I recorded some of my organ music

[guttenor]

I posted on this forum for the first time in 2015 asking for recording advice, regarding recordings of my music. Around 2022 someone on this forum gave me a tip to buy the book ''Classical recording: a guide in the Decca tradition''. I bought it and thought that it was very rewarding to study. I can't seem to find my old posts so I don't know who to thank for the tip.

Anyway, I've recently recorded two of my organ pieces in a church called Tygelsjö kyrka (the church of Tygelsjö) close to Malmö, Sweden. It has a magnificent sounding pipe organ, made even better by the fact that the acoustics are great.

I thought I would share my process from recording the music to mastering it and upload a couple of clips to demonstrate how it sounds. And maybe get a couple of tips on how to improve the sound further. Would that be possible here?

[zenguitar]

https://www.soundonsound.com/forum/sear ... 4&sr=posts

That link should list your posts, if that might help.

Andy

[guttenor]

Thank you for activating that one. Now, could I give a short demonstration on how I proceeded with the recording, and perhaps post a couple of clips? The rules on what you can post seem to be quite strict.

[guttenor]

And yes, it seems I got the recommendation for the book in 2024 and not in 2022.

[zenguitar]

You are more than welcome to discuss your recording here. And you are free to include links to clips to illustrate that discussion as well.

The rule of thumb is that the fora are a place to have a discussion, not a noticeboard to promote content elsewhere. So a conversation here with links is perfectly fine, but a link saying "here's my new recording, follow me on YouTube for more about how we made the recording" would not be in the right spirit.

We don't host audio/video content on the site here. So you need to use your regular on line host. But you are free to offer links to that content in your posts here. Soundcloud is very popular for audio content, but I am sure other hosts are available too.

So feel free to post again and have a conversation

Andy

[Nazard]

It looks like a fine instrument and looking forward to hearing it!

https://www.svenskakyrkan.se/default.as ... 6879&ptid=

[guttenor]

Alright.
I made a layout of the organ loft and how I set up the microphones. Here it is:

The distance between the omnis, a pair of Neumann KM 183, is 64 cm. The distance between the cardioids, a pair of Neumann km184, is 17 cm and the angle between them is around 97 degrees. Both pairs are at around the same height as the top of the wooden wall. The distance between the microphones and the first row of pipes is around 2.5 meters. The XY-pair facing away from the organ is unfortunately a cheap mic-capsule, a Zoom XYH-6. I still think it did a pretty good job of capturing the reverb of the church, which was its purpose.
The recorder I used was a Zoom F8n.

Here is a good look at the organ loft from a distance:

You can see that the sound from the organ goes between an arch and the wooden wall that I depicted before it fills the church.

Here is a picture of the wooden wall:

You can see the longest pipes of the principal 8' sticking up behind the wall.

Here is a picture of the back of the room with pipe organ:

You can see that the longest 16' pipes had to be bent at the top to fit in the room.

Here is a clip from the first movement of an organ sonata I'm writing. It's roughly half of the piece:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1qf3MaV ... p=sharing
Here is a clip from an organ postlude I wrote in 2015. It's roughly half of the piece:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1e1yv66 ... sp=sharing I lightened up the articulation of the piece considerably in 2025. I also realised after the recording that it needs an intro bar (similar to the one in the organ sonata movement). It will help me establish a steady rhythm throughout the piece when I play it.

Unfortunately the organ fan is unusually loud in this church. Here is a clip with no music:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rIjclu ... sp=sharing
You can even hear the fan clearly 10 meters away from the organ.
I used the DeNoise module in Spectralayers to remove some of the fan noise in the Postlude. I did not use this module in the organ sonata movement, or to be more specific I used it before the music starts and after it ends but not during the actual music. I used the eraser in Spectralayers to remove low frequency and, occasionally, high frequency noise in both pieces.

I did not use artificial reverb (I lack knowledge in this area).

I hope you find this post worthwhile.
I would appreciate any suggestions on how to improve my recordings further.

(IMAGES ADDED FROM NEW LINKS BY MW)

[Drew Stephenson]

I'm afraid the photo links aren't working for me, but the audio files are.

[Martin Walker]

I'm afraid the photo links aren't working for me, but the audio files are.

Same here ( and respectively)

[zenguitar]

Yes, I've had a look at the raw image links in the post and they definitely don't work.

They all give 404 Not Found errors so I am unable to fix them. I don't use Google Photos, but it might be worth checking the options for the web links. Perhaps you are using a link for other Google Photos users when there might be other options.

Andy

[Philbo King]

Confucious never said "Foolish man gives wife an upright piano, wise man gives wife an upright organ."

[zenguitar]

I've closed the report.

Just make a new post with the correct links and a brief title for each. With those links I, or one of the other Moderators, will be able to edit them into the original post.

Andy

[guttenor]

Sure!
the view of the organ loft from a distance:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1LZZtrY ... sp=sharing
the wooden wall:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1dFPC4y ... sp=sharing
the back of the room with the pipe organ:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1y09fYg ... drive_link

[guttenor]

And the layout of the organ loft:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1yr1q8o ... sp=sharing

[Martin Walker]

I've closed the report.

Just make a new post with the correct links and a brief title for each. With those links I, or one of the other Moderators, will be able to edit them into the original post.

Andy

Done!

[Nazard]

Your clip of the blower reveals constant tone and volume, it's when they change that blower noise becomes noticeable. When I turn the blower on, (if I'm not on a remote console), I hear the blower, then the sound disappears from my consciousness. The same here, where I wasn't aware of blower noise in the first recording from your sonata which was without removing the blower noise. (Both gave me hints of Paul Hindemith, by the way). Removing the blower sound may cause more problems than perceived gains.

The recording felt a little tight: it captured the sound of the instrument but not the space, but I am sure that Hugh, Bob, etc., will be able to comment on that as I am not a sound recording specialist.

[Arpangel]

Your clip of the blower reveals constant tone and volume, it's when they change that blower noise becomes noticeable. When I turn the blower on, (if I'm not on a remote console), I hear the blower, then the sound disappears from my consciousness. The same here, where I wasn't aware of blower noise in the first recording from your sonata which was without removing the blower noise. (Both gave me hints of Paul Hindemith, by the way). Removing the blower sound may cause more problems than perceived gains.

The recording felt a little tight: it captured the sound of the instrument but not the space, but I am sure that Hugh, Bob, etc., will be able to comment on that as I am not a sound recording specialist.

You highlight exactly what I was thinking, and the stereo wasn’t very wide.
Not enough acoustic, where were you monitoring? Did you get someone else to play a sound check?
Just a thought, I like spaced omi's for organ, a couple of DPA 4006’s were our first port of call, they have a lovely bass, great for pipe organs.

[Hugh Robjohns]

Stereo image seemed plenty wide enough to me, but I agree that more room acoustic would be nice. It does sound like it was recorded at the console rather than in the body of the church.... but that's very much a taste/aesthetic thing.

[guttenor]

Both gave me hints of Paul Hindemith, by the way

I take that as a compliment. I'm a fan of his cello concerto and some of his chamber music in particular.
First of all I'm not monitoring anything since I was playing myself. This is beside the fact that I have no experience in monitoring. I did not have anyone do a sound check. I did however do a test recording at an earlier session when I was practicing. I then tried a couple of mic positions and decided to use the one displayed above.
I agree that the sound could be a bit more reverberant. I turned down the level of the ambience pair during the mastering stage for some reason. I could turn it back up i suppose, but that means I have to do all the noise reduction (removal of click sounds from the pedals and keys) again, since I did the noise reduction on the final mixdown.
Anyway, I plan to do more recordings of my music in the near future (not only of organ music, by the way) so I will consider leaving the ambience pair at a slightly higher level.

The Km184's and the Km183's are very clear and articulate. I especially like the Km184's for it's ability to capture instruments in the alto/soprano range in a natural way. At the same time, I think both mics lack a certain spaciousness. I'm sure the DPA 4006's are wonderful. Unfortunately I can't afford them at the moment. My end goal some years down the line would be to get a contract with a record label so that the whole recording/mastering process won't eat up my time (or money). In fact, I'm willing to work with an experienced sound engineer right now. Though, that person would have to be aware that any income at the moment would have to be through split sharings from streaming sites.

[Sam Spoons]

I do like pipe organs* and I very much liked both the pieces you linked (purely from a non-technical PoV as I'm listening on my laptop), bravo Will listen again later in the studio.

WRT the relative 'dryness' of the recordings (as mixed) rather than doing a complete remix would adding some artificial reverb using a good convolution plug-in improve matters without requiring the removal of the mechanical noises from the keys/pedals?

* Most classical music leaves me cold but, for no explicable reason, I do like a lot of organ music.

[guttenor]

Done!

Thanks for the update.

[Nazard]

Both gave me hints of Paul Hindemith, by the way
I take that as a compliment.

Please do, I started playing the three Hindemith organ sonatas at an early age.

[Hugh Robjohns]

I turned down the level of the ambience pair during the mastering stage for some reason. I could turn it back up i suppose, but that means I have to do all the noise reduction (removal of click sounds from the pedals and keys) again, since I did the noise reduction on the final mixdown.

Like all real instruments, some mechanical noise is expected (especially blower noise), and removing it will often do more harm than good.

Moving the mic array (which is basically OCCO) further down the church will not only capture the organ with more acoustic space, but also reduce distracting noises from the keys and pedals. It might reduce the impact of blower noise too.

Remember that organs are voiced to sound balanced to the congregation/audience, not the organist in the loft, so I'd always start experimenting with the mics that area first.

[tacitus]

I think most of us do as hazard says and tune out the blower noise once we’ve heard it. It was quite an issue when I recorded the Conacher organ at Raunds to support the rebuild grant application but the various soloists were all happy enough with the result, as they were with the extensive editing I did to correct as far as possible the pedals’ tendency to give a short cipher of the adjacent note when the worn woodwork “felt like it”!

I had more trouble with the mike placement as it was hard to get a rich ambience, presumably because the church is a biggish but bare-ish barn. The corollary to that was that we did get good detail, a benefit with players like James McVinnie and John Robinson, both organ scholars at the time. Fortunately we recorded an initial CD with a good local organist who was able to give assistance with assessing the overall sound, so I went into the recitals with a basic technique prepared. Being a typical “box of pipes” instrument one side of the chancel (the right), I set the mics at an angle and worried. But as I say, all the players who let me know what they felt liked the sound. The first organist’s opinions were very helpful.

[guttenor]

Hugh wrote:
Moving the mic array (which is basically OCCO) further down the church will not only capture the organ with more acoustic space, but also reduce distracting noises from the keys and pedals. It might reduce the impact of blower noise too.

Yes, you are right. Most importantly, I think, moving back the omni pair and the ambience pair 3,4 meters would make for a much more spacious and reverberant sound. The problem that is I would need to find a mic stand that I can raise 7 meters into the air, but that's another story.