Art preamp

[ef37a]

With microphone "loop thru" Trying to find the review, sure it was not long ago. 2025?

Dave.

[Hugh Robjohns]

Are you thinking of the MyMonitor II?

https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/ar ... monitor-ii

[Wonks]

For Dave, it would need ‘a lot lot more me’ knob.

[ef37a]

Are you thinking of the MyMonitor II?

https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/ar ... monitor-ii

That's the very chap Hugh! Asking for guy on another forum, the idea is to "sniff" a micc'ed up guitar amp and feed IEMs?

No idea what the Wonky one is on about!

Dave.

[shufflebeat]

If you’re “sniffing” the amp only then a passive mic split and a Behringer p2 might be more streamlined.

If you’re adding the guitar to an existing IEM feed then, as you were.

[ef37a]

If you’re “sniffing” the amp only then a passive mic split and a Behringer p2 might be more streamlined.

If you’re adding the guitar to an existing IEM feed then, as you were.

No go I fear, does not have XLR-XLR "feed thru" as does the Art and that means an extra box,cables etc. To expand...

This is a guy asking about a valve amp with an angled baffle to squirt a louder, more trebly signal to his ear to overcome some ferk**** brass people. I say "ear" because he says he is already 100% deaf in one of them. I am therefore suggesting he does not expose himself to even higher sound levels, the brass players are not going away!

Dave.

[shufflebeat]

No go I fear, does not have XLR-XLR "feed thru" as does the Art and that means an extra box,cables etc. To expand...

Surely the passive split would negate the need for a feed through?

Alternatively, a table to put the amp on and a set of Vic Firth earplugs.

[ef37a]

No go I fear, does not have XLR-XLR "feed thru" as does the Art and that means an extra box,cables etc. To expand...

Surely the passive split would negate the need for a feed through?

Alternatively, a table to put the amp on and a set of Vic Firth earplugs.

Err? Having split the mic's output how does he amplify it to drive an IEM?

Tables and tilt stands have already been mooted. These compound the felony IMHO. The chap is already bathed in such a high SPL that he cannot hear his amp, those measures would simply serve to increase it. Yes, he can wear an ear plug but how then does he get a good balance between brass and amp?

There is evidence now that even acoustic, orchestral instruments have become loud enough to cause hearing loss.

Dave.

[Sam Spoons]

Brass always has been loud enough to cause problems, and to make things worse the sound emerges at ear level. But, with earplugs all elements will be attenuated more or less equally so while the perceived level will change the balance should not.

[ef37a]

Brass always has been loud enough to cause problems, and to make things worse the sound emerges at ear level. But, with earplugs all elements will be attenuated more or less equally so while the perceived level will change the balance should not.

Yes Sam, but the chap is NOT getting the right balance ATMO! For sure, aiming the amp at his head will help but is far from controllable. The Art box would be.

Re brass being problematic? Maybe so but I think all blown instruments have had their bores and hence loudness increased over the last century? I think the rot set in when pianos got iron bed frames!

Dave.

[Sam Spoons]

Re brass being problematic? Maybe so but I think all blown instruments have had their bores and hence loudness increased over the last century? I think the rot set in when pianos got iron bed frames!

Dave.

Iron bed frames (and pianos ) are responsible for a multitude of society's ills IMHO

Good musicians earplugs will attenuate the brass (who are too loud for his aural safety as things are or he would not be needing to be looking for ways to hear his amp) and also said amp which can then be placed adjacent to his one good ear without becoming a recipe for immediate, total, deafness? Sure he will have to learn what a good audience balance sounds like again but isn't he already in that position with the present setup anyway?

Either way he needs to reduce the perceived level of the other instruments rather than increase that of his git amp, you can do that with IEMs or plugs.

IME plugs become difficult when you are singing as occlusion can affect your pitching and level balance, sadly I've never managed to get accustomed to IEMs (though I do have a set) and I don't gig enough these days to bother trying anymore.

[ef37a]

Re brass being problematic? Maybe so but I think all blown instruments have had their bores and hence loudness increased over the last century? I think the rot set in when pianos got iron bed frames!

Dave.

Iron bed frames (and pianos ) are responsible for a multitude of society's ills IMHO

Good musicians earplugs will attenuate the brass (who are too loud for his aural safety as things are or he would not be needing to be looking for ways to hear his amp) and also said amp which can then be placed adjacent to his one good ear without becoming a recipe for immediate, total, deafness? Sure he will have to learn what a good audience balance sounds like again but isn't he already in that position with the present setup anyway?

Either way he needs to reduce the perceived level of the other instruments rather than increase that of his git amp, you can do that with IEMs or plugs.

IME plugs become difficult when you are singing as occlusion can affect your pitching and level balance, sadly I've never managed to get accustomed to IEMs (though I do have a set) and I don't gig enough these days to bother trying anymore.

I bow to your superior knowledge and experience Sam. I simply wanted to avoid the guy getting deaf in the other ear!

Dave.

[Sam Spoons]

I know I'm preaching to the choir here but for the benefit if any neewbs who find this thread later...

Anything that will attenuate the level going into his ear is going to help reduce his risk of hearing damage. The basic principle is to reduce the overall level he hears so that he can make his amp sound louder from his PoV without increasing his risk. Do it either by moving it closer/pointing it at his ears or by amplifying a feed from it into a monitor or IEMs. Experiment to find out which is effective but plugs are cheaper and less complicated so a good place to start.

[ef37a]

I know I'm preaching to the choir here but for the benefit if any neewbs who find this thread later...

Anything that will attenuate the level going into his ear is going to help reduce his risk of hearing damage. The basic principle is to reduce the overall level he hears so that he can make his amp sound louder from his PoV without increasing his risk. Do it either by moving it closer/pointing it at his ears or by amplifying a feed from it into a monitor or IEMs. Experiment to find out which is effective but plugs are cheaper and less complicated so a good place to start.

All very true ^ The world has changed, I regularly see posts (not here) from guitarists who want a solo boost from a pedal. There are good electro-technical and psychological reasons why this rarely works at all well.
It also flies in the face of centuries of ensemble music practice where an instrument was 'spotlighted' by most of the rest of the band shutting up!

Dave.

[James Perrett]

It also flies in the face of centuries of ensemble music practice where an instrument was 'spotlighted' by most of the rest of the band shutting up!

Yes - so many newbies to mixing seem to get this completely the wrong way round. When you are mixing don't think about what is too quiet - think about what is too loud.

[shufflebeat]

No go I fear, does not have XLR-XLR "feed thru" as does the Art and that means an extra box,cables etc. To expand...

Surely the passive split would negate the need for a feed through?

Alternatively, a table to put the amp on and a set of Vic Firth earplugs.

Err? Having split the mic's output how does he amplify it to drive an IEM?

With the aforementioned Behringer p2

Tables and tilt stands have already been mooted. These compound the felony IMHO. The chap is already bathed in such a high SPL that he cannot hear his amp, those measures would simply serve to increase it. Yes, he can wear an ear plug but how then does he get a good balance between brass and amp?

Fit IEMs to attenuate brass, then bring up gtr mic to taste.

Am I missing something?

There is evidence now that even acoustic, orchestral instruments have become loud enough to cause hearing loss.

Dave.

Agree 100%

[Hugh Robjohns]

If you’re “sniffing” the amp only then a passive mic split and a Behringer p2 might be more streamlined.

Thinking about it... I think the P2 needs a balanced line input. A passive split from a mic wont work with it directly.

And it requires a number of separate, connected boxes against the MyMonitor's integrated one box solution.

[ef37a]

"With the aforementioned Behringer p2"

Hang on chuck! Now we have a mic splitter (best of Jensen traffs I guess?) AND another Behinger box?

Ah! I see you have just pipped me to the post there Hugh!

Dave.

[shufflebeat]

"With the aforementioned Behringer p2"

Hang on chuck! Now we have a mic splitter (best of Jensen traffs I guess?) AND another Behinger box?

Ah! I see you have just pipped me to the post there Hugh!

Dave.

Well, you’ve got could do that (also, ART do a nice little traff splitter) but, personally, as one side is a battery powered headphone amp and assuming a dynamic mic, I’d just do a parallel XLR Y cable with no isolation and see if it works [proper techs run screaming/tutting from the room].

[Hugh Robjohns]

Thinking about it... I think the P2 needs a balanced line input. A passive split from a mic wont work with it directly.

I've updated my post above to reflect that information.

[Sam Spoons]

Thinking about it... I think the P2 needs a balanced line input. A passive split from a mic wont work with it directly.

I've updated my post above to reflect that information.

Yes, That's correct (I have considered them for one of my projects)

All very true ^ The world has changed, I regularly see posts (not here) from guitarists who want a solo boost from a pedal. There are good electro-technical and psychological reasons why this rarely works at all well.
It also flies in the face of centuries of ensemble music practice where an instrument was 'spotlighted' by most of the rest of the band shutting up!

Dave.

I don't think that's any different between big bands, orchestra's, jazz bands, rock bands or WHY*. The musicians who are 'comping' play quietly (relatively) and if/when they get a turn to solo they play louder. I do it in an entirely acoustic gypsy jazz environment in exactly the same way I do in a rock trio, the only difference is between how I make myself quieter when comping and louder when soloing. With the rock band I'll use a boost or distortion pedal for the solos and a different boost, distortion or none at all when comping, in the gypsy jazz band/session I'll pick hard to maximise volume when soloing and much more gently when playing chords.

* I suppose you do get orchestra and big band pieces where everybody is playing fff at which point they don't have the option for the lead fiddle to play louder over the top, but the odd trumpet probably can, and a rock guitarist can always turn it up to 12...

[ef37a]

Well Sam you obviously are and are with disciplined musicians!

The guys I am talking about are the wannabe rock gods with egos the size of Wales. The usual story is. "I am getting a good level and sound out of my amp but when I jump on the boost pedal it doesn't really get much louder."

There are several issue at work here IMHO,
1) These guys are often using an amp that is just about powerful enough for the purpose. Boosting the level into the amp just makes it more distorted. Even if it was a 30W valve amp 'cruising' at 10-15 watts, doubling that will make very little audible difference. You need at least another 50 watts to get noticed!
2) If RG gitist did actually manage to get significantly louder the rest of the rabble would just think "F YOU!" and play louder! Especially you-know-who-on-which!

Dave.

[shufflebeat]

Thinking about it... I think the P2 needs a balanced line input. A passive split from a mic wont work with it directly.

I've updated my post above to reflect that information.

Mmm, I seem to remember doing something similar in the dark and distant past but I’m sure you’re right, I must be forgetting some other link in the chain. I’ll explore when time allows.

Anyway, irrelevant. The ART box looks fine.

However, a question. If he already has a mic on the amp it suggests he’s going to a PA and could just have a regular IEM feed. Why the extra faff?

[ef37a]

It was MY suggestion to him that he go for an IEM Shuffs'. He was asking about tilted baffles, amps and wedges. i.e. more noise!

Yes I guess he could get a feed from the desk but then he would not have personal control of level. Or, do some IEMs have inline attenuators?

Dave.

[shufflebeat]

All IEMs have a local volume control and the mix is either negotiated with the person with their fingers on the knobs or via a phone app if the mixer is digital/remote controlled.

Very Important Point:

The whole idea of IEMs and successful outcome relies on blocking out the ambient sound. Without a good measure of isolation the earbuds will be trying to drown out all the background noise and this is a sure-fire recipe for hearing damage.

The struggle most people have with IEMs is learning to rely on the controlled mix and working with the inherent restrictions. It’s a bit awkward but the payoff is massive. When you gat it right everything falls into place and it can be like listening to hifi in a good room. Players relax and play better and audience experience is hugely improved - but isolation is the #1 prerequisite and not everyone can easily deal with that.

It is possible to use the ambient sound and have a “1 in, 1 out” headphone setup but only if stage noise is absolutely minimal, and you have the use of two ears. Neither of these are the case here.

On the positive, if the guy did invest in the p2 and a half decent set of buds then the mono nature of the system wouldn’t be an issue.

I think you’re very wise to suggest IEMs and if your friend can learn to trust the isolated mix it could be a lifesaver.