Compact ambient recording request

[MaltyM]

Hello, relative newbie here. I like to record 'ambient snapshots' of the world. Nothing fancy, just what I hear as I'm out and about on my walks mainly.

I'm a photographer so my rucksack already contains a camera etc along with my rainproof and jumpers and thermos and sandwiches... and then I go and add some recording gear in too. Not a lot of space to allocate to sound recording.

Frustrated at what I was achieving with my iPhone I got myself a Zoom H1n and have been practicing and learning. I'm slowly improving but am starting to find the Zoom fiddly for some bits and wondering if it is time to look beyond it.

For example I was sat on a windy shingle beach this weekend with waves roaring in. I tried recording. As it happens I did a video of the waves on my iphone and the sound is terrible (unsurprisingly). I also did a recording of them on the H1n and the recording is miles better - but I'm still hearing wind despite a dead cat.

Reading up I found that maybe a blimp would have been a good option for that, but a bilmp around an H1n makes for adjusting and start/stop much more difficult, if not impossible.

That started me thinking that maybe the H1n isn't the right bit of kit at all.

Given that I'm trying to do this with a small and light enough kit to take around in a corner of my rucksack I'm wondering what others that do ambient sounds would advise me to do.

Do I need to just plug a mic into the H1n? Do I need a different device?

Put it this way - I'm adjusting gain using a pair of iPhone ear-buds plugged into the jack on the H1n at the moment: I don't even have headphones proper with me.

What's a good compromise for kit for someone just recording ambient sounds when the kit they carry is not going to be the ideal given need for size and weight in a rucksack?

Thanks.

[Bob Bickerton]

I have a similar set up, but with a bias towards recording sound rather than photography.

My rig consists of a Tascam DR100mkiii, and depending on how important the project is, either two Sennheiser MKH8020 or Earsight Omni directional mics (https://immersivesoundscapes.com/). The Earsight mics are very good for the price, but the 8020’s are pro level. Of course, external mics generally give you more flexibility and are (generally) better quality, but you have the problem of managing wind protection and blimps or even Rycote Baby Balls are not small.

Given your requirement for size, I’d be thinking of a portable recorder that can power stereo Omni directional lavalier mics. I used to have a rig which used a Zoom F1 and a couple of Rode lavs and got very good results. I used the small Rode lav dead cats which were quite effective at wind protection and would either clamp them to twigs in a tree using crocodile clips, or have them taped on wire.

Check your H1 manual to see if it can take (and power) a stereo pairs of lavs, it looks like the latest model can (The H1 Mic/Line Input is a stereo ⅛" mini phone jack that can accept two mic- and/or line-level signals. Condenser microphones requiring Plug-In Power (2.5 volts) can be connected to this jack.)

Nothing wrong with using ear buds rather than headphones if you’re really short of space.

Bob

[Martin Walker]

For example I was sat on a windy shingle beach this weekend with waves roaring in. I tried recording. As it happens I did a video of the waves on my iphone and the sound is terrible (unsurprisingly). I also did a recording of them on the H1n and the recording is miles better - but I'm still hearing wind despite a dead cat.

Bob is a true professional soundsperson whose advice is always spot on.

However, when I was recording sounds from the sea for my ambient albums, I often took an umbrella to act as a makeshift windbreak, gripping its pole between my arm and body and balancing its canopy on my head.

You'll probably get some funny looks from passers-by if it's not raining at the time, especially if like me you were wearing wellies and strolling along in the sea itself, but who cares if it reduces some wind noise.

[Wonks]

Martin out recording in stereo earlier today...

[Hugh Robjohns]

I've become a big fan of the Tascam FR-AV2 for ultra-compact hassle-free location recording. Very similar to the Zoom F1/F3. The key point being very compact and using 32-bit floating point recording -- the latter meaning you don't need to worry about setting levels during recording.

https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/tascam-fr-av2

Wind noise is always a problem on location, and the solution is to have an area of still, dead air around the mic capsule -- the bigger the better. Hence blimps being popular solutions.

But, as Martin says, shielding the wind away from the mics using your body or an umbrella, or the corner of a building works wonders too!

And using omnidirectional mics is another big help because pressure-operated mics are much less prone to wind noise generally.

I mostly use a couple of DPA 4060 lavalier mics with fluffy windshields mounted on telescopic aerials to allow me to adjust their width spacing.

[James Perrett]

I would have thought that maybe the Zoom F1 might be great for what you want to do. It is small, offers a choice of microphone modules and has a limiter to make sure that nothing distorts. You can buy dead cat style windshields for the different mics which only cover the microphone and not the whole recorder.

The F1 is also available as part of a kit with a shotgun mic, foam windshield and DSLR mount which seems amazingly inexpensive for what you get.

[Arpangel]

I have a similar set up, but with a bias towards recording sound rather than photography.

My rig consists of a Tascam DR100mkiii, and depending on how important the project is, either two Sennheiser MKH8020 or Earsight Omni directional mics (https://immersivesoundscapes.com/). The Earsight mics are very good for the price, but the 8020’s are pro level. Of course, external mics generally give you more flexibility and are (generally) better quality, but you have the problem of managing wind protection and blimps or even Rycote Baby Balls are not small.

Given your requirement for size, I’d be thinking of a portable recorder that can power stereo Omni directional lavalier mics. I used to have a rig which used a Zoom F1 and a couple of Rode lavs and got very good results. I used the small Rode lav dead cats which were quite effective at wind protection and would either clamp them to twigs in a tree using crocodile clips, or have them taped on wire.

Check your H1 manual to see if it can take (and power) a stereo pairs of lavs, it looks like the latest model can (The H1 Mic/Line Input is a stereo ⅛" mini phone jack that can accept two mic- and/or line-level signals. Condenser microphones requiring Plug-In Power (2.5 volts) can be connected to this jack.)

Nothing wrong with using ear buds rather than headphones if you’re really short of space.

Bob

I'm similar to Bob, I've got a DR100 MK111, and generally use it with a couple of Sennheisers in an MS configuration, in a home-made blimp (see, always the cheap skate) just a couple of very large kitchen sieves I found in a French supermarket, covered in thick ladies tights, Mike Skeet style, I really must get a proper blimp though, it's a pain, but I rarely go far with these.
You may find this chaps video interesting regarding making things for wind protection, although, they are on the bulky side!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twBqvwU0NNI

Moderators, this is a legitimate video, not spam!

[Hugh Robjohns]

Explaining what the video is and why its relevant makes all the difference!

[Arpangel]

Explaining what the video is and why its relevant makes all the difference!

Cool!

[twotoedsloth]

Hello,

Just a quick question about the Tascam FR-AV2:

Can you record to the SD card AND the usb output at the same time?

Many thanks,

Peter

[Arpangel]

A quick one for Hugh, what are the mic amps like on that Tascam FR-AV2?

[MaltyM]

Wow, thanks. I wasn't expecting a huge response to that question and I've got far more than I was anticipating already. Thank you everyone. That's plenty for me to get my teeth into.

The walker in me loves the idea of a brolly almost as much as the photographer in me!

[Bob Bickerton]

And to add to my previous post, yes, if you’re up for buying a new recorder and have the budget, Hugh’s suggestion of the Tascam FR-AV2/DPA 4060 combo is excellent and is one on my wishlist!

Bob

[Hugh Robjohns]

Can you record to the SD card AND the usb output at the same time?

Yes, I believe so, provided they're operating at the same sample rate.

[Hugh Robjohns]

A quick one for Hugh, what are the mic amps like on that Tascam FR-AV2?

They're like amps that make quiet mic signals louder...

I specifically addressed that question in my review linked above.

[MaltyM]

I've had time to search through on those suggestions and understand where they guide me. I'll check the Zoom H1n manual later for its external mic capabilities.

It may be a while before I can afford anything like that though - my Zoom H1n was purchased about a year ago for £81 with £10 worth of dead-cat cover to go with it. The suggestions given are quite a step up for me therefore.

I'm part way through watching the Lawrence Barker video and enjoying it.

[Arpangel]

The Zoom H2n is still a good choice, it's fooled a lot of people I know thinking recordings that we’re done with the internal mic's were done with much more expensive equipment.

[Hugh Robjohns]

...my Zoom H1n was purchased about a year ago for £81 with £10 worth of dead-cat cover to go with it.

Nothing wrong with the H1n — I'd have killed for a recorder than good and conveniently sized when I started out recording on location!

I mentioned the Tascam and Zoom models specifically because you mentioned challenges of setting record levels. These newer recorders (and others) now offer a 32-bit floating point recording format which essentially removes the need to adjust record levels altogether.

When it comes to 'dead cat' covers... they help a lot, obviously, but there are inherent limits as to how effective they can be.

As I said earlier, the larger the volume of dead air around the capsules, the greater the noise reduction. Often those slip-on covers don't leave any space between the fabric and the capsule.

Also, any gaps where the cover fits over the machine allows air to flow inside the cover destroying the noise reduction.

So switching to an external mic (or mics) with a better design of wind protection will usually bring a big improvement. However, these things are not cheap so it depends if you can justify the costs.

Worth keeping an eye on the usual online marketplaces for second-hand gear which is a lot cheaper. Mic wind protection is pretty specialist though and you might find the BBlist website more helpful — it's most ex film and TV hardware.

https://www.bblist.co.uk/

[MaltyM]

Hugh, thanks, I like the H1n output, in general. The interface is fiddly to say the least and handling noise is terrible: I hadn't realised when I purchased it so I now bung it on a tripod which makes the idea of a handheld recorder, which I got for a bit of fun, a little laughable. Now I'm carrying two extra bits of kit and have to set-up more carefully. I'll be carrying a handle for it to isolalte it before long.

As I said this was an 'upgrade' from me recording with my iPhone and I just wanted to capture what I was hearing when I explored. Like photography the deeper you delve the deeper the water reveals itself to be!

I like the idea of not worrying about recording levels in the first place though.

One of my biggest issues with the H1n outside in the wind is the moment you put a dead cat on it that covers up the gain knob and half the screen making the interface all the more awkward.

Thanks for the link to the bblist as I'd not heard of that and will nose around there more.

I suspect that what you've all told me will (at least initially) lead to a DIY cover made out of a pop-up silicone cup and a lot of fur as a starting point until I have budget.

[ef37a]

Regarding wind noise, I had a Tascam DR-22WL which could be run from a phone so the recorder could be totally enclose in a blimp, assuming they are not a Faraday cage?

Dave.

[Hugh Robjohns]

I'll be carrying a handle for it to isolalte it before long.

Rycote make handles with suspension mounts for handheld recorders. I use one with my Olympus pocket recorder and its brilliant. Completely removes all handling noise.

[MaltyM]

I'll be carrying a handle for it to isolalte it before long.

Rycote make handles with suspension mounts for handheld recorders. I use one with my Olympus pocket recorder and its brilliant. Completely removes all handling noise.

That's what I've been looking at too. It's frustrating as a newbie to this as a fun hobby that you buy a 'portable' 'handheld' recorder and find that you can't hand-hold it really and to get a good recording you have to carry far more than the 'recorder' that you purchased for the job, making it far less practically portable.

Oh well - the joy of learning a new hobby!

[Hugh Robjohns]

It's frustrating as a newbie to this as a fun hobby that you buy a 'portable' 'handheld' recorder and find that you can't hand-hold it really...

You can! You just can't move around while hand-holding it!

and to get a good recording you have to carry far more than the 'recorder' that you purchased for the job, making it far less practically portable.

Yep.. same as photography, really. The more you get into it, the more extra stuff you end up 'needing'.

But in all seriousness, rather than buying a hand suspension for the recorder which you already know suffers wind noise issues, it might be most cost-effective in the long term, and deliver better results, to put that money towards a decent external mic and better windshield.

[ef37a]

Another bit of kit to pack but worth it I think is a USB power brick.
My son uses a Tascam Pro40 X and it goes through AAs like donkeys and strawberries so he uses those £1 2400mAH packs you USED to find at Poundland. He finds one of those gives him 6 or so hours use even with phantom power on the two XLRs. And of course, much cheaper.

Dave.

[Martin Walker]

Rycote make handles with suspension mounts for handheld recorders. I use one with my Olympus pocket recorder and its brilliant. Completely removes all handling noise.

I bought one of those as well for my H4N, and t does indeed work well.