Optimizing "Cement" Rhythm Guitar: The Side-Wash Strategy for Self-Mixed 5-Piece Bands

[FTJUK]

Hello everyone.

I’m an inquisitive rhythm guitarist in an amateur 5-piece Britpop/Rock cover band (Male & Female Vocals, Lead, Rhythm, Bass, Drums). We manage our own sound from the stage in small pubs (50–100 capacity) and a square 7m x 7m rehearsal space.

My primary role is the "cement" of the band, relentless rhythm strumming that provides the timing anchor. I’ve become fascinated by the physics of live sound and how we can improve our "holistic end product" through better amp placement and frequency management.

My Rig & Philosophy

Amp: Orange TH30 1x12 Cabinet.

Settings: Locked at 15W, Clean Channel Volume 4 (calibrated to approx. 101dB).

Signal Path: Pedals provide the gain (Tumnus, Bunker, Rattler); the amp is a neutral "Clean Canvas".

The "Locked" Rule: We don't touch amp or pedal knobs mid-set; all changes are via footswitches or guitar volume/tone (Sire L7V with P90s).

The Strategy: "Reflective Rhythm"

We are experimenting with a Side-Wash / 45-degree backward-firing setup. Instead of pointing my amp at the audience, I place it at the stage wing and angle it directly at the drummer’s ears.

I would love your feedback on two specific scenarios:

1. Rehearsals (The Square Room Factor)
In our 7m x 7m room, we are positioning amps midway along parallel walls, pulled 1m out to reduce boundary loading, and angled toward the drummer.

Question: Does this "V-shape" firing toward the center-back drummer risk creating severe standing wave issues in a square room, or is the benefit to the drummer's timing worth the potential low-mid buildup?

2. Live Gigs (The "Vocal Pocket")
My goal is to protect the singers by keeping them out of the "ice-pick" high-frequency beam of the speaker.

Question: In pubs with hard floors and glass, does relying on wall reflections for the audience's guitar source (rather than direct beam) generally yield a more professional "front of house" mix, or do we risk losing the "cement" definition in the back of the room?

Conclusion
I’m a firm believer that audiences forgive a few bum notes but won’t stick around for a harsh or muddy mix. I’m keen to hear if anyone has successfully used this "Drummer-as-the-Target" approach to balance a multi-guitar lineup and preserve vocal clarity in self-mixed environments.

[James Perrett]

I've been a drummer in a fairly tight band. My priority was being able to hear the bass guitar which usually meant having the bass amp next to me. The guitar was the next in the priority order but the best position really depends on the venue. Around here just about every venue has a different layout so we had no hard and fast rules. The guitar amp usually sat on top of a flight case which raised it up to my ear level but he used a fairly harsh sound so I didn't want it pointing at me.

If you, as a guitarist, want to provide the timing anchor then you need to be playing with exceptionally good feel and groove. Feel is something that really differentiates the weekend warrior guitarists from the pros. Unless you have that impeccable feel then you might be better taking your timing from the drummer and bass player.

[RichardT]

For me, the best arrangement is one that enables the rhythm section to lock together. What helps is everyone being able to see and hear what is going on.

How that is achieved varies a lot depending on the musicians, gear and the venue.

I would simply say: experiment and try out a few configurations.

[OneWorld]

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Conclusion
I’m a firm believer that audiences forgive a few bum notes but won’t stick around for a harsh or muddy mix. I’m keen to hear if anyone has successfully used this "Drummer-as-the-Target" approach to balance a multi-guitar lineup and preserve vocal clarity in self-mixed environments.

I know nothing of engineering/mixing etc but I can confer with you on the "harsh and muddy mix" point. I have spent a lot of time watching live music in all manner of situations, but there is one common factor that appeals - I like to hear what is going on - the words, the instruments and volume doesn't compensate for unimpressive performances. Myself and my pals will walk out after a pint or so if all we hear is something that sounds as if they are playing at the other end of a tunnel, clarity is so important.

[Murray B]

I use a tilted back 15w amp pointing at my ears.

I'm in the high frequency beam, but perhaps as a consequence of this, I don't use an overly bright sound. The amp is loud enough to hear myself, no more than that. It's mic'ed up and goes through the PA irrespective of venue size.

If you keep the volume to only what you actually need on stage and you shouldn't experience too many problems with the out front sound.

I've never thought of it as a strategy for monitoring for anyone else, as we all have a monitor and can ask for whatever we need. Just make sure whoever is in the 'firing line' actually wants your amp pointed at them . As for using the amp in this configuration for the FOH sound - ?maybe? - it might get a bit lost though. Better to turn it down and mic it up in my view.

Hopefully as the band progress you'll find treating your amp as a personal monitor as a strategy for larger stages works very well. One of the hazards of pointing the amp out front is inadvertently sending that death ray beam of high frequencies straight at the mix position and consequently you won't feature in the main mix in the way that you should. All the sound engineers I've worked with appreciate not having the amp pointing out front.

[Sam Spoons]

Another advocate of tilt back guitar amp placement pointing at my ears, I want to hear me a little louder than everything else but not inflict that on anybody else in the band. I play in a three piece and in on a pub gig I would rely on the backline to get me heard by my bandmates and for me to hear them and all we would have in the monitors is vocals (and, as the lead singer, all I want in mine is me). But I've been playing gigs since long before pub bands had foldback, or even mics on anything except vocals so I am well used to hearing not much else but the drums on stage. But even on pub gigs I would always mic the guitar amp, kick/snare and DI the bass guitar and all would be there in the FoH mix.

On bigger gigs such as the small festivals I often worked at in my 'day job' as a sound engineer I would do much the same for my own band (probably with extra mics on the kit) but usually we'd still only have vox in the monitors and balance the on stage sound ourselves.

The key thing where many pub bands (even some very experienced musos) fail is with volume. Mostly they want it loud and think their audience do too (and often the audience think the same) but as a sound guy I've never, ever, been asked to turn it up* and the most complements come when it's not too loud but is clear and intelligible with everything audible.

* Not quite true, I once did a gig covering for a mate at a mods/scooter rally in a very large venue and he'd installed a totally inadequate rig which was either not loud enough or badly distorted, maybe not the worst 5 hours of my life but close

[James Perrett]

as a sound guy I've never, ever, been asked to turn it up

Yes, pub gigs are often too loud but I have been to a few bigger gigs where the volume wasn't loud enough. In particular there was one the other week where the noise of the audience chatting was very distracting. Normally the level at this venue is high enough to make conversation difficult but when I mentioned the low volume to other friends they said that it is normal at this venue nowadays.

[Sam Spoons]

Do you think some venues are feeling they have to work to lower (sometimes inappropriately low) sound levels these days? But when it comes to pub gigs I've never been to one that was too quiet.

[James Perrett]

Do you think some venues are feeling they have to work to lower (sometimes inappropriately low) sound levels these days?

I have been to gigs fairly recently in another (smaller) part of the same venue where I felt things were too loud so I don't know whether it was down to the taste of that particular sound engineer or whether the larger part of the venue has stricter noise limits. I will see if I can find out...

[Drew Stephenson]

I know of a few venues in Leeds that are very strict on their sound limits - only allowing electric kits for example - so it might depend on the licencing authority (though obviously not in James' case as that's the same venue!)

[Sam Spoons]

I've gigged places with old school sound limiters* and they were a complete PITA, usually set for around 85dBSPL at the mic (often an SM58 only a few metres in front of the stage) and cut the power to the stage after about 5 secs over the limit. I did get around it a few times by unplugging the mic or, if there was no stage, setting up on a different wall for 'aesthetic reasons ' (I never did get to use the 20dB pad I carried in my bag but that would have been a good solution). We were never stupid loud TBH but any pub rock band worth the name would trigger those things without even getting warmed up.

* Either as the sound engineer or playing in the band and sometimes both.

[Murray B]

I've gigged places with old school sound limiters* and they were a complete PITA, usually set for around 85dBSPL at the mic (often an SM58 only a few metres in front of the stage) and cut the power to the stage after about 5 secs over the limit. I did get around it a few times by unplugging the mic or, if there was no stage, setting up on a different wall for 'aesthetic reasons ' (I never did get to use the 20dB pad I carried in my bag but that would have been a good solution). We were never stupid loud TBH but any pub rock band worth the name would trigger those things without even getting warmed up.

* Either as the sound engineer or playing in the band and sometimes both.

I've always take a couple of very long extension cables when I know that there's going to be one of these in a venue , not that I want us to be really loud, but keeping the peak SPL down with a full live band is very difficult.

[Wonks]

And they are often incorrectly set for peak, not average levels. A big difference.