Wireless IEMs and cue tracks

[Moroccomoose]

My band are interested in the idea of using IEMs with a cue track.

I've looked at various radio units over the years, but decided it's too much finacial commitment. We need 5 headsets, possibly 6 if we find a keyboard player.

We found these wireless digital units on amazon which would mean we could just buy one each.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/LEKATO-MS-1-Tr ... B0B9W5S4N8

I notice they quote a 12ms latency, but I don't think this matters if we are not sending a backing track to front of house.

With them being wifi, I am curious about potential for interference over thier radio equivalents.

I don't think sonic quality is particularly important over reliability and of course price.

Whether individual mixes are important or just a single mix for everyone etc. How best to distribute the signal 5 ways

Interested to know minimum cost of entry into getting a startbup IEM rig.

Key thing, this is about being able to have a try without a ridiculous initial cost outlay. And how much work the cue track prep takes.

So just generally interested in your different approaches.

[The Elf]

In addition to my more sophisticated Sennheiser system I have the Lekato MS-02. I've no idea what the difference between the MS-1 you've linked to and MS-02 is, but I assumed the MS-02 was the newer of the pair.

For a complete IEM system I can literally stick in my pocket (which is the reason I went for this budget option) the Lekato is pretty good. The 12ms latency is disappointing, but on my model (no idea about the MS-1) you can switch into mono to halve that figure. By the time we're down to 5 or 6ms it's the equivalent of having a wedge monitor 6 feet away. I can cope with that.

The worst thing about the MS-02 is the volume control. It only has a few coarse (5? 7?) steps of volume.

So far I've only used my Lekato in tech rehearsal, but I'm happy enough with it. For the price it was worth a risk. If I find I can't live with it I'll report back to the forum with my experiences.

[Wonks]

According to the description, the MS-02 latency is a lot lower at <4.5ms..

And it's only £5 more.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/LEKATO-Profess ... B0DJSDDCDY

Note that you can only pair one transmitter with 4 receivers (which they say is the same for all their wireless devices), so to distribute the same mix 5 or six ways, you'll need two transmitters. You should be able to use a splitter adapter to feed two transmitters from one output if that's all that's available.

Obviously if you want individual monitor mixes you'll really need a digital desk to give you those outputs, but then the desk latency adds to the IEM latency, which you might find an issue. Especially if the guitar or bass use a modelling pedal (e.g. line 6 Helix) which adds its latency and if there are digital wireless leads for the guitar or bass, that's even more to add.

2.4GHz wi-fi is still going to be vulnerable to drop-outs with lots of people in the audience all with phones, especially if the transmitter and receiver are set up when the venue is empty, as the best sub-channel with a full venue might not be the one picked beforehand.

So using more transmitters located closer to the players is probably better than using a single one, and remember that line of sight is still important in getting the best signal possible.

[Music Wolf]

Not comparing apples with apples here, but.........

I have this wireless IEM transmitter https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0BQ211T3P? ... asin_title which claims <5.5ms latancy. There is some background hiss (still within usable limits) but I don't find latancy to be an issue.

Around the same time I bought this stereo wireless guitar transmitter (I have guitars with mag pickup and piezo outputs so I needed 2 channels) https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B08JD7QKJV? ... title&th=1

Latancy is around 12ms and I found this to be totally unacceptable.

As I said, I'm comparing listening with playing, so not a true comparison. I suppose that, in your case, what matters would be the difference between what the various band members are hearing rather than the absolute latancy.

[shufflebeat]

Is wireless really necessary? Remember that the best wireless setup in the world will only ever be as good as a piece of copper cable.

Have you considered and dismissed a wired option? I have a couple of Behringer P2 boxes that I keep for stray musicians that require IEMs. Various switching/connection options are available and a sneaky (homemade) lead arrangement can incorporate both guitar and IEM signals for ease of use.

[AlecSp]

Is wireless really necessary? Remember that the best wireless setup in the world will only ever be as good as a piece of copper cable.

I'd say that the best wireless setup will only ever be not quite as good as copper.

That said, the latest digital radio mic kit, like Sennheiser EW-D and EW-DX, really is brilliant and, while not "budget", is very reasonably priced for what it is. Just a shame that they still don't have an IEM equivalent (and I don't include Spectera in there, as it's properly pro-budget kit)

Have you considered and dismissed a wired option? I have a couple of Behringer P2 boxes that I keep for stray musicians that require IEMs. Various switching/connection options are available and a sneaky (homemade) lead arrangement can incorporate both guitar and IEM signals for ease of use.

A wired solution with KZ ZS10 Pro earpieces is a cracking setup. Either with a beltpack, as you mention, or a multi-channel headphone amp in a rack, to save on battery issues.

[The Elf]

Just want to report back that the cheap little Lekato IEM system is working perfectly.

There's no discernible latency between my IEMs and a PA 8 feet away from me. TBH I don't stray far to put the transmitter/receiver pairing under much stress, but I can say I've had no dropouts or strange noises during use. I'm slightly peeved at the lack of fine volume control on the Lekato's receiver, but I have a fine volume control on the output of the mixer, so that problem is solved.

I paired the Lekato with my uber-cheap 'backup' CCA CRA buds (there are reasons I'm not taking anything of 'value' on the next couple of gigs), and... stunning. No problems with lack of bass - no need to jam the buds scarily deep into my ear canal to hear anything below 500Hz.

I'm truly smacked of the gob. And to think I only tried this budget stuff to avoid taking out my 'reassuringly expensive' system! Facepalm.

I gave another player a chance to try my new IEM system and he was straight onto his laptop placing an order.

[LukaszPApassion]

Get wired proper headphone amplifiers (stereo) with balanced XLR inputs
Get wireless only for the band member that actually needs wireless because has to move around on stage during the gig.
Spend money for decent headphones
for all of you. Ideally same model for all of you.

[shufflebeat]

Get wired proper headphone amplifiers (stereo) with balanced XLR inputs
Get wireless only for the band member that actually needs wireless because has to move around on stage during the gig.
Spend money for decent headphones
for all of you. Ideally same model for all of you.

You don’t actually explain why your suggestions are important, although I think I understand your logic.

I love a balanced connection as much as the next man but in this case the Behringer (shudder!) p2 in unbalanced stereo mode is indistinguishable from mono/balanced, which can be sent down a single regular cable from the h/p socket of any mixer and fed from the PFL, usually facilitating access to any mix.

It seems pointless to have wireless IEMs and all the faff that comes with them for a drummer but even a relatively stationary guitar/bassist might make a good case for wireless IEMs if they already use wireless for their instrument, although how they justify that connection might be a whole ‘nother internet.

A common model of buds seems obvious but it should be noted that KZ (iirc), a brand which has become very popular recently do not have a design that fits in my ears, while Shure 215’s, which are my go-to do not suit everyone for a variety of reasons so this will probably be an evolving process for any band.

[AlecSp]

Spend money for decent headphones for all of you. Ideally same model for all of you.

No idea why you'd say this. "Decent" means different things to different people. A bass player or drummer may want extended bottom end. People with awkward ears will favour some models over others, and especially benefit from custom moulds. Same model for everyone is pointless, other than for co-ordinating spares.

And, given the OP is looking at lowest cost, then KZ is likely to be a strong recommendation, from ZS Pro downwards.

[The Elf]

Played in Holland on Saturday evening, using my cheap Lekato transmitter/receiver and 19 quid buds for the first time in anger. Perfect.

This is the first time I've actually been able to hear bass on my IEMs.

By all means go for 'reassuringly expensive', if that suits you, but I've found my ideal IEM system for far less money than my previous attempts.

[shufflebeat]

Played in Holland on Saturday evening…

Funny you should mention that, I was out on a rare (these days) jaunt myself on Sat with my Xvive u4 and Shure 215’s in glorious mono. I did the thing I always warn against which is “one in, one out” but stage level was very sensible so I risked an eardrum for some detail.

[MarkOne]

I got the Lekato MS1s a few years ago, and I was a bit like Elf, blown away by them - I was also similarly impressed by the cheapo 5 driver Linsoul KZ ZS10 earbuds. I'm sure if I actually stumped up for custom moulds it would be an amazing setup.

On the subject of wired vs wireless.

I'm a keyboard player and as such really don't have to move about much*...

I also have a Behrenger P1 and have used that. Utter ball ache. Trying to either find the pack on a dark stage when you come on, and fumbling to plug your IEMs into it... or put the pack on off stage and then trying to find the damn XLR when you get to your rig only to find that its been kicked under the pedal board.

*well other than the keytar solos!!

[shufflebeat]

I also have a Behrenger P1 and have used that. Utter ball ache. Trying to either find the pack on a dark stage when you come on, and fumbling to plug your IEMs into it... or put the pack on off stage and then trying to find the damn XLR when you get to your rig only to find that its been kicked under the pedal board.

There are few problems in this world that aren’t resolved with some glow in the dark gaffer tape.

[Sam Spoons]

I also have a Behrenger P1 and have used that. Utter ball ache. Trying to either find the pack on a dark stage when you come on, and fumbling to plug your IEMs into it... or put the pack on off stage and then trying to find the damn XLR when you get to your rig only to find that its been kicked under the pedal board.

There are few problems in this world that aren’t resolved with some glow in the dark gaffer tape.

And those that aren't usually succumb to a liberal application of WD40...

(or haemorrhoid cream)