Quiet home recording solutions

[rggillespie]

I was hoping someone might have a solution for quiet or silent electric guitar recording. I had no neighbours until recently and was very happy mic’ing the amp and going from there. Now that’s no longer an option, and I’ve tried a line 6 pod, amplitude, Strymon iridium and UA Woodrow pedal, UA lion software. All of them leave me cold and uninspired, the Woodrow is the best and the UA software versions of their pedals I find quite dire. I was just wondering what other solutions other forum users are using and enjoying at home? I use my silver fender champ with no pedals at the volume of an acoustic now, that’s as loud as I can feasibly go. I’ve resorted to recording my acoustic and not doing much electric at all. Maybe is just the sound of the electric played back through monitors or headphones that doesn’t work for me, and that can’t be overcome. Is there an another option I could look at though?

[BigRedX]

I've found in situations where the instruments are too loud for getting a good sound with home recording the most effective thing to do is pay for some time in a proper studio that doesn't have these constraints.

[ajay_m]

What about a software solution like Guitar Rig? I am not a guitarist but sending RealStrat through some of its presets sounds pretty impressive to me as a keyboard player.

[Sam Spoons]

When you say the sounds leave you "cold and uninspired" do you mean while recording or after the fact while mixing? If it's while recording then I'm not sure if there's a practical solution apart from keeping on trying different modelling devices until you find one that you can live with (but it may simply that you need to hear a certain minimum volume to get your creative juices flowing). But if it's the latter then recording the dry, DI, sound of the guitar alongside and reamping through the Champ when the neighbours are out might work.

I'm lucky that my home studio is sufficiently isolated from the neighbours that I can play without disturbing them but I understand that it is hard to play electric guitar with passion and feeling at transistor radio volume.

[Wonks]

I don't feel that any recorded guitar sound is going to be as inspiring to play to as having a real amp, but in the end, the recorded sound or a real amp will in all likelihood be the same as you get from a modeller or amp software emulating your own set-up.

Can you try a quiet actual amp in the studio whilst at the same time either recording a DI signal or signal from an amp emulator?

Or even use two amp emulators, one to produce the sounds you play along to, and another which produces the sound you record. The play along one can be set for say a more exciting, overdriven sound, whilst the recorded sound is more appropriate for the track.

As has come up in another thread recently, your amp emulated signal will sound like a miked amp, with your standard choices of an SM57, MD421, Royer ribbon etc. rather than the direct sound of the amp. For playing my Tone Master Pro through my FR-12 FRFR cab, I use the measurement mic option, which has a very flat response, so is as close to the sound of an actual guitar cab in the room as you are likely to get, with no mic response filtering it.

So if you have a modeller that has a flat response mic option, that would be a good one for playing along to. And if you have to record that signal, then if it's a clean sound, then it will probably sit in the mix well. But, if distorted, you may want to put it through a mic emulation, or just some extra EQ.

But also try changing the virtual mic position (if you can). You might find that one position works better for playing along to, and another for a recorded sound that's better in the mix.

[amanise]

I was hoping someone might have a solution for quiet or silent electric guitar recording. ...

I was in the same boat, tried modelling software and found it uninspiring unless well down in a mix - and as you say, not really inspirational for soloing etc. when recording.

I ended up trying a bunch of cheaper hot plates, burnt out a Marshall Power Brake, and a Bugera PS1 - but the sound was more like it. Bit muddy. Eventually bit the bullet and got a UA Ox Box. Never looked back and very happy. But. ££££.

I believe there's an updated version of the Boss power soak in this months (or maybe last months) Mag, which is a bit les expensive and got a great write up. Boss stuff has always been very good. I still use a Boss GT-001 on the input side of things. I'd see if I can get hold of one to try if I were looking now.

[ef37a]

Hi Riggillespie, I have been infesting this forum and other similar recording forums for the best part of 20 years and this has to be in the top 5 "Holy Grail" questions!
I also spent a huge amount of time with guitarist son trying to make basic (cheap) valve amps sound like Brian May's or Dave Gilmour's, depending on who he was keen on at the time (plug in AC/DC, Stones, Quo...Yes! I was busy!)

One thing we did seem to land on was, don't go TOO loud? An SPL in the small room we used of about 90C seemed to be the sweet spot (HT-20 into a V30)
Now, 90dBC is louder than most FSTVs will go but if that upsets the neighbours they are pretty fussy or/and you all have very thin walls! Hiding to nothing there.

You say you don't like headphones but you could try them from a load box connected to the Champ. Problem with that is I cannot find a 20W load box with HP out? All seem 50W+ and well over £100. I am assuming the Fender is the 6W model with an 8" speaker? If a bigger amp, bigger, more expensive problem.

The other route which seems to have fallen from favour is the speaker in a soundproof box plus mic. Nice little DIY proggy! But I fear you must join the frustrated masses who can no longer let rip.

"Great Minds" as they say AA but yours is a bit quicker than mine!
Dave.

[Sam Spoons]

Another thought, small amps usually have small speakers (the Champ has an 8") and I've never found a guitar speaker smaller than 10" that sounds good to me at any level (TBF I haven tried very hard as I can use my 18 watt, 1 x 12" combo in the studio) and at lower volume small speakers sound even less satisfying so maybe a bigger speaker on the Champ might compensate for some of the 'beef' that playing at lower levels loses?

[ef37a]

Another thought, small amps usually have small speakers (the Champ has an 8") and I've never found a guitar speaker smaller than 10" that sounds good to me at any level (TBF I haven tried very hard as I can use my 18 watt, 1 x 12" combo in the studio) and at lower volume small speakers sound even less satisfying so maybe a bigger speaker on the Champ might compensate for some of the 'beef' that playing at lower levels loses?

Yes indeed Sam and if OP wants to try my speaker in a SP box idea and can get to Northampton I have a couple of 12" chassis he can have. Possibly a 10" but he ain't getting my 10" Greenback! Saving that for a special "I know not what yet" project!

Dave.

[Sam Spoons]

I have a 12" speaker in an 'isolation cab' with a built in cheapo SM58 clone. It works well but I no longer to use it since I hardly ever record the band and when I do I just 'embrace the spill'

It's a good solution but doesn't get the OP the experience of feeling as much as hearing the sound.

[ef37a]

I have a 12" speaker in an 'isolation cab' with a built in cheapo SM58 clone. It works well but I no longer to use it since I hardly ever record the band and when I do I just 'embrace the spill'

It's a good solution but doesn't get the OP the experience of feeling as much as hearing the sound.

Well, I assume the '57 clone feeds an AI? Is the direct sound from the monitors not pretty good? If he can't have that loud enough he will just have to get used to cans.

Dave.

[Sam Spoons]

Yes, agreed

[rggillespie]

many thanks for the helpful pointers and tips, glad to hear I'm not alone with this issue. I really like my champ and I also tried a Laney Studio custom head that is 3 watts and goes down to a half watt. It has digital simulation options from two notes so can be silent. I couldn't get on with the two notes and even at a half watt the Laney was too loud, using a celestion in a 1x12 cab. I think I have an aversion to digital simulations, listening back through my monitors just doesn't work for me. I have read somewhere recently about a speaker designed to be quieter called a peacemaker, I thought of trying that as an option in the cab. The UA ox is something I'm aware of but never really understood how it works. I'll read up about it and look into re-amping too. Plenty for me to think about, I suppose there's no substitute for a certain amount of amp volume in the room to get the creative juices flowing!

[Wonks]

You may find that a guitar with unpotted pickups might respond better at low volumes due to the slight (or maybe even extreme) microphony from the pickups helping to mimic the sonic interaction between the guitar and amp at higher volumes.

An excuse to buy another guitar to see if this works for you!

[Rebus316]

Hi RG,

I'm a guitarist first, mixer/recorder second, and I've tried most of the solutions out there.

Have you tried using a Kemper?

It tends to get lumped in with 'modelling' amps, but the technology is slightly different.

I've always found mine to be considerably more inspirational to play through than any of the modelling software/amp sims out there. Something about the sound is more 'alive' to my ears, anyway. Both in clean and heavier tones.

Because I'm fairly minimalist, I'm always looking to find modelling software that would enable me to sell the physical kemper, but every time I try out the latest software marketed online as 'the kemper killer' or whatnot, I always find it a bit underwhelming compared to the kemper.

(The Kemper player - the small one - also has a useful feature where if you record through the USB, you can take a DI at the same time as you record your amp sound without any additional cabling, which is very cool!)

Worth a try if you can find one

[ef37a]

"I suppose there's no substitute for a certain amount of amp volume in the room to get the creative juices flowing!"

That, ^ I think is at the root of the problem. We are excited, even frightened by loud noise and despite over some 20 years of various ideas of simulation, nothing quite does it like a 50W Marsh and a 4 by 12!

But home recording demands all sorts of compromises and one simply has to learn to cope as best one can. At the other end of the scale, few people have homes quiet enough for quiet acoustic recording and voice over is a real pain!

There is hope. Even though you don't like the sound you get in isolation many people here and other places tell me that such "finessinnng" largely disappears when the guitar is put in a mix?

My experience is largely second hand, the playing at least. I did the electronics for my son. He has "moved on" The urgent desire for an AC30 in his teens has now mollified to being happy with a Peavey 112 Bandit! And although he plays bass and some e git in a quartet his greatest interest now is classical guitar.

Then of course, there is the old shout "it's all in the hands!"

Dave.

[Wonks]

I've never ever tried any of it, but I was wondering whether any of the studio emulation software, used in conjunction with headphones, might help to make an emulated guitar amp sound more 'real' when playing? Ideally it should stop you getting the feeling that the sound is being generated right next to your ears and is more in front of you. I don't know if there are any demo versions of such software, but maybe worth having a look?

The downside is that it's probably going to increase latency, but with headphones you get two or three ms back compared to monitors.

[ef37a]

I've never ever tried any of it, but I was wondering whether any of the studio emulation software, used in conjunction with headphones, might help to make an emulated guitar amp sound more 'real' when playing? Ideally it should stop you getting the feeling that the sound is being generated right next to your ears and is more in front of you. I don't know if there are any demo versions of such software, but maybe worth having a look?

The downside is that it's probably going to increase latency, but with headphones you get two or three ms back compared to monitors.

Ooo! That is something I don't think the amp modelling boys have thought of?

Nice one Wonks.

Dave.

[Rebus316]

"I suppose there's no substitute for a certain amount of amp volume in the room to get the creative juices flowing!"

That, ^ I think is at the root of the problem. We are excited, even frightened by loud noise and despite over some 20 years of various ideas of simulation, nothing quite does it like a 50W Marsh and a 4 by 12!

But home recording demands all sorts of compromises and one simply has to learn to cope as best one can. At the other end of the scale, few people have homes quiet enough for quiet acoustic recording and voice over is a real pain!

There is hope. Even though you don't like the sound you get in isolation many people here and other places tell me that such "finessinnng" largely disappears when the guitar is put in a mix?

My experience is largely second hand, the playing at least. I did the electronics for my son. He has "moved on" The urgent desire for an AC30 in his teens has now mollified to being happy with a Peavey 112 Bandit! And although he plays bass and some e git in a quartet his greatest interest now is classical guitar.

Then of course, there is the old shout "it's all in the hands!"

Dave.

The Peavey Bandit! Great amp! The default for when I was young, didn't have much money and wanted to make a lot of noise

[ef37a]

"I suppose there's no substitute for a certain amount of amp volume in the room to get the creative juices flowing!"

That, ^ I think is at the root of the problem. We are excited, even frightened by loud noise and despite over some 20 years of various ideas of simulation, nothing quite does it like a 50W Marsh and a 4 by 12!

But home recording demands all sorts of compromises and one simply has to learn to cope as best one can. At the other end of the scale, few people have homes quiet enough for quiet acoustic recording and voice over is a real pain!

There is hope. Even though you don't like the sound you get in isolation many people here and other places tell me that such "finessinnng" largely disappears when the guitar is put in a mix?

My experience is largely second hand, the playing at least. I did the electronics for my son. He has "moved on" The urgent desire for an AC30 in his teens has now mollified to being happy with a Peavey 112 Bandit! And although he plays bass and some e git in a quartet his greatest interest now is classical guitar.

Then of course, there is the old shout "it's all in the hands!"

Dave.

The Peavey Bandit! Great amp! The default for when I was young, didn't have much money and wanted to make a lot of noise

Indeed but hardly a valved Vox! It is a problem in his flat (as per the thread!) because of the ***t or bust volume control so I built him a low level pot box to put in the pre out-PA in jacks. He used it to gig bass for a time. Luckily the band were more jazz than rock.

He had the amp given him, gets a lot of kit that way. Latest acquisition is a PRS guitar which he likes a lot. I have asked him twice for numbers and a photo...shtum...KIDS Eh?

Dave.

[Drew Stephenson]

It's threads like this, and the knowledge that I have enough guitars, that remind me I will never be a 'proper' guitarist!
My valve amp hasn't been out of the garage since the last band practice before the pandemic and everything I've done on an electric since then has just involved sticking a mic (pretty much any mic) in front of my THR10.
Full list of people who have commented on my guitar tones subsequently:

{List ends}


P.S. I know, I know, if you're happy with the sound you play better etc. etc. etc.

[amanise]

... The UA ox is something I'm aware of but never really understood how it works. I'll read up about it and look into re-amping too. ...

The name UA Ox rolls off the tongue quickly - but the price will stay a while in your mind. I did not commit to one until I'd tried a lot of other things - including frying my lovely old amp (requiring it to be rebuilt by the manufacturer) with cheap options. You mention that the 'space' is important to you - and the Ox has really great cab and room modelling which is completely transparent. It might be a bit of a sledgehammer to crack a nut for your amp - but it'll handle anything you throw at it in the future. I'd have saved about a third of the price of mine if I had avoided the amp 'cook out' which convinced me it was time to get one. You just need to make sure its the first thing you power up in the morning.

[BigRedX]

The recurring theme that comes up form the OP and their replies seems to indicate that volume is an essential part of getting a sound that they are happy with which leads me to a follow up question:

What makes the sound of the various amp/cab emulations you have tried at neighbour-pleasing volume less pleasing when compared to the recorded sound of your loud amp at the same low volume when mixing?

This I think is the crux of the matter. Either it's psychological or the OP will find some way of recording the guitar at the volume they desire at home using an isolation booth or as I originally suggested going to a studio where noise constraints are not an issue.

Also the cynic in me would suggest that if the sound is only "good" or "inspiring" when it is loud then maybe the music isn't as good as the OP would like to think.

[ef37a]

"What makes the sound of the various amp/cab emulations you have tried at neighbour-pleasing volume less pleasing when compared to the recorded sound of your loud amp at the same low volume when mixing?"

In a word Red I would say "dynamics". If we set an arbitrary upper "next door friendly" level of say 70dB SPL then we will not get the initial attack from a string strike. This is why many people find power soaks unsatisfactory, smashing 30 or 50 watts down to 100mW just robs all the dynamic life out of the sound (there is of course an amplifier range that has largely solved that problem).

I have already mentioned the adrenalin rush that loud sounds excite. Most of us grew up listening to rock music at high levels and THAT is what a guitar SHOULD sound like. We like it! Can't do the 1812 with peas shooters.

I have also said that 90dBC is as loud as you need to go in mine and my son's opinion and indeed no one should expose themselves to over 85-90dB for more than a few minutes a day. We do know better these days.

Dave.

[Essex Boi]

Lots of workable solutions already offered, and I doubt I have anything revelatory to add. The biggest hurdle I found with anything that isn't a valve amp in the room, is the intangible 'feel' - I suppose it's the interaction between guitar, amp, speaker, and room. The way I see it, the whole thing works as a system - from pick to mic. By changing just one element, I will change the result. But I also know several guitarist who claim this is illusory.

My ideal guitar sounds are emitted by my venerable and modded JCM800 - but it has to be tamed to be usable in my home studio. I use a Captor X which gives me an attenuated output to the speaker cab at a sensible volume (though it could be silent) and two balanced outputs that feed my mic pres. It's still louder in the room than many folk could get away with, but my nearest neighbors are far enough away or too polite.

The IRs (cabinet and mic) are the 'artificial' link in the chain before the mic pres, and I lost count of how many I tried before I settled on ones I can use. In this regard, I've found IRs are the same as any other software instrument. I'm unlikely to find a factory patch that hits the mark straight off. So I fiddle, tinker, experiment, and through trial and error I get something . . . that I'm still not entirely happy with!

I was wondering whether any of the studio emulation software, used in conjunction with headphones, might help to make an emulated guitar amp sound more 'real' when playing?

I struggle with modelled amps for recording - for me, they are brilliant tools for live performance. However, on the occasions I use them I've found headphones help me ignore the room sound, which doesn't make it onto the recording anyway.