Which DAW and Controller have the best integration?

[Qstick333]

I have arthritis that is getting worse and need to move to a control surface to avoid some of the mouse usage. I've been on Reaper for years and love it, but I am absolutely willing to move on. I'm pretty lousy with understanding all of the software (CSI, etc...) solutions that I read about.

What DAW and control surface will work best together, hopefully fully featured, and out of the box with minimal customization? Ideally, I'd like multiple faders and the ability to use the faders, pan, solo/mute, automate and transport. Beyond that, anything would be a bonus. That would at least help me get automation written and get initial levels and panning taken care of almost exclusively without a mouse.

Plugin control seems great, but I doubt I have the ability or time to get it going. My hands only allow so much in a day, and it won't be spent fumbling for hours

Thank you!

[Wonks]

I'd certainly have l look at the Presonus faderport 8 and Studio One.

It comes with a perpetual license of PreSonus Studio One Pro, which IIRC, gives you a year of free upgrades (after which you either keep using it as-is or swap to the Annual+ subscription plan which gives you access to a lot more features and is roughly equivalent to the cost of a perpetual license version).

And Studio One is a very good DAW. Not perfect but then no DAW is. Integration is pretty much complete. There are a few user assignable buttons where you can select what they do yourself, but most buttons have a set function that is already connected to the DAW software.

Obviously it will cost more than Reaper will ever cost you, but if you can live without the updates or dip in and out of the Annual+ subscription, it's not too expensive.

[Qstick333]

I'd certainly have l look at the Presonus faderport 8 and Studio One.

It comes with a perpetual license of PreSonus Studio One Pro, which IIRC, gives you a year of free upgrades (after which you either keep using it as-is or swap to the Annual+ subscription plan which gives you access to a lot more features and is roughly equivalent to the cost of a perpetual license version).

And Studio One is a very good DAW. Not perfect but then no DAW is. Integration is pretty much complete. There are a few user assignable buttons where you can select what they do yourself, but most buttons have a set function that is already connected to the DAW software.

Obviously it will cost more than Reaper will ever cost you, but if you can live without the updates or dip in and out of the Annual+ subscription, it's not too expensive.

Thank you for the reply. I will have to look at Studio One. I don't mind switching DAWs, I just don't want to do it multiple times so this feels a bit like my last change.

I can live with the added cost, especially if I can get the benefit of a fully integrated controller that sets up with minimum hassle.

Thank you!

[OneWorld]

I have arthritis that is getting worse and need to move to a control surface to avoid some of the mouse usage. I've been on Reaper for years and love it, but I am absolutely willing to move on. I'm pretty lousy with understanding all of the software (CSI, etc...) solutions that I read about.

What DAW and control surface will work best together, hopefully fully featured, and out of the box with minimal customization? Ideally, I'd like multiple faders and the ability to use the faders, pan, solo/mute, automate and transport. Beyond that, anything would be a bonus. That would at least help me get automation written and get initial levels and panning taken care of almost exclusively without a mouse.

Plugin control seems great, but I doubt I have the ability or time to get it going. My hands only allow so much in a day, and it won't be spent fumbling for hours

Thank you!

I use Cubase, because I am familiar with it, and have invested in it considerably over the years and I have used almost every controller known under the sun and none of them fulfill my needs, that said some have proved more useful than others. Nothing can be all things to all people.

I have found learning as many keyboard shortcuts as I can, and in Cubase, you can create macros, I am sure you can in other DAWS as well.

I use a foot controller for transport controls and have a few of the switches on the foot control assigned to macros, so for example I have one macro that stops recording, deletes the last take, goes back to the left locator, and starts recording again.

I also bought a Novation Launch Control which is designed to work with Ableton. However Cubase has a 'learn' function whereby the user can 'customize' the controller. It has a matrix of 8x8 pads which work as 'switches' +16 extra pads, 48 of the pads are assigned to track selection, so I can select any of 48 tracks at random, which I think is really useful. The other pads are configured to select from a set of commands I allocated to them. I would be happier using proper touch controls, the pads are a bit 'spongy'

I have recently bought a Nektar cs12 which is a single fader controller with quite a useful range of buttons and rotary controllers. The cs12 has one particular feature, in that it doesn't use the more common MCU protocol. The MCU assigns faders in groups of 8 and to move from say track 8 to track 9, you have to bank across, using the bank controls.

However, the cs12 'follows' track selection - remember I wrote the Novation allows me to select any of 48 tracks at random? well that comes in useful with a single fader controller, I jump from say track 3 to track 30, and the fader operates on the selected track. The cs12 also works as a quasi channel strip for the selected track. The cs12 also has similar functionality for the Logic DAW.

If you use an 8 fader controller, you might well still us the MCU protocol, yes you can leap from any of the track 1 to 8, and the fader follows that choice, but go beyond 8, and you have to bank along in jumps of 8. If you choose this option, your mixer in Cubase(or whatever) will have to be configged accordingly eg if I have 24 tracks and have 8 MIDI, 8 audio and 8VSTi then they will have to appear in the mixer - just saying, this had me going round in circles to figure out why, when I banked from 1-8 to 9-16, the faders didn't worked - reason, they weren't added to the mixer config DOH

What helped me was it dawned on me, created my own templates and treat my DAW exactly as I would a hard disk recorder - eg track 1 is always MIDI piano, track 2 is always MIDI bass, and so on, and I always leave some tracks empty, to accommodate other instrument I might not use all the time, and/or for my drum tracks, I use a VSTi drumkit, Groove Agent, and have one of 8 tracks always set to 1- kick, 2 - snare etc etc

That way, when I press whatever button, I know exactly what it does.

The mouse cannot be unplugged and given to the cat, but my dependence on it is much reduced. It will take time to set up and acclimatize, but it becomes a habit after a while, just takes some planning.

I also have a Faderport 16, which has 16 flying faders, but I find I am using the cs12 in favour of it these days, or because of the 16 faders (then bank across as described) I might use it for mixdown, have the 16 faders at my fingers is more useful at mixdown than when tracking so I am going to hold onto it.

I see Wonks mentions Studio One, the Faderport is optimized for Studio ONe, there is a Cubase Template but it isn't as comprehensive as the Faderport + Studio One combination. the cs12 (single fader bear in mind) is optimized for Logic and/or Cubase, it might have similar for Reaper but it pays to check of course

[ore_terra]

Pro Tools with Avid surfaces.

Cubase with Avid surfaces (this is what I use).

In the last couple of years integration with Cubase have improved a lot in other surfaces such as Console 1 Fader mkIII. Actually I’m thinking to change my 2 Avid S1 for a Fader mkIII…

[gtsos]

Here’s my latest attempt to solve the issue - as someone with pretty severe RSI also looking to minimise mouse clicking - I’m using Softube Console 1 for most in-the-box mixing / plugin control - and SSL UF1 as DAW transport / DAW shortcuts, and master fader.

Beauty is they both work well with a range of DAWs, I am mainly in Ableton but also use Logic/Luna occasionally.

And as an UA Apollo user, C1 has the ‘Apollo central’ mode for additional control over UA’s console software and plugins.

[Sam Spoons]

I would have said the pain of learning a new DAW would be considerably more that of setting up a hardware controller to work with Reaper. And I would look into a Behringer X-Touch for the controller.

[Forum Admin]

What DAW and control surface will work best together, hopefully fully featured, and out of the box with minimal customization? Ideally, I'd like multiple faders and the ability to use the faders, pan, solo/mute, automate and transport. Beyond that, anything would be a bonus.

I agree with Wonks here -- I am a PreSonus Studio One Professional longterm user, and own a Faderport Classic single-fader, Faderport 8 and Faderport 16. S1Pro fully integrates completely with the Controller (Faderport), and S1Pro has keyboard shortcut mapping templates for Cubase, Pro Tools, Logic etc for those DAW users who wish to migrate but keep muscle-memory functions for key commands.

Faderport offers all the hardware knobs, buttons and faders plus clever plug-in control of native plugins, but easy to map 3rd party ones too.

This old video gives a useful Overview of the core functionality but latest firmware offers plenty of extras beyond this:

https://youtu.be/3374tmJ6c4Q

Before I put my studio gear in storage and downsized, I was taking advantage of the firmware update that permits cascading of multiple Faderport hardware controllers (I had Faderport 8 and Faderport 16) to be used in sync, with the added bonus of two sets of transport and buttons.

This user video details what is possible and how to configure it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OzIpBMYOZM

[Matt Houghton]

It kinda depends what, other than the faders, you want to be able to do sans mouse. Eg mixing with channel strip plug-ins, with one knob per function, or perhaps detailed audio editing work where you need to scan across the timeline and make complex edits with minimum user input... or all that and more!

I'm less keen than others on the PreSonus controllers. The biggest disadvantage for me is that while there are plenty of faders there are nowhere near enough knobs/encoders. So it occupies a good chunk of desk space without giving me what I need. I'd rather have, say, a touchscreen for channel selection, and a single fader + lots of encoders and buttons.

For the fader side of things, any MCU-based device should give you what you need with Reaper, without having to learn a new DAW. Many give you both a fader and an encoder per channel. Some, eg the Behringer one, can be linked together so that the encoders of multiple units work as one... though I've no experience of using that with Reaper.

You might think about one of the Elgato Streamdecks too.

Reaper has so many advantages over other DAWs when it comes to building and triggering 'macros' — or 'custom actions' as Reaper calls it. The combination of these, keyboard/MIDI shortcuts and, particularly, mouse modifiers, is so powerful. And note that while they may be called 'mouse' modifiers, you can use other HIDs — for example, I use a trackpad that can recognise simple 1 or 2 finger taps and gestures. Yes, all this might take a little configuration — but I'd wager it's a lot less work than learning a new DAW (and less expensive to boot).

[Forum Admin]

I'm less keen than others on the PreSonus controllers. The biggest disadvantage for me is that while there are plenty of faders there are nowhere near enough knobs/encoders. So it occupies a good chunk of desk space without giving me what I need. I'd rather have, say, a touchscreen for channel selection, and a single fader + lots of encoders and buttons.

I disagree here Matt. I actually prefer using the faders as "knobs" as I can see their saved position instantly when using the Faderport to control a plugin/channel strip, say, (and a 100mm fader resolution beats most rotary encoders) you just need to utilise the central set of vertical Buttons to switch, for instance, Pan controls to Pan-on-faders. You have complete freedom in S1Pro to allocate your own functions to the FP buttons around the large knob wheel.

Reaper has so many advantages over other DAWs when it comes to building and triggering 'macros' — or 'custom actions' as Reaper calls it. The combination of these, keyboard/MIDI shortcuts and, particularly, mouse modifiers, is so powerful.

Studio One Pro is equally powerful when it comes to writing Macros and assigning to your keys of choice, as well as creating entire Macro Toolbar(s). There's a whole community also giving away their Macros, Toolbars and Sound Sets etc available directly within S1Pro's Browser tabs.

This page and videos detail how extensive its Macro creation can be:

https://s1manual.presonus.com/en/Conten ... oolbar.htm

And note that while they may be called 'mouse' modifiers, you can use other HIDs — for example, I use a trackpad that can recognise simple 1 or 2 finger taps and gestures. Yes, all this might take a little configuration — but I'd wager it's a lot less work than learning a new DAW (and less expensive to boot).

Genuine question: what is a HID? Never seen that acronym before.

[James Perrett]

Genuine question: what is a HID? Never seen that acronym before.

Human Interface Device (I think).

[Wonks]

Or "Houghton Interface Device" in Matt's case.

[Matt Houghton]

Genuine question: what is a HID? Never seen that acronym before.

Human Interface Device (I think).

Yes. This. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_interface_device

[Matt Houghton]

I disagree here Matt.

We'll agree to disagree. You can do all that with other controllers — yet still have more encoders available for other things without having to bank or switch

Studio One Pro is equally powerful when it comes to writing Macros and assigning to your keys of choice, as well as creating entire Macro Toolbar(s). There's a whole community also giving away their Macros, Toolbars and Sound Sets etc available directly within S1Pro's Browser tabs.

Yes, I realise they 'borrowed' the mouse modifiers, scripting support and more from Reaper But equally powerful? Are you a betting man? More to the point, OP already uses Reaper... seems silly to move DAWs just to support a particular control surface, when their current DAW could work perfectly well with other controllers. Learning any DAW to the level of your current one takes a serious chunk of time.

(edited to fix quote from Forum Admin - Andy )

[ajay_m]

With Reaper, the free DrivenByMoss control surface plugin supports both MCU and HUI quite extensively (Reaper's native support is fairly weak), so I would expect it to integrate pretty well with the Faderport. I am using DrivenByMoss with my Yamaha DM3 mixer and although that mixer only supports the older HUI protocol, nonetheless, the integration through DrivenByMoss is extensive. I have record arm, mute, solo, bank switching by one or eight faders at a time, the scribble strips and metering work, automation works as well and the desk shows the project timeline and allows me to move around using the rotary encoder. Transport controls also work of course.
When using automation the faders also track automation movements. But they are not touch-sensitive on the DM3 so you can't overwrite by grabbing a fader while replaying automation, you have to switch to automation write mode. On the DM3 you do this by using the touchscreen on the desk, in DAW controller view. Whereas the FaderPort faders are touch sensitive so you *ought* to be able to do this using that device. Also you have dedicated automation mode buttons, which should work the same way.

So I would expect at least that level of integration as above with the Faderport, though I notice that it doesn't seem to have a timeline display. The DM3 provides this as part of its dedicated DAW control view page, and DrivenByMoss correctly updates this. Although scrub and shuttle (exposed on this page) aren't available through DrivenByMoss in HUI mode they may well be in MCU mode (which the Faderport, but not the DM3, supports).

I am not sure whether Bitfocus Companion used with a StreamDeck and the Reaper plugin can expose a timeline display - there are a ton of Reaper commands available through the plugin that you can map to buttons but I haven't looked to see if there's a timeline you can bind back to a variable and then display on the StreamDeck.

[Kayvon]

I’ve recently moved over to Studio One with a Faderport V2 and it’s so nice to have dedicated controls even though I’ve always tried to use as many keyboard shortcuts as possible. The best thing for me is I’ve reassigned F4 (Marker button shift function) to open/close the plugin instrument interface which I found enormously frustrating that Ableton Live had issues doing.

One thing to mention seeing as you have arthritis is that the rubber buttons require somewhat of a firm or slow press, you can’t tap them lightly like a mechanical keyboard. I’m not sure if they will ease up. Tactile mechanical switches are most often my preference.

All of the third party solutions seem annoying to me. I was tempted by SSL/Softube controllers etc but they always get weird with banking. It’s comforting having the first party integration that the Presonus gives.

It’s been a delight coming over to Studio One from Ableton Live as a previous Cubase user (sufferer!). It feels less slick than Ableton Live in a few respects but much easier to route things.

The Faderport V2 is £154 at Amazon at the moment but I got it for £134 the other day on sale. Presonus were offering me Studio One for something like $99 but by getting the Faderport with bundled S1 I effectively got the DAW for ~£40.

Highly recommended so far either way. Both Faderport and Studio One. With the proviso about the buttons not being the most satisfying/light to engage. Plus I’m glad I went for the single fader over the 8/16 models which for me would’ve taken up too much deskspace and led to confusion with banking etc.

Also of note is the Link function whereby most controls after a mouse click can be controlled with the encoder. Doesn’t work on everything, some 3rd party plugins it hasn’t worked on and also value fields.

[Drew Stephenson]

I'm a Reaper user and have 3* control surfaces in constant use.
- A Behringer BCF2000. 8 Faders, 8 pan pots, basic track and transport control. If / when this dies I will have no hesitation in replacing it with an X-touch. I run it using the Klinke extension (have a shufti on the Reaper forum) and it does exactly what you'd want it to do.
- A Korg NanoKontrol2. I have this set up for the first 8 channels of my template, which are my bus channels. I don't actually use the faders very often but the mute / solo / select buttons and step forward / backwards buttons are in constant use.
- A Qube Mobi One. This also provides transport control and further track and project controls, but mainly serves as a hardware control for a channel strip and a couple of other key plugins.

With this combo I find I only really need to use the mouse for editing, mixing I can do pretty much just using knobs, faders and buttons.
For the Korg and the Qube, a key consideration was installing ReaLearn (donationware from Helgoboss - again, check out the Reaper forum). This really unlocks another level of useability from most control surfaces.

* Well, technically 4 because I have an Akai Midimix as well but that's solely configured as a soft-synth controller.

[Qstick333]

I would have said the pain of learning a new DAW would be considerably more that of setting up a hardware controller to work with Reaper. And I would look into a Behringer X-Touch for the controller.

X-Touch seems to be getting a lot of love on the forums. I'm a little concerned about whether I can get the CSI code correct, but it seems like it might be ideal

[Qstick333]

With Reaper, the free DrivenByMoss control surface plugin supports both MCU and HUI quite extensively (Reaper's native support is fairly weak), so I would expect it to integrate pretty well with the Faderport. I am using DrivenByMoss with my Yamaha DM3 mixer and although that mixer only supports the older HUI protocol, nonetheless, the integration through DrivenByMoss is extensive. I have record arm, mute, solo, bank switching by one or eight faders at a time, the scribble strips and metering work, automation works as well and the desk shows the project timeline and allows me to move around using the rotary encoder. Transport controls also work of course.
When using automation the faders also track automation movements. But they are not touch-sensitive on the DM3 so you can't overwrite by grabbing a fader while replaying automation, you have to switch to automation write mode. On the DM3 you do this by using the touchscreen on the desk, in DAW controller view. Whereas the FaderPort faders are touch sensitive so you *ought* to be able to do this using that device. Also you have dedicated automation mode buttons, which should work the same way.

How is the installation of the DrivenByMoss software? I've watched a few youtube videos, but I am mostly still confused. The functionality looks great, but I am pretty intimidated by the installation.

[ajay_m]

It's simple to install DrivenByMoss. You install it, add it as a control surface in Reaper and then you go into its own config screen that lets you set protocol etc.
This is a one time setup process and after that it should just work. I haven't had any issues with it and the author is passionate about his project and has continuously enhanced it and addressed any issues over the years.

[Spy1]

Greetings all, hope you're doing well, long time no post.

To the OP, I too am a (mostly) Reaper user, and I use a combination of Maschine Studio, Console 1 (mk II and original Fader), and Streamdeck to control the majority of its functions.

Like others have said, it's not the only game in town when it comes to setting up powerful macros, but because you already know and use it, and there is a very passionate and helpful group of users on the Reaper forums (and elsewhere), it makes sense to stick with it, IMHO.

Many of Reaper's actions (to use Cockos' terminology) are controllable by MIDI, so you don’t need to rely on HUI, MCU, or any third party protocols or wrappers to set things up. I've found Kenny Gioia's videos to be a great resource, and this one is of particular relevance to your query: https://youtu.be/jE5lrzNsk-A?si=Gk-QI_i ... urce=ZTQxO

HTH.

[Qstick333]

Greetings all, hope you're doing well, long time no post.

To the OP, I too am a (mostly) Reaper user, and I use a combination of Maschine Studio, Console 1 (mk II and original Fader), and Streamdeck to control the majority of its functions.

Like others have said, it's not the only game in town when it comes to setting up powerful macros, but because you already know and use it, and there is a very passionate and helpful group of users on the Reaper forums (and elsewhere), it makes sense to stick with it, IMHO.

Many of Reaper's actions (to use Cockos' terminology) are controllable by MIDI, so you don’t need to rely on HUI, MCU, or any third party protocols or wrappers to set things up. I've found Kenny Gioia's videos to be a great resource, and this one is of particular relevance to your query: https://youtu.be/jE5lrzNsk-A?si=Gk-QI_i ... urce=ZTQxO

HTH.

Thanks for the link to the video, I will check that out.

What do you use Streamdeck for? I find it fascinating but have never seen it in person and am not sure I can figure out what the appropriate use for it is. It seems like a great solution, I'm just not sure I know the problem

[Spy1]

Honestly, I probably under use it. Rather than trying to remember a load of keyboard shortcuts, I assign them to the buttons on the Streamdeck (making sure that I label them in a way that makes sense to me), and then push the appropriate one as necessary.

For example, I have one 'page' with buttons to open, close, save, and save as projects, plus other top level functions, such as opening a new project tab, switching between open tabs, opening and closing the video window, etc. Basically anything that I want/need to do on a regular (or irregular) basis. I just copy, or, if one doesn't already exist, create a shortcut in Reaper and save it as a hot key on the Streamdeck and Robert's your mum's sister's baby daddy. I have the XL version, which has 32 buttons to play with, but there are other options with more or less buttons, and even one with knobs, so the choice is yours.

Is it totally necessary? Not really, but once you've programmed it the way you want it, you'll wonder why you didn't think of it sooner...

[Spy1]

P.S. please excuse the typos, I am at work posting on my phone.

[Sam Spoons]

What do you use Streamdeck for? I find it fascinating but have never seen it in person and am not sure I can figure out what the appropriate use for it is. It seems like a great solution, I'm just not sure I know the problem

I have a Streamdeck mini and use it mostly for transport controls, mainly when recording (and I have a drop marker button). But in Reaper it can do anything you can set up a keyboard shortcut for (which means nearly anything you want) and you can have multiple pages so you are not restricted to the number of buttons on your Streamdeck (which is particularly handy with the mini only having 6). The major icing on the cake though is the ability to create custom icons for each button on each page.