Weak signal when re-amping

[Jesuslizardjr]

Hi, hoping someone can help.
Currently having issues when reamping a DI that the signal hitting the amp is really weak, it's particularly noticeable as its big valve amps for the reamp.

The DI's were all recorded line-in into an interface properly. For re-amping the DI's are then being sent from the DAW to the interface (just a Behringer umc202) then out of the L output into a re-amp box (art Dual RDB) from the reamp box into a pedal board then into the amp.

No issues with the amp/cab/pedal board as all sounds normal when plugging a guitar in instead.

Currently bypassing the issue by having the DAW track volume, master volume, interface volume and reamp box volume all on max, this seems to get a pretty normal hot signal but obviously not normal to be having everything on max just to get the DI to hit the amp hard enough.

Just wondering if there's something I havent considered that could be causing this issue! Thanks

[James Perrett]

Try losing the reamp box. There should be no problem plugging a line output into a pedal provided you keep tabs on the level that you are sending.

[Hugh Robjohns]

Currently having issues when reamping a DI that the signal hitting the amp is really weak...

I'm not surprised. The problem is your Behringer UMC202, and you're not the first to have fallen foul of its unique 'features'.

If you look at its specs, the max output level (for a 0dBFS signal is only +3dBu.

So, if your recorded DI tracks are peaking to -10dBFS, say, that means the max level out of the interface — with everything turned up full — is barely -7dBu... which is already lower than many hot guitars!

But that signal is then feeding an ART RDB which introduces a nominal 20dB level step-down (even with its level control turned full up). Therefore your -7dBu signal from the interface leaves the RDB at around -27dBu into your guitar FX chain, which is definitely lower than even a weedy guitar.

So it's not surprising you're struggling to get a decent level from the amp. You're doing everything right.. but the Behringer's unusual design has scuppered the plan!

The ART RDB is designed for normal consoles and interfaces that have a full output of +20 to +24dBu, and expect to feed something around -10dBu into the guitar amp, hence the 20dB insertion loss.

In 'normal' circumstances, the RDB would be fine... but used with the Behringer interface you'll be losing way to much level just because the source is so unusually quiet!

The simplest solution, as James suggests, is to bypass the RDB and connect the Behringer output directly to the FX chain input. You'll need to be careful with your interface output levels, but you should find that configuration can drive the FX chain and amp much more effectively.

The downside of a direct connection is the possibility of a ground-loop. If you should experience problems with ground-loop hum/buzz when using the direct connection, you'll need to connect via a line isolation transformer, such as the ART Cleanbox2 or DTI models, where you previously used the RDB.

[Jesuslizardjr]

Never even considered the output of the interface, what an oversight!
Do you have any recommendations of simple usb interfaces with just 2-in 2-out that might have a higher output DB? or is this level usually reserved for larger desks.

[James Perrett]

Most of the lower priced interfaces don't reach full professional signal levels although the cheaper Behringer interfaces have lower outputs than many. My Zoom has a maximum output of +12dBu whereas my professional standard A/D and D/A can work with peak levels of +24dBu.

For most things this doesn't really matter as these lower levels are possibly more appropriate for the kind of gear that they will be used with. In your case the reamp box is probably just adding unnecessary complexity so that shouldn't be a reason for changing the interface.

[adrian_k]

I’ve used a UAD Apollo Twin for re-amping through a Radial box (can’t remember which one now), no problem. Checking the spec the UAD max output is quoted as +20.2dBu, so fine for this application.

Less expensive would be a Focusrite Scarlett 2i2, max output +16dBu, a bit lower but a lot better than the Behringer.

But as said above, connecting the Behringer directly to the amp should get you the level you need. You might need to deal with some hum but that will be cheaper than a new interface.

[Hugh Robjohns]

Never even considered the output of the interface, what an oversight!

It has caught out many before you, and will catch out many more in the future!

Do you have any recommendations of simple usb interfaces with just 2-in 2-out that might have a higher output DB?

I wouldn't change the interface just for reamping. As already mentioned, a direct connection from interface to FX pedals and/or amp will probably work just fine. I'd certainly give it a go.

The RDB reamper's transformer provides galvanic isolation, which you won't have with a direct connection. But that's only relevant if your system creates a ground-loop, and you wo t know until to try.

As I said, if you get good level but annoying hum, use a simple line-isolator which will reinstate a transformer but without the 20dB level reduction imposed by the RDB.

[ef37a]

https://www.amazon.co.uk/AV-Link-Ground ... r=8-6&th=1

I have had a couple of those ^ and even put the transformers in a posher tin for a chap who used it in the feed to some monitors. He reported very decent results.
I would expect it to be very good at only +3dBu! Oh and if a new AI is in the running I shall, as ever recommend the MOTU M2/M4 +16dBu out and symmetrical drive.

Dave.