Which XLR Chassis Connector to buy for patch bay

[solaris]

Hello everybody, I decided to make a patch bay for my studio. It has 3 different rooms. So all of the rooms will be connected to the control room with a stage box (like this one: pro snake Stagebox 204) and the rack and its inputs and outputs to anothere stage box so I can connect them as needed.

I am between two connectors for the patchbay.

Amphenol AC3FDZ (2.44 Euro)
or
Neutrik NC3 FD-LX-B (5.50 Euro)

The difference in price is huge. I need about 130 connectors so it adds up.

What is your advise? Should I go for the expensive Neutrik or I will by fine with the Amphenol. The studio is professional so it needs to be build to last. Does the Neutrik have better alloys that will last longer or it does not matter. Especially in a protected environment like a studio.

Any other thought on the Patchbay in general?

[Hugh Robjohns]

Do you really want just female XLRs on the patchbay?

I'm afraid I don't have any experience with Amphenol XLRs, but other connector types Ive used made by that company have all been fine.

Neutrik have a low cost chassis XLR range with plastic bodies — the PP Series. And their budget brand, Rean.

But I generally use the D-LX range for my own projects — usually either the M3 tapped types (when mounting behind the panel), or use the Canford mounting plate if front mounting — much faster and easier than messing about with lock washers and nuts! Neutrik are a known quantity to me, and I've never had one fail in over 40 years.

[ef37a]

Re the "fixing thing", not well known are Taptite screws. These roll, not cut a thread into the metal and form no swarf and unlike self tappers, they can be replaced with the same size conventional metric sized screw. For mild steel and an M3 screw you need a 2.7mm drill.

There is an advantage to front loading XLRs? In the unlikely event one is damaged it can be removed and replaced without diving into the box (assuming you left enough chuffing wire!)

Dave.

[ajay_m]

More expensive connectors are generally designed to be both more physically rugged and to be rated for more connect/disconnect cycles. In theory also the connector surfaces ought to be plated with a metal alloy that is resistant to corrosion and will not develop a high resistance over time due to tarnish.

Realistically, even low cost connectors are gonna last for at least several hundred cycles especially in an indoor, temperature and humidity controlled environment. When I had to recable with all XLRs I just bought a quantity of el-cheapo plugs and sockets from Amazon knowing that most of the cables weren't ever gonna be unplugged and after 3 years I certainly haven't had the slightest issue. Would they still work if I disconnected them every day? Well, that'd be around 1,000 cycles I guess and at that point yes, those extremely cheap connectors would be false economy. But in your situation, even the lower tier connectors you're considering are significantly more expensive then the cheap and cheerful ones I purchased. (10 male + 10 female for £20 all up) and realistically, will you be recabling every day?. Amphenol is a reputable brand and I'd be surprised if you wouldn't get decades out of them.

[ajay_m]

Of course the whole concept of patch bays made more sense with analogue mixers where whatever was connected to channel 1 in and channel 7 out was only re-routable by somehow replugging somewhere down the chain outside the control room itself. In a modern digital environment you would just have remote stage boxes in each room, connected over ethernet, back to the digital desk, where you could then route anything to anything and save that as a scene, hence, 'repatch' at the touch of a button. This is, of course, how live sound is done these days, with manufacturers like Behringer drastically reducing the cost both of the mixer and the remote stage boxes.
However we're still in a transitional phase in the home studio environment where a lot of people are still using analogue desks and understandably have grown comfortable with them. (and they can be picked up at remarkably cheap prices since of course outside this environment, they're thoroughly obsolete).

[ef37a]

Solaris, I have just seen the empty stage boxes you mean to use, they are pre-drilled for (M3?) nut and screw and so ignore my point about Taptite screws!

I doubt there is much to choose between those XLR sockets? Ajay mentions Behringer stage boxes. I am PD certain THEY don't fit XLRs at a fiver apiece! And yet one does not read of any connector failures with those boxes? I infest two other audio forums and have never seen such a comment in all the time those products have been around, in fact the only issue I have read about with XLRs is that of plugs getting jammed in them and have experienced this myself.

So, IMHO 'go cheap' but also order some bogo-standard plugs and try them out. I have always found Amazon very good about returns but then I am sure the smaller firms are just as fair.

Can I ask how you intend to wire up these boxes? Personally I would go for a foil screened two core cable of about 3mm OD. Dream to strip and solder and easier to pull through small holes.

Oh and! Re M3 nuts, if you don't already have suitable kit, treat yourself to an M3 "nut spinner" often wrongly called a "box spanner"...the latter being a cheap and nasty tool only to be used if nothing else in the box fits"

https://www.canford.co.uk/Products/55-6 ... t-standard

Save you pounds in the swear box!

Dave.

[James Perrett]

How rugged to the connectors really need to be? You could buy a plastic Neutrik unlatched NC3FPP connector for only £1.53 each (in quantities of 100 or more) from Rapid Online.

[solaris]

Thank you for the answers

Do you really want just female XLRs on the patchbay?

Not necessarily
I was thinking that yes so all patch cables are male both ways so (like a jack patch bay) I don't have to put the cable in a specific direction.

Of course the whole concept of patch bays made more sense with analogue mixers where whatever was connected to channel 1 in and channel 7 out was only re-routable by somehow replugging somewhere down the chain outside the control room itself. In a modern digital environment you would just have remote stage boxes in each room, connected over ethernet, back to the digital desk, where you could then route anything to anything and save that as a scene, hence, 'repatch' at the touch of a button.

I have a studio with three rooms, I want the 2 rooms to sent 16 channels each to the control room. The 3rd room (which is studio b) to sent 8 channels. How else could I do it. I don't want a digital desk. I work in the box with everything going to an RME 802.

Can I ask how you intend to wire up these boxes? Personally I would go for a foil screened two core cable of about 3mm OD. Dream to strip and solder and easier to pull through small holes.

I will use several (Cordial CMS 8) multi core cables. It will be a big task to solder all this connectors. This is why I am considering the expensive ones. Because I would not like to have to do it every 10 - 15 years. I guess I will have to do it eventually.
An M3 nut spinner. Next on my list to buy then.

How rugged to the connectors really need to be? You could buy a plastic Neutrik unlatched NC3FPP connector for only £1.53

That is not a bad idea. These connectors are discontinued but I can find them in Mouser Electronics store. (I have to buy them from a store in EU).

--

Thank you very much for all the help

[Hugh Robjohns]

I was thinking that yes so all patch cables are male both ways so (like a jack patch bay) I don't have to put the cable in a specific direction.

I think that way be dragons. It risks confusion over inputs and outputs, and the potential to inadvertently send phantom power into places it shouldn't go.

I've never had any issues using normal XLRf — XLRm patch cables here and I would strongly recommend sticking with the XLR convention.

You then also have the option of buying off-the-shelf XLR patch panels which are usually less expensive than DIY jobs!

[ef37a]

Forgive my pedantry Solaris but to me, what you are describing is not really a "patch bay"? That to me is a localised box of connectors, almost always jacks, which permits the connection of multiple pieces of gear, often effects in very versatile way. Jack bays are also almost always "normalized" in one way or other.

To me this is a collection of "tie lines" permitting microphones or other sources to be sent to various rooms. Since a studio recording space is almost all out putting signals* e.g. mics, the XLRs will surely be female? Where they fetch up at a desk, male outputs. Keyboards and other sources can be catered for with DI boxes. Of course, there may be times when you want to send signals the other way but that is what gender changers are for?

*Yes, there will be things like talkback, comms, possibly video but I would think you will make other, special provision for those? BTW keep CATX shielded in mind!

Dave.

[jaminem]

https://artproaudio.com/patchbayssplitt ... 343236/p16

?

or maybe

https://cpc.farnell.com/pulse/pls00022/ ... gKAVvD_BwE

[ef37a]

https://artproaudio.com/patchbayssplitt ... 343236/p16

?

or maybe

https://cpc.farnell.com/pulse/pls00022/ ... gKAVvD_BwE

But that would mean soldering up lots of XLR plugs, even more of a bind than sockets and an added cost.

Dave.

[Hugh Robjohns]

The art pro xlr patch involves no soldering at all. It has male XLRs on one side and female the other, with rack ears which can fit to either side to allow 16 males at the front or 16 females. Install two strips, with studio stage boxes and preamps plugged in at the back, and you patch between them at the front with short xlr leads.

Both the pulse panel, like any diy job, would involve soldering of I/O cables at the back.

And an XLR panel is definitely a patch panel if you use it to patch studio mics to preamps.

[ef37a]

The art pro xlr patch involves no soldering at all. It has male XLRs on one side and female the other, with rack ears which can fit to either side to allow 16 males at the front or 16 females. Install two strips, with studio stage boxes and preamps plugged in at the back, and you patch between them at the front with short xlr leads.

Both the pulse panel, like any diy job, would involve soldering of I/O cables at the back.

And an XLR panel is definitely a patch panel if you use it to patch studio mics to preamps.

Never said it weren't chap! Just not as the OP has presented things?

Soldering: The boxes Solaris linked to involve soldering to XLR sockets. The 1U XLR-XLR panels would require XLR plugs in the back. I would far rather solder up 100 sockets than 100 plugs!

I am quite surprised that "punch down" IDC connections have made few inroads into studio kit? Don't trust it I guess?

Dave.

[Sam Spoons]

I am quite surprised that "punch down" IDC connections have made few inroads into studio kit? Don't trust it I guess?

Dave.

Neutrik do make IDC versions of their XLR connectors.

And an XLR panel is definitely a patch panel if you use it to patch studio mics to preamps.

Never said it weren't chap! Just not as the OP has presented things?

I too would describe the breakout panels for tie lines as 'patch panels' but a patch bay, for me, is a specific arrangement of patch panels so I understane where Dave is coming from (I actually wrote a reply to that effect but got distracted so didn't post it as you two had given the same answers.

[Hugh Robjohns]

Terminology...

From my BBC heritage, any facility to patch signals between sources and destinations is a PATCHBAY — whether performed manually with cords, or electronically.

A panel full of sockets with normalling facilities is, to me, a JACKFIELD.

Other definitions may be available....

[Sam Spoons]

Precision in terminology is, obviously, a good thing...

[solaris]

I think that way be dragons. It risks confusion over inputs and outputs, and the potential to inadvertently send phantom power into places it shouldn't go.

Yes that is a good idea. I only have 6 outputs from the RME going to the patch bay. I will have these as males. Thank you.

Forgive my pedantry Solaris but to me, what you are describing is not really a "patch bay"? That to me is a localised box of connectors,

I think that it is ok to call it a patch bay, although "localized box of connectors" does sound more amazing.

The art pro xlr patch involves no soldering at all. It has male XLRs on one side and female the other, with rack ears which can fit to either side to allow 16 males at the front or 16 females. Install two strips, with studio stage boxes and preamps plugged in at the back, and you patch between them at the front with short xlr leads.

1) As ef37a wrote I will need to solder the same amount of connections
2) It is going to cost much more money.
3) The rack format does not suite me because I want to put it on the table

[solaris]

I think I will go with (Amphenol AC3FDZ) sockets and when they fail, hopefully after many many years, I will replace them with Neutric. Except if they break after 20 years. Then I will buy exactly the same ones again.

I am not sure if I will have the mental strength to solder all those connectors. I hope I will make it out with, at least, a half sane mind.

Thank you all for the amazing help.

[ef37a]

"I am not sure if I will have the mental strength to solder all those connectors. I hope I will make it out with, at least, a half sane mind. "

Ha! Ha! Were I just ten years younger I would happily have come out and done the job for the fare and room and board.
Do you have any kids Sol'? If so, teach 'em to solder!

I trust you have or will invest in a good solder station? Not a job for a crappy old Henley Solon!

Dave.

[solaris]

Ha! Ha! Were I just ten years younger I would happily have come out and done the job for the fare and room and board.
Do you have any kids Sol'? If so, teach 'em to solder!

That would have been amazing. I could use the help and and another brain for the studio decisions. Not always easy to make them all by yourself.

I trust you have or will invest in a good solder station? Not a job for a crappy old Henley Solon!

Yes I should definitely upgrade my soldering thingy, and buying a proper soldering station. Any suggestions?

PS. No kids yet so I will have to deal with this by my self.

[ef37a]

Ha! Ha! Were I just ten years younger I would happily have come out and done the job for the fare and room and board.
Do you have any kids Sol'? If so, teach 'em to solder!

That would have been amazing. I could use the help and and another brain for the studio decisions. Not always easy to make them all by yourself.

I trust you have or will invest in a good solder station? Not a job for a crappy old Henley Solon!

Yes I should definitely upgrade my soldering thingy, and buying a proper soldering station. Any suggestions?

PS. No kids yet so I will have to deal with this by my self.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Hakko-FX888DX- ... 9DVY&psc=1

I have used Weller Magnastats for decades but the best solder station I ever used was the Hakko similar to above. If you can't run to one of those, "Dura-tool" make a very decent station for around £50.

I guess you will have to use lead free solder because you are a business? If so buy the best grade you can find. The stuff with a bit of Silver in it seems the best. (but, if you still have kgs of the old stuff in the shed we won't tell!)

Dave.

[ajay_m]

Weller is the best lead free solder I've used so far though I'm only doing stuff for my own use so I also have a large reel of 60/40 Ersin multicore off eBay that should last me out!. It's what I grew up with and besides that's what the 50 year old vintage hp calculators I restore are soldered with anyway.
You need a soldering station with a range of tips that can easily be attached as required. The one I have came from the now deceased Maplin and tips are still available. Farnell sell this as the Duratool D00675 but note it only comes with a single tip. It is actually a zhongdi 937 and if you search eBay for 937 tips you can get a nice set easily for it. It's a nice piece of kit and has given me many faithful years of service.