Recording a Taiko ensemble

[twotoedsloth]

Hello,

I'm recording a Taiko ensemble on Saturday night. I was thinking that I could use a pair of AKG C451s, as they have a pad on the microphone.

Should I engage the pad on the mics (C451s) on the preamp (DAV BG1) or the mixing console (A&H SQ5)? Or all three?

Please let me know what you think,

Peter

[Wonks]

Pad the mic first, as this will reduce the signal going to the internal preamp circuitry so it doesn't overload. Only pad the DAV if the signal is too hot.

The C451 should cope with 135dB SPL without padding (provided full P48 power is being provided), and 155dB SPL with 20dB of pad, so you shouldn't need to pad the mic as 135dB is already deafeningly loud. I really doubt the drums will be anywhere near that, especially if miking from a distance.

[Bob Bickerton]

I’d be thinking a spaced pair of SDC omnis, if you have them, to ensure capturing the full frequency range.

Bob

[twotoedsloth]

Hello,

Thank you for the advice Wonks and Bob.

I am going to do both, ORTF with the cardioid (AKG) 451s, and spaced AB with (also AKGs) c480s. Both of these pairs have pads built in.

I also have pairs of DPA 4011s, and 4006s, would these be better? They don't have pads which makes me a bit nervous.

Please let me know what you would do?

Just a small question... the 451 asks for 12v-48v, and the 480 calls for 9v-52v. I assume my board is supplying 48v, as it works with other capacitor microphones, is there a reason why the AKG mics might prefer 48v to 9v/12v?

Peter

[Sam Inglis]

Some older AKG mics will work with low phantom power voltages but I think you will get better performance operating them at 48V.

The 4006 can cope with high sound pressure levels but is a very sensitive mic so you may find it puts out a signal that is too hot for downstream devices to cope with.

[Wonks]

the higher the phantom voltage, the higher the headroom before clipping. You'll only get the quoted maximum SPL figure for the mic before clipping if the desk is supplying the full 48v at source (it will drop from this at the mic under the load of the microphone, but that doesn't affect anything).

52v dc is the maximum voltage that can be supplied under the P48 spec, so the 451 will also work happily if the no-load desk voltage is up a bit from 48v.

[twotoedsloth]

Sorry, I got turned around there...

I'm not using phantom power from my SQ5 mixer, I am going to get it from the DAV BG1 preamp, and an Audient Mico stereo preamp. I also have a Mackie Onyx 800R and a Audient ASP880, if you think one of those would be better or more convenient. I have a Benchmark MicMan Jr, which only provides 12 volts of phantom power, I use this with my AKG c422, and it works great, but I gather for louder sources this preamp might distort?

Again, sorry for the mistake in my previous post.

Peter

[fnkyhd]

can you get a hold of some reference omnis?

[twotoedsloth]

Hello,

I think that the DPA 4006's are considered to be reference quality omnis.

I probably won't use them because they don't have a pad on the mic, I will use my AKG c480s, which are still considered to be a pretty decent mic, if not up to the level of the DPAs.

Thanks for your suggestion,

Peter

[Hugh Robjohns]

I think that the DPA 4006's are considered to be reference quality omnis....I probably won't use them because they don't have a pad on the mic...

I think you might be over-estimating the SPLs involved here. Yes, Taikos are loud... but they are played by hoomans barely a metre away... and hooman ears implode at 130dB SPL or so.

Consequently, if your mics are more than a few metres away they aren't going to get anywhere close to 130dB SPL.

The 4006 is rated at 136dB peak SPL for 1%THD.

How close are you planning on placing the mic?

So, unless you're planning on close-miking the drum head within a few inches I really dont think mic overload is something to be bothered about.

The only times I've needed mic pads have been when close-miking snares and kick drums.

I will use my AKG c480s, which are still considered to be a pretty decent mic, if not up to the level of the DPAs.

These are rated at 136dB SPL, but have a 10dB pad so can probably cope with around 146dB SPL... Great for cloe-miking a snare...

However, I doubt that extra headroom will matter for your Taiko performance, especially as you're talking about conventional distant stereo miking techniques.

Tomy way of thinking the capsules you have available for the C480s will matter more, because I stongly suspect an omni capsule will convey the characteristic very low frequency impact of the drums far more effectively than a cardioid ever could.

For those reasons, I'd feel much happier using the 4006s than a 480/ck61 combo. But if you have ck62 Omni capsules available that might be worth a go.

[twotoedsloth]

Okay,

The Taiko ensemble is doing a rehearsal at 4pm, so I'll try the 4011/4006 combo and if I am getting distortion I will swap out for the 451/480 combo.

Thanks for your advice,

Peter

[twotoedsloth]

Sorry, I think there might have been a bit of confusion, it is surely my fault - sincere apologies.

If I'm using the 480s, I will be using the omni capsules. The 451s are fixed cardioid.

As mentioned, these mics will be the fallback position should the DPAs falter in some way possibly due to extremely loud instruments, though from what Hugh has said, this is nigh impossible.

I always like being corrected as it gives me the opportunity to learn something.

Many thanks,

Peter

[twotoedsloth]

So, it turns out that it wasn't a Taiko ensemble, but rather a Japanese traditional ensemble with just one Taiko, and several wind instruments.

I used pairs of DPA 4011s and 4006s, and I did have to engage the pads on my DAV BG1 and Audient Mico preamps.

If anyone is interested, I've posted the recordings here:

https://walterhallrecordings.music.utor ... rdings/SOS

I've only put the musical performances here, as the rest of the event was lectures.

Happy Monday everyone,

Peter

[Sam Inglis]

That sounds excellent, as far as I can tell (I know nothing about how a traditional Japanese ensemble should sound).

[Matt Houghton]

That sounds excellent, as far as I can tell (I know nothing about how a traditional Japanese ensemble should sound).

^ What he said!

[twotoedsloth]

Thanks very much for taking the time to listen to the recording from Saturday night. I have to confess that I, also, am not as familiar with Japanese traditional music as I would like. Working at a university, I record the Taiko ensemble twice a year, which really isn't often enough to hone my skills in any significant manner. That being said, it's hard to go wrong with DPA mics and DAV/Audient preamps in my signal chain.

I always appreciate comments, positive or negative, so your input is welcomed!

Best regards,

Peter