Mastering - Revox B77 1/2 Track Help

[8bitBarry]

I’m really not quite getting what I am supposed to be doing here. Can anyone give me some pointers with my approach ?

I’ve got a well serviced Revox B77 1/2 track that has been calibrated for SME 900 tape. The tech who serviced it said it was one of the cleanest he had ever seen, inside and out.

After some tests mastering onto it, all I have concluded so far is that it’s really not that different from the digital master. I can’t hear much ‘tape’ character at all.

When I’ve digitised the tape back to digital, the wave forms are very similar, with the only difference is that tape looks slightly more compressed.

I’m trying to use the Revox for some character, then digitise it and tweaking the tape master in Ozone, for a gentle lift using the Maximiser, but I’m struggling to see or hear much improvement.

(It’s all guitar based or dance music)

[James Perrett]

I have the same machine. A while ago someone asked me if I could run some of their mixes through it and was very surprised when he couldn't hear much difference between the original and the Revox version. In the days before DAWs, I sometimes had to copy tracks from a bunch of DATs to a master DAT. Since I didn't have 2 DAT machines at the time, I just used the Revox and I don't think anyone every mentioned hearing a difference between the master mixes and the CD that they ended up on.

If you want an obvious effect then the Revox isn't really the best machine to use. To get any effect, you will need to use the slowest speed and have the meters hitting the end stops almost continually. You might be better off using a cassette deck and really pushing the levels.

[Hugh Robjohns]

After some tests mastering onto it, all I have concluded so far is that it’s really not that different from the digital master. I can’t hear much ‘tape’ character at all.

Sounds like it's in good nick, set up well, and being used within its design parameters.

... the only difference is that tape looks slightly more compressed.

Hopefully, it sounds it too, and there'll be a chunk of harmonic distortion too (albeit pretty subtle if the levels aren't too high).

... I’m struggling to see or hear much improvement.

I fear you've fallen for the Great Analogue Tape Delusion.

Studer-Revox spent decades of painstaking R&D to make their machines as clean and accurate as they possibly could, and a 1/2-track B77, while not the best they ever made, was really pretty good.

If you want 'obvious character', you won't find it there.

You'll need to seriously over-drive the record side to generate the kind of character you want. And running the machine at its lowest speed and with the 'wrong' tape formulation will add some slight frequency response irregularities, and marginally more noise and distortion.

But if I were you, I'd be reaching for a saturation plugin or similar.... much easier and more controllable!

[RichardT]

There's no reason why adding a tape effect (real or plugin) is necessarily going to give you an improvement.

After all, you're just adding a little bit of compression, distortion and noise!

Whether music will benefit from that will vary from track to track.

I would think about adding saturation etc only if you're unhappy with some aspect of the sound, and you think saturation is the right tool for the job.

[8bitBarry]

Cheers guys.

I had a feeling that was the case. I picked it up for £700 just over a year ago from a vinyl enthusiast who was selling off a lot of hardware.

It’s an absolutely delightful machine, great fun to use, but I had a feeling that was going to be the mastering outcome as it sounds transparent.

It’s running at peak performance and sounds bloody lovely but not much different if you catch my drift.

I really wondering what to do with it to be honest.

[James Perrett]

I really wondering what to do with it to be honest.

If you want to go really old school then try limiting yourself to using only the Revox for your recordings. Back in the old days we would build things up one instrument at a time by recording the first instrument on one track, then bouncing that over to the other track while adding the second instrument, then bouncing that track over to the other one while adding something else. You could get away with at least 5 or 6 bounces before the quality of the first instrument really started to suffer. I've heard some demos of some very famous songs which were done in this way.

The great thing is that you are fairly limited in the recording choices you can make so you have to concentrate on the musical side of the recording process. Another nice thing is that you can re-record each part as many times as you like until you get it right but, once you move to the next part, all the previous parts are set in stone and can't be changed (unless you cheat and copy them to another recorder).

[ajay_m]

When I was a teenager back in the 70s, my father, who was immensely supportive of my passion for technology and music, managed to obtain a Revox A77 half track recorder that had been part of a decommissioned audio display setup at the company he worked for.

It was a beautiful piece of precision technology and I had enormous fun with it. Apart from just recording stuff you could loop the signal back from the playback head to create a delay effect. This was particularly fascinating if you first reversed the tape, which on a half track machine reverses the audio, then record the delay feedback to the other track, producing a unique "reverse delay" effect which impressed a lot of people at the time.

You could record someone through a mic and put the delayed playback signal through headphones and challenge them to read a passage from a book. This is enormously difficult and reduces almost everyone to a hopeless stutter.

Also there was creative splicing. You could take a BBC announcer and put their words together to say all manner of rude things.

You could splice tape loops too to make a background you could play against. You could rewrite a Christmas carol score so the melody was reversed, play it on the piano and then reverse the tape so that the melody was recognisable but the notes were reversed.

You could, like a guy I heard on TV once, practice listening to reversed talking so you could say something "backwards" and reverse it to get intelligible speech but usually with a most peculiar accent.

Nowadays all this could be done with a DAW but back then it was just pure magic. You have a wonderful piece of retro technology. Treasure it!

[ef37a]

If there are any nutt.....Clever people out there still editing 1/4" tape I have a pristine EMIblock still in its box, never even took the strip off the adhesive back.

Drop me a PM if you want it as a late Chrissy prezzy!

Dave.

[Hugh Robjohns]

Prized possession!

I have two (and a third bolted to my PR99) and even though I only use them for attaching leader tape or edit repairs these days, they're only going anywhere as bequests!

[ef37a]

Prized possession!

I have two (and a third bolted to my PR99) and even though I only use them for attaching leader tape or edit repairs these days, they're only going anywhere as bequests!

Ha! I bought it some years ago with some clear leader. I had built a remote box for my A3440 and thought I might cobble up an optical tape stop. PITA that the reels only stop when the tape is flapping!
Never got around to it and never will now. Son has spent too long with DAWs and says he never wants to mess with tape ever again!

Dave.

[James Perrett]

If there are any nutt.....Clever people out there still editing 1/4" tape I have a pristine EMIblock still in its box, never even took the strip off the adhesive back.

Drop me a PM if you want it as a late Chrissy prezzy!

A very generous offer Dave. I have one of those too and use it regularly for repairing old splices. The OP already has a splicing block built into the B77 although it only offers a diagonal cut with the built-in cutter.

[Nazard]

I only had, (still have!), the inexpensive BiB block which also could clamp both ends of the tape, although clamping was perhaps unnecessary.

[James Perrett]

I only had, (still have!), the inexpensive BiB block which also could clamp both ends of the tape, although clamping was perhaps unnecessary.

Good splicing blocks (like the EMI and the one on the B77) have a slightly curved bottom which has the effect of holding the tape in place without any clamps.

[Frostm21]

On the subject of editing, I used to have huge fun with my old Ferrograph 631 (still have it somewhere) and enjoyed finding the edit point by scrubbing the tape back and forth. I know I can see the edit points in a DAW, but there have been times I have yearned for the hands-on feel. I have Reaper and a recently downloaded copy of Sadie, can I use the controls on my Beatstep to simulate this. Has anyone managed this?

[James Perrett]

Reaper does this scrubbing by default if you drag the cursor. It sounds just like rocking the tape reels.

The wheel on my Frontier Tranzport will control this scrubbing too.

[Frostm21]

Many thanks!

[Tomás Mulcahy]

Just to throw a spanner in the works, I found the Revox B77 sounded "silky" with Ampex 456, compared to a Yamaha 02R, or that Panasonic DAT recorder that was ubiquitous. This was back in 1993-96 when I used both systems a lot. I wonder if the SME900 formulation is less "coloured" than the Ampex 456? Apparently RMGI SM911 is a clone of Ampex 456. You might get a lower SNR but you might get the colouration you are after, with less overdrive. We had a quarter track B77 as well, and tapes I made on a 1967 Sony TC200 sounded, shall we say, very coloured played back on that. In a good way.

[James Perrett]

Apparently RMGI SM911 is a clone of Ampex 456.

I think it is more that 911's bias requirements are close to those of 456 so you can use it directly on 2 head semi pro machines where re-biasing is a hassle. SM900 is an elevated level tape which will probably be slightly noisier than SM911 but the elevated operating level means that you get more dynamic range due to the high maximum level.

However, it is possible that the B77 can't put enough level on tape to use SM900 in its optimum range. I know the A77 suffered from limited headroom like this but I've not found the same limits with the B77.

[8bitBarry]

I really appreciate all the information and comments. I think I’m going to persevere with the B77 and run some 24bit 44khz masters through it and experiment with hitting the inputs with varying levels.

The machine must have some sweet spots and I feel I need to get working with it regardless. I’ve only made two masters with it so far.

[Nazard]

Is your B77 the 7.5/15 ips 'high-speed' version?

[8bitBarry]

It’s a 15 / 7.5 half track

[James Perrett]

It’s a 15 / 7.5 half track

Run it at 7.5 for maximum effect. Also try using LPR35 tape instead of SM900.

[Tomás Mulcahy]

Yes James you are right. SM911 is a drop in replacement with the same bias and overbias requirements, it is not a clone despite that claim being made on some websites which misled me. Seems it is actually a bit flatter than 456 was.

I would prefer a plugin for this job. Sell the Revox and buy the Cranesong Phoenix II, that is the loveliest tape emulation plugin I ever heard. However it's not super clear how to actually buy it from them on their website? I like Avid Reel Tape too, it does the silky Revox thing I remember, and the Vintage Tape in Izotope Ozone is pretty nice as well. Avid Heat and the UAD offerings are far more subtle and less flexible than any of those, disappointing IMO.

I found two plugins that claim to emulate the B77 specifically:
https://lowwavestudios.com/?page_id=82
https://tone-empire.com/shop/reelight-pro/

[James Perrett]

Seems it is actually a bit flatter than 456 was.

And much longer lasting. I have a reel of 2" BASF 911 from the late 1990s which laid untouched in its box until a couple of years ago. When I put it on the MTR90 it worked perfectly. A few months later I found a sealed reel of Quantegy 456 from the early 2000s. I could see that it was sticky just by unwinding a few cm.

For tape emulation I use Uhe Satin - mainly because it also offers various noise reduction options. I also like using its tape delay emulation.

[ef37a]

Reaper does this scrubbing by default if you drag the cursor. It sounds just like rocking the tape reels.

The wheel on my Frontier Tranzport will control this scrubbing too.

Ooo! I've got one of those somewhere. Can you get W10/W11 drivers for it?

Dave.