Idiot tries to build guitar!

[Jumpeyspyder]

..then decided to double check, I had the correct locations for FR trem studs and final route.
To do this I decided to fit the Locking nut, I carefully filed a nice flat shelf, was so proud, till I dropped the Nut into position and realised it needed to be at an angle!

glued a piece of rosewood back in and set back to work

After roughing it in with files, I used double sided tape to put sandpaper on the back of the Nut and used it as a, super posh, filing block!
(painters tape in position to prevent losing any material from the first fret to the nut)


..went to gently screw down the nut (had pre drilled holes) and the bolt sheard!



Much bad language ensued!
Luckily, heating the stub of the screw with a soldering iron and letting it cool, then pliers managed to ease it out!

[Jumpeyspyder]

Nut now in position!
Put elastic into the floyd rose and clamped it down in the Lock nut - now I can check 'string gap to edge of fretboard' and position studs & routing template!



Studs drilled - glad I double checked they needed moving by 1.5mm

I saw people using double sided tape for templates, so thought I'd use this method. I used carpet tape which is really sticky, but it didn't turn out as well as I'd hoped as it is slightly elastic so the template stayed stuck - but moved

Messy, but it fits / works!

[S2]

I don't like double sided sticky personally. I use masking tape on the template then masking tape on the body/object and then superglue on the masking tape. Press together and leave for a minute or so and it won't move. When you come to remove just lift it away and the masking tape will come off (the body first usually).

[Jumpeyspyder]

I don't like double sided sticky personally. I use masking tape on the template then masking tape on the body/object and then superglue on the masking tape. Press together and leave for a minute or so and it won't move. When you come to remove just lift it away and the masking tape will come off (the body first usually).

Thanks S2, I saw that method - I just know I'd use way too much superglue and everything would be stuck forever!

[BillB]

I don't like double sided sticky personally. I use masking tape on the template then masking tape on the body/object and then superglue on the masking tape. Press together and leave for a minute or so and it won't move. When you come to remove just lift it away and the masking tape will come off (the body first usually).

Nice technique - could have other uses for temporary fixings

[Martin Walker]

sorry to have gone quiet.. busy at work.so forgot to post anything

Phew - we were beginning to get concerned, so glad you're OK

..went to gently screw down the nut (had pre drilled holes) and the bolt sheard!

Much bad language ensued!
Luckily, heating the stub of the screw with a soldering iron and letting it cool, then pliers managed to ease it out!

That's a good technique Spidey!

[garrettendi]

This looks very professionally put together!

[Wonks]

To do this I decided to fit the Locking nut, I carefully filed a nice flat shelf, was so proud, till I dropped the Nut into position and realised it needed to be at an angle!

I don't think I've seen a locking nut at an angle before. AFAIK it should be flat or possibly leaning back very slightly towards the headstock. Not angled towards the fretboard as it seems to be in your photo. Have you got this right?

The shelf should be flat and the locking nut has the thicker part towards the fretboard so that it angles back towards the headstock. Which is where the headstock's back angle should ideally be a bit greater than that of the nut angle, otherwise you'll need a string bar.

[Jumpeyspyder]

This looks very professionally put together!

Thanks, although it might 'professionally fall apart' when I make the neck too thin!

[Jumpeyspyder]

I don't think I've seen a locking nut at an angle before. AFAIK it should be flat or possibly leaning back very slightly towards the headstock. Not angled towards the fretboard as it seems to be in your photo. Have you got this right?

The shelf should be flat and the locking nut has the thicker part towards the fretboard so that it angles back towards the headstock. Which is where the headstock's back angle should ideally be a bit greater than that of the nut angle, otherwise you'll need a string bar.

Surprised me too! looking at both my FR equipped guitars the Locknut is canted forwards a few degrees on both of them. I spent a good few hours trying to find if there was a recommended angle, but didn't find anything!

In the end I used the flat of the fretboard side of the locknut and just kept that in contact with the upright of what would have been the Zero fret slot.
If it's wrong, it shouldn't be too hard to correct later (fingers crossed)

[Wonks]

Though your screw holes will be at very slightly the wrong angle so might need filling and redrilling.

Without the locking nuts and clamping plates fitted, the strings need to angle back from the front of the nut towards the rear. And the strings need to pull down on the rear edge of the nut. As long as it does that even slightly, you're fine. You don't want the rear of the nut being higher than the front of the nut.

[Jumpeyspyder]

Though your screw holes will be at very slightly the wrong angle so might need filling and redrilling.

Without the locking nuts and clamping plates fitted, the strings need to angle back from the front of the nut towards the rear. And the strings need to pull down on the rear edge of the nut. As long as it does that even slightly, you're fine. You don't want the rear of the nut being higher than the front of the nut.

Your posts are always super helpful - thanks wonks!
Didn't drill holes till second attempt so OK for now, but will need to be reconciled if I need to correct!

Here is a comparison with my SR470 (on the right (in case it isn't obvious )), string still lower on peg end.

[Wonks]

That's fine.

I'd say that the SR470 slot is flat at the bottom, but for some reason the nut isn't sitting quite flat against it. A slight gap at the headstock end, at least on the bass side. You'd need to check if the treble side was the same.

But even with the angle you've added on yours, I'd say the slope of the nut is greater than that of the headstock, so it looks like you probably will need a string bar.

I'd guess the built-in angle of the locking nut is an attempt to move the exit point of the two mounting bolts a couple of mm further towards the body rather than have them come out at the very weakest point of the neck. The nut needs a reasonable amount of thickness to accommodate sufficient thread depth for both the locking plate screws and the mounting screws.

I know the mounting bolts allow you to easily fit shims to increase the height of the nut, but on the locking nut guitars I've seen, I'm not sure if any have needed shims. They generally sit very slightly higher than necessary without any. So they could probably have done with a couple of short locating pins and a bit of glue.

You certainly need something there to stop the nut being pulled backwards if you accidentally tighten a headstock tuner once the nut is clamped. Because the length of string from the tuner to the nut is so short (especially the low E), even tightening a tuner by 1/4 of a turn can put a lot of extra tension on that small length of string. You might have 2mm of string stretching being applied over 50mm of string rather than your 648mm+50mm+10mm locking nut width when unclamped. Which for a 50mm length of string between tuner and nut works out at roughly a 14x increase in string tension when clamped as opposed to unclamped.

Glue alone might not hold the nut in place (unlike with a normal nut).

[Jumpeyspyder]

Bridge pickup routed
Volume, tone(+coil tap) & pickup selector positions drilled


..just one last route needed for control cavity!

Experimenting with finish...
Black grain filler, water based wood dye, black, dark green, apple green (want a black to green sunburst)
Fernandes FR120 is black, but glows green under UV! no idea how to recreate this but love black & green so this is a weird homage!


dye takes much better to the end grain, but black still looks weak!

....with this in mind sculpting/ chamfering the body edges to give more end grain!
(backup plan spray the edges black)
..also maple doesn't take up dye as well as ash, may end up with some banding - could be OK, might look odd?

[garrettendi]

Those colours look amazing! I can't wait to see it painted up!

[Wonks]

I think you'll need some more routs in the pickup cavities to accomodate the pickup mounting legs. And you'll need very flat pickup rings to avoid the pickups fouling the strings.

The FR is going to sit pretty low to the body, so you can't have much of the pickup above the body at all.

Fender-style guitars with the neck at no angle to the body have the fingerboard raised off the body by a couple of mm by the neck to give more room to mount the pickups.

Gibson-style necks where the fingerboard almost sits on top of the body have the neck angled to give room for the tailpiece and pickups.

You've got an un-angled neck and the fingerboard sitting right on top of the body. Which doesn't leave much room for the pickups, especially as the body is thinner than normal and you've got the trem cavity rout to worry about if you make the pickup routs any deeper.

You haven't made life easy for yourself!

Also, were you thinking of routing out the rear section of the FR cavity more to allow upbends? At the moment, because the whole FR is inset, you will really be limited to downbends.

[BigRedX]

All the home builders I know making through-neck guitars and basses shape the neck part so that it is at an angle to the body part to avoid the sorts of issues Wonks is describing.

[Wonks]

I have seen one where they raised the fingerboard up by a few mm. Probably slightly easier to get it right, but doesn't look quite as good IMO.

[Jumpeyspyder]

I think you'll need some more routs in the pickup cavities to accomodate the pickup mounting legs. And you'll need very flat pickup rings to avoid the pickups fouling the strings.

The FR is going to sit pretty low to the body, so you can't have much of the pickup above the body at all.

Pickups can sit in the cavity with the top level with the body - so there shouldn't be a depth problem. (Unless my copper tape is crazy thick)

In the pic the FR studs were screwed right down so the router wouldn't catch them and to stop dust going into the ferrules.
The FR plate will sit just above the body so strings will be approx 10mm higher.
It should be able to do a full 'divebomb' and a small amount of upbend, I'm contemplating sticking some rubber or something at the back of the trem cavity to stop the saddle bolts digging in. - if so, I'll remove some more at the back of the trem route.

[Wonks]

Remember the pickup mounting screws will need to protrude below the mounting legs, so you'll need to drill out slightly for those. But definitely use the lowest pickup rings you can get.

[siderealxxx]

I think you'll need some more routs in the pickup cavities to accomodate the pickup mounting legs. And you'll need very flat pickup rings to avoid the pickups fouling the strings.

The FR is going to sit pretty low to the body, so you can't have much of the pickup above the body at all.

Fender-style guitars with the neck at no angle to the body have the fingerboard raised off the body by a couple of mm by the neck to give more room to mount the pickups.

Gibson-style necks where the fingerboard almost sits on top of the body have the neck angled to give room for the tailpiece and pickups.

You've got an un-angled neck and the fingerboard sitting right on top of the body. Which doesn't leave much room for the pickups, especially as the body is thinner than normal and you've got the trem cavity rout to worry about if you make the pickup routs any deeper.

You haven't made life easy for yourself!

Also, were you thinking of routing out the rear section of the FR cavity more to allow upbends? At the moment, because the whole FR is inset, you will really be limited to downbends.

This was bothering me too but I didn't want to raise it! The bigger concern IMO is the the magnetic pull of the pickups can cause serious intonation problems if the strings are too close. I hope it's resolvable, sounds like the builder is aware of it. Looks great by the way - good luck!

[Wonks]

Humbuckers are nothing like as bad as single coils with magnet pole pieces for magnetic pull.

And from my time on a kit guitar building forum, it does pay to just say something if you think you see something wrong. Obviously you don't have all the information the builder has in their heads, and only a few photos to go by that might not show the whole picture, but it does help if you mention something that could be wrong or could be improved. They've either got an answer, which is great, or it could be something they've overlooked.

The sooner someone realises they've made a mistake, the easier it is to correct it and to come up with solution that doesn't involve redoing a lot of the work already done. And you certainly don't want to find out after applying all your finish and having to strip that off in order to fix something in the design.

And you may also give them ideas as to how to do it better next time.

And the next guitar you build will always be better!

[Jumpeyspyder]

This was bothering me too but I didn't want to raise it! The bigger concern IMO is the the magnetic pull of the pickups can cause serious intonation problems if the strings are too close. I hope it's resolvable, sounds like the builder is aware of it. Looks great by the way - good luck!

Thanks siderealxxx, Please do feel free to pipe in, if you see any potential problems!
Wonks has been great at raising stuff I hadn't even thought about, and giving some really useful technical info - to mix some metaphors; I feel like I have wingman in my corner!

'This evening I have been mostly' making a template and routing the control cavity!
(5mm short on the depth as I noticed my 25mm bearing bit was damaged so I've binned it) waiting for a new one to be delivered

[S2]

What sort of cavity cover plate will you use? And how will it attach?

I wanted mine flush so I made two templates - one normal to do the cavity and one slightly bigger so I could rout something for it to sit on and screw into.

[Jumpeyspyder]

What sort of cavity cover plate will you use? And how will it attach?

I wanted mine flush so I made two templates - one normal to do the cavity and one slightly bigger so I could rout something for it to sit on and screw into.

I also want my cover plate flush, so I will need to make another template, I've got some black plastic somewhere (bought it from stewmac about 10 years ago and put it 'somewhere safe' )