Stuttering in Reaper on my cheap laptop

[garrettendi]

So I have been working on a new song on my cheapo laptop - Intel Pentium Silver CPU, SSD drive, Intel HD graphics and 8GB RAM. I have my UA Volt 2 interface in another room but when I'm chilling on the sofa with the laptop to work on some drum plugins I'm forced to use ASIO4ALL on the in-built sound card. I'm using Jamstix on one track, feeding MIDI to another two tracks, one with Ugritone Drums and the other with Hexagon 85. I then have a fourth track with just 4 bars of audio.

I'm getting some stuttering and distortion, but when I freeze the drum tracks, this goes away.

I know ASIO4ALL is crap, so am I right in thinking the problem will likely go away when I use my Volt 2 with UA drivers? I can do this when mixing seriously, not to mention when I record my guitars which would need the Volt 2 obviously.

Only reason I'm using ASIO4ALL is when messing about on the sofa!

[Drew Stephenson]

Yes it will probably go away when you switch back to the Volt. Try increasing the buffer size in the meantime and see if that helps.

[garrettendi]

Thanks muchly Drew! I'll play with those settings, until I can get to the Volt 2.

This is what I get for using ASIO4ALL!

[Aled Hughes]

Might be worth trying Windows' native WASAPI driver instead of Asio4All? I'm sure that can go down to lower latencies than what Windows previously had.

[garrettendi]

Might be worth trying Windows' native WASAPI driver instead of Asio4All? I'm sure that can go down to lower latencies than what Windows previously had.

I was under the impression that WASAPI was not fit for purpose? I'm using Windows 11 24H2.

[Aled Hughes]

Might be worth trying Windows' native WASAPI driver instead of Asio4All? I'm sure that can go down to lower latencies than what Windows previously had.

I was under the impression that WASAPI was not fit for purpose? I'm using Windows 11 24H2.

Well, if it does what you need then it's fit for purpose! I haven't tried it much, but I seem to recall I could use at low enough latencies to play some live VST instruments.

If you don't need to play anything in real-time then you can raise the buffer and then I'm almost certain Windows' native driver could comfortably play back your track.

[garrettendi]

Thanks! I'm glad that no-one thinks it's my potato-specced laptop.

[James Perrett]

I was under the impression that WASAPI was not fit for purpose? I'm using Windows 11 24H2.

As I understand it, if you are using ASIO4All then you are actually using WASAPI but ASIO4All is making it look like ASIO to Reaper. So you can possibly make things more efficient by using WASAPI directly.

However, you don't have a particularly powerful CPU so stick to Reaper's own plug-ins as much as possible and freeze tracks that use processor or graphics intensive third party plug-ins.

[garrettendi]

As I understand it, if you are using ASIO4All then you are actually using WASAPI but ASIO4All is making it look like ASIO to Reaper. So you can possibly make things more efficient by using WASAPI directly.

However, you don't have a particularly powerful CPU so stick to Reaper's own plug-ins as much as possible and freeze tracks that that use processor or graphics intensive third party plug-ins.

Thanks. So the CPU is an issue. I've been sticking to Tukan's JSFX plugins except the virtual instruments. Freezing the two drum VSTIs does help matters.

[garrettendi]

Further info, freezing all the drums last night made the problem go away, but it's going to be annoying to keep freezing/unfreezing when I change things. Is it at least possible to freeze the tracks with just the drum VST frozen, then put Tukan's JSFX plugins on the frozen track so I can at least tweak EQs/reverbs/channel strips etc?

EDIT: Never mind! Google says you can freeze up to a specific plugin, so I'll get the drums written, then freeze just the VSTIs, leaving the JSFX plugins tweakable! That is MUCH better than freezing/unfreezing constantly. No different to my recording a live drum kit and mixing it after tracking.

[Drew Stephenson]

EDIT: Never mind! Google says you can freeze up to a specific plugin, so I'll get the drums written, then freeze just the VSTIs, leaving the JSFX plugins tweakable!

This.

[garrettendi]

I'm impressed with Cockos for providing all these little tiny things into Reaper that make a big difference to users like me with potato PCs.

Also: I'm able to use x86 plugins!

[Moroccomoose]

Ooo! A fellow Jamstixer! I'd be lost without it. Another option might be to print (record) the MIDI output from Jamstix. Then you can do away with Jamstix altogether. That might relieve the CPU burden without need to freeze. (Actually, I would just de-activate the Jamstix plugin, but leave it in place so if you did want to tweak, you could come back to it and re-print the MIDI). But if it was a small tweak to the drum pattern, you could do it directly in the MIDI.

The same would be true for the drum samples. You could print the dry audio from the drum sounds VST and then deactivate that and EQ/Reverb the audio track.

Its about trying to remove remove as much live processing as you can.

By de-activating the plugins (As opposed to deleting), if you transferred to a more powerful rig, you'd still be able to re-activate and recall.

It all comes down to your preferred workflow. The other suggestions are good, just offering another cat to skin!

Stu.

[garrettendi]

Thanks Stu. I think the plan is this week to get the drums "written" with Jamstix, freeze the VSTIs on the two drum tracks, then disable Jamstix entirely and mix everything as I would if I had recorded live audio.

Are JSFX plugins good on the CPU? I'm getting mixed messages from Google regarding JSFX plugins and Tukan in particular. I've fallen in love with all things Tukan so would love to use them.

[Moroccomoose]

I don't know about the JSFX load, I guess it is what ever pushes it over the edge. Is there a CPU load meter in Reaper? Maybe you can see what has the most impact enabling and disabling different plugins. Its a bit like in Apollo 13 when they are trying to find the right order to re-fire up the Command Module for re-entry!

Unless things are very moved on, my way of thinking was that the hierarchy of CPU stress was:

Sample based VSTis Highest
Time based FX (Reverbs, chorus delay type fx)
VSTis (non-sample based Synths)
FX/EQ (compression,EQ, distortion) Lowest

[ef37a]

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/177213565059 ... R5qe5en0ZQ

One of the above (and I have seen the Mk2 for silly money but never tried one) will give you very low latency with NI ASIO drivers. The mic pres are very quiet if not very "gainy" and the headphone drive level fairly weak but the KA6 is otherwise a very good interface...WAY better than any laptop card!

Ooops! That's the D8 DJ unit (still, could be interesting? ) I thought it was the KA6 Mk1 must still be a lot about?
Dave.

[James Perrett]

Thanks. So the CPU is an issue. I've been sticking to Tukan's JSFX plugins except the virtual instruments. Freezing the two drum VSTIs does help matters.

I find that even Tukan's FX are a little hungry thanks to their graphics so I only use them when I feel I need a bit of flavour. For most things ReaEQ and ReaComp are fine.

[garrettendi]

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/177213565059 ... R5qe5en0ZQ

One of the above (and I have seen the Mk2 for silly money but never tried one) will give you very low latency with NI ASIO drivers. The mic pres are very quiet if not very "gainy" and the headphone drive level fairly weak but the KA6 is otherwise a very good interface...WAY better than any laptop card!

Ooops! That's the D8 DJ unit (still, could be interesting? ) I thought it was the KA6 Mk1 must still be a lot about?
Dave.

I already have a UA Volt 2 in the studio room, so I'm covered. I'm only using ASIO4ALL when I'm not in the studio itself.

[garrettendi]

I find that even Tukan's FX are a little hungry thanks to their graphics so I only use them when I feel I need a bit of flavour. For most things ReaEQ and ReaComp are fine.

Yes I have noticed with some of my plugins, not just Tukan that not having the UI open makes it much more stable. IK's MODO Bass and Tukan's Bass Station S2 stutter when I have the UIs open, but run perfect when they are closed.

[James Perrett]

Sample based VSTis Highest
Time based FX (Reverbs, chorus delay type fx)
VSTis (non-sample based Synths)
FX/EQ (compression,EQ, distortion) Lowest

With the introduction of convolution things have changed a bit nowadays. Convolution based amp sims (some of the JS ones) or reverbs (like ReaVerb) are going to be fairly processor hungry while basic sample playback doesn't take much processiing power at all.

Basic chorus and delay is also very easy on the processor but when you add certain types of modelling the processing load goes up.

The Reaper team designed some very efficient display algorithms for their own plug-ins so they should be your first port of call for any processing. If you go to the View menu and choose Performance Meter you can see exactly which plug-ins and tracks are using up your CPU cycles.

[Hugh Robjohns]

I know ASIO4ALL is crap...

I think that's a little unfair on Asio4all ! It's often a practical solution to a problem when you don't have access to more appropriate drivers and hardware. Sound quality-wise, it does a perfectly good job. And in some cases, it can actually perform better than generic ASIO drivers!

[garrettendi]

I think that's a little unfair on Asio4all ! It's often a practical solution to a problem when you don't have access to more appropriate drivers and hardware. Sound quality-wise, it does a perfectly good job. And in some cases, it can actually perform better than generic ASIO drivers!

I happily accept correction! I've just seen a lot of moaning and griping about it on Reddit and Facebook groups.

[The Elf]

Depending on the chipset in your computer you may find that you can utilise native ASIO drivers. Realtek offer this, for example.

It can be a bit faffy - often you have to specifically select between speakers and headphones at driver level, for example. But it would be worth checking to see if it's an option for you.

[garrettendi]

Depending on the chipset in your computer you may find that you can utilise native ASIO drivers. Realtek offer this, for example.

It can be a bit faffy - often you have to specifically select between speakers and headphones at driver level, for example. But it would be worth checking to see if it's an option for you.

Thanks Elf. I'll put that on the list of things to try, but I'll be honest if some of the easier stuff doesn't work, I might have to just have to use the Volt 2 whenever I'm tinkering about. Hopefully that won't be the case, as I like being in the snug room with my family while I work on the more digital aspects of making music...

[ef37a]

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/177213565059 ... R5qe5en0ZQ

One of the above (and I have seen the Mk2 for silly money but never tried one) will give you very low latency with NI ASIO drivers. The mic pres are very quiet if not very "gainy" and the headphone drive level fairly weak but the KA6 is otherwise a very good interface...WAY better than any laptop card!

Ooops! That's the D8 DJ unit (still, could be interesting? ) I thought it was the KA6 Mk1 must still be a lot about?
Dave.

I already have a UA Volt 2 in the studio room, so I'm covered. I'm only using ASIO4ALL when I'm not in the studio itself.

Yes G but I meant get another cheap but good interface which uses ASIO drivers.

Dave.