Choosing an amp sim / multi FX

[JankySwitch]

I'm looking to buy an amp modeller/profiler but there are so many to choose from and I have a few constraints - can you help me narrow down my choices?

I mainly make sequenced electronic music, with the occasional guitar/bass parts. I'd love to be able to choose the amp from the sequencer, and change settings on the fly.

I'm looking at everything from a Veleton GP-200 (£250) to a used Kemper rack (£650) - and all of the pedals in between. Quad Cortex is unfortunately out of consideration.

Things I want/need:
* It's going to sit in my studio, hooked up most of the time, so rack mount isn't a problem.
* I would like a decent midi implementation, preferably on 5-pin midi. Mini-TRS will do, but USB midi will be a pain for my set up. (It looks like the headrush core midi only lets you press/hold buttons, not turn the switches on/off)
* Ease of use without an app. Ideally, I could do everything from the board, but if I need a computer to upgrade firmware, that's ok - I don't want to use a computer/phone for basic functionality
* I don't need the ability to profile, I only have one crappy amp.

The Kemper price makes my eyes water a little, but 2013 me would love one. I wonder if 2011 tech holds up now? Or does modern, but more budget options hold their own?

What are your recommendations, what should I steer clear of?

[The Elf]

Line 6 Helix. Any of them. I've never regretted my choice.

[Music Wolf]

I have both a Helix Floor and a Kemper Rack. I use them both live (not at the same time) and in the studio. In two of my bands we employ backing tracks and I send MIDI commands to the FX to load patches between songs and switch scenes within songs.

In general, I would say that the Kemper edges it on sound, but the Helix is more flexible - but that gap has narrowed as both units have received free upgrades over the years (I've had the Kemper for 10 years). Either will do the job.

I have never profiled an amp myself with the Kemper, there are thousands of profiles already available. Even when I did own a very nice vintage amp I was still happy with a profile of the same model made by someone else.

[Moroccomoose]

Depending on what you want actually need, another option might be to look at a pedal board amp. That is something I am looking at currently.

Perhaps something like Blackstar Amped 3 which has the basic tones covered (Marshall-esque, Fender-esque and Hi gain-esque) all controllable by midi and presets, but still have knobs and switches. Other examples I'm weighing up include are the Laney Lionheart Loudpedal and the Hughes&Kettner Spirit Ampman(No midi). Each with varying degrees of versatility in terms of sound character and rig integration.

These are not amp sims, they are amps! They have a line out, but if necessary, they also have speaker out and can drive 60-100W speaker cabs.

I couldn't work out your workflow, but on the basis you already make electronic music, I guessed you already have a plethora of fx to hand. So maybe a more purely amp focused unit will do the job.

Stu.

[Arpangel]

Axe-Fx? they don’t seem to get a lot of exposure but are very revered by some.

[JankySwitch]

Thanks - there's some good options in there I hadn't thought of.

I had ignore the Line 6 Helix, but I think that's just because of memory's of my old bandmates original Pod...

I had thought about an AXE-FX 2 or newer, but haven't found one under £700.

I'm not sure about the amp pedals, I don't have any need to go loud, but I do want flexibility. Saying that, the Laney looks nice!

Time to watch more videos on YT and try to skip passed the ones where people are trying to self-justify their purchases or just hype what ever they have been given.

[Wonks]

I have a Valeton GP-200LT, but I've only ever used it for effects and never for the amp sims. And it's been packed away in storage along with almost all of my music kit as we're in the process of selling the house and moving, so I can't get it and a FRFR cab to try it through. The effects sounded good to me though.

I can definitely recommend the Fender Tone Master Pro, which is my main amp modeller, but that's definitely budget busting and still too new to have a significantly lower used price.

[BigRedX]

Another Helix user here. I have the full Helix Floor, bought on the assumption that if I chose a lesser model I would eventually require a function that only one of the higher-spec'd devices featured. And I was right although the invaluable features I use now were not all of the ones I thought I would need at the time of purchase.

There are a couple of functions that I miss, but none of the competition have them either, and given Line6's excellent firmware updates since the original Helix was released I'm more

One important thing for anyone who is suspicious of using amp and cab models is to stop listening with your eyes and just use your ears. I might be lucky in that I'm not precious about matching the exact sounds I had with my previous hardware, and that because all my old hardware was somewhat esoteric and not included (AFAIK) on any of the modelling devices and I have no idea how any of the "classic" amps are supposed to sound, so I just go for something that sounds good in the context of the song/arrangement/production that I am working on. There are well over 100 amp models on the Helix. I've found it easy to find ones that work for me.

[S2]

I can't tell you what to buy, but I can tell you what to steer clear of! The Line 6 Pod Express (I have the bass version). I bought it because we've gone for a silent stage with one of the bands I'm in. I tested it and thought it was ok initially but actually having gigged it a few times, the bass sounds are very weak (IMHO) and not a patch on my normal bass rig (Mark Bass).

I had a kidney Pod some years back and so should have known better really, but I thought I'd give Line 6 another chance. I'd imagine that the Helix is probably a better offering from Line 6 or it may well be that the guitar sounds are much better than the bass sounds, but don't waste your money on the express. Mine's going back on eBay.

[BigRedX]

I can't tell you what to buy, but I can tell you what to steer clear of! The Line 6 Pod Express (I have the bass version). I bought it because we've gone for a silent stage with one of the bands I'm in. I tested it and thought it was ok initially but actually having gigged it a few times, the bass sounds are very weak (IMHO) and not a patch on my normal bass rig (Mark Bass).

I had a kidney Pod some years back and so should have known better really, but I thought I'd give Line 6 another chance. I'd imagine that the Helix is probably a better offering from Line 6 or it may well be that the guitar sounds are much better than the bass sounds, but don't waste your money on the express. Mine's going back on eBay.

For bass I have found that all the bass amp and cab models that I have tried have been rubbish, and all of them have IMO made my bass guitar sound worse.

These days on the Helix, for conventional bass guitar I don't bother with any amp or cab models but simply use one of the EQ modules and a distortion pedal for a bit of drive, or more recently just the DarkGlass pre-amp model.

For the Bass VI I use the Roland Jazz Chorus model which is and amp and cab model that in real life would be totally inappropriate for bass at gig volumes, but as a simulation works fine, because there is no danger of breaking the speakers.

This is why I think specific guitar and bass multi-effects are a complete red herring. Remember that a lot of "classic" bass amps were simply guitar amps with a different name on the front panel and maybe the EQ centres shifted down slightly.

Also for bass guitar it is my option that traditional amplification often gets in the way of the sound. In the past it was a necessary evil for getting the bass guitar loud enough to be heard with a rock band, but now that speaker technology has improved massively there is no longer any reason to put up with these compromises.

[Drew Stephenson]

Time to watch more videos on YT and try to skip passed the ones where people are trying to self-justify their purchases or just hype what ever they have been given.

Hi Tony!
Might be worth downloading a few of the free VST options and playing around in your DAW - this might narrow down some of the specifics you're after and knock out some of the non-contenders before you look at the hardware.

[The Elf]

FWIW... I get my most oft used bass tones from a combo of Helix's Regal DI (available in the chain, but not usually used), Ampeg compression and SVT amp and cab. Seems to please most players.

[JankySwitch]

Thanks everyone!

Having initially ignored the Line 6 Helix (kidney POD put me off), it's currently at the top of my list - it looks like the Stadium announcement has brought down the second hand price of the big boys to near the new price of the stomps. The midi implementation looks great and the connections have more than I need.

I run Linux, so running VSTs is a bit hit or miss, I generally don't bother unless they are native Linux VSTs. I supposed I should try Ratatouille (NAM loader) too, but I really prefer hardware. I have access to OSX and Windows, so I can do firmware updates/config etc. but my main set up is Linux (Ardour!)

(Hi Drew! Small world )

[JankySwitch]

Thanks again everyone!

I've ended up buying a second hand Line 6 Helix Rack + Controller (for the price of a new Stomp!) - just had a quick play with it, but it's sounds great so far.

I would've skipped the Line 6 stuff if it wasn't for you guys. Can't wait to dig into it more.

[Drew Stephenson]

Thanks for closing the loop on this, have fun!

[BigRedX]

Thanks again everyone!

I've ended up buying a second hand Line 6 Helix Rack + Controller (for the price of a new Stomp!) - just had a quick play with it, but it's sounds great so far.

I would've skipped the Line 6 stuff if it wasn't for you guys. Can't wait to dig into it more.

Does the floor controller still use an ethernet cable to connect to the rack module? If so order a couple of coilable gig-proof ethernet cables with shrouded plugs now. This is the only weak link in the Line6 system IMO. When I owned a Pod Rack and Longboard floor controller I used to get through a standard ethernet cable every 3-4 weeks. Eventually I found an expensive and supposed heavy duty coilable ethernet cable from Van Damme which lasted about a year. The weakness of this connection was the main reason why I picked the Floor version of the Helix over the rack mount one.

[JankySwitch]

Does the floor controller still use an ethernet cable to connect to the rack module?

Yes, and the tabs on both ends were already snapped off. I've got an ethercon cable in my basket for next time I'm buying cables. It's mostly staying in my room, so shouldn't get too much damage.

[BigRedX]

Whilst Ethercon on the Helix is definite improvement over that standard RJ45 sockets of the Pod and it's floor controller, the problem I found was with the actual cable not being robust enough to withstand being taken out of the studio twice a week for gigs and band practices. Make sure your Ethercon cable is also coilable for maximum durability.

[James Perrett]

I run Linux, so running VSTs is a bit hit or miss, I

Have a look at the Tukan JS amp sim in Reaper. I've just been setting up an underpowered Linux system for someone and it seems to work well.