will depend on where the drum is struck but in general you'll excite it in mode 0, where it does have a fundamental frequency of a very large amplitude and some much smaller extra frequencies at a higher pitch but much lower amplitude.

Hitting the drum near the edge will excite the drum into mode 1 or 2, which will give increasingly higher frequencies, but hitting the drum somewhere near the centre you will get mode 0 vibration. That's its most natural mode.

Here's Rob Toulson (of the SOS drum podcast) hitting and measuring a tom with a frequency analyser app.

https://youtu.be/0pyTg3B3_NI?si=DwJBx7TtzcsZD7rG&t=89

You can see a very definite single frequency fundamental note, with some much lower amplitude upper frequencies.

Yes, you can get a drum head to vibrate in Bessel function modes 1, 2, 3 etc, but you really need to excite the head at those particular frequencies.

https://youtu.be/v4ELxKKT5Rw?si=Y6osX_B8uFXNwUlm

[BigRedX]

BFD3 already has a pitch control for each drum.

How does that work?

My understanding of drum "pitches" is that they are based on the size of the drum as well as the tension (and evenness of tension) in both the top and bottom (if fitted) heads, so you can't just change the overall pitch as it won't have the same effect as just changing the tension in the head(s) as normally tuning would.

[Sam Spoons]

It is easy to electronically change the pitch of a sample, the question is how far can you go before it stops sounding realistic (assuming realistic is what you desire)?

Real drums can only go so far, much in the same way as guitar or bass strings can, before sounding bad or simply breaking.

[Wonks]

They are samples, so like any sampler, you can raise and lower the pitch. And like any sampler, it only works well over a small pitch range. I’ve only ever nudged a drum pitch up or down slightly, as any more just sounds wrong. Better to pick a different size drum from the kit selection.