Green Glue alternative?

[mjfe2]

I see that Green Glue is no longer supplied to Europe following the delightful Trump's tariffs. Is there an equivalent product available in the UK?

I'm mostly layering up ply, plasterboard, cement board etc to add mass to walls...

Thanks in advance!

[Moroccomoose]

I'd have thought any construction glue would do it. In the end, you are just looking to create mass in the walls to absorb the energy... I know the green glue was always recommended, but I'm sceptical that the type of glue (beyond just holding the plasterboard together) adds to any significant improved wall properties.

I could be wrong, but someone would have to explain the mechanics of why green glue is so special.

Stu.

[Wonks]

It’s not really a glue. It’s a very viscous substance that doesn’t set hard but allows sine movement between layers if plasterboard to absorb vibration.

A solid bond would transmit much more vibration.

[Wonks]

I see that Green Glue is no longer supplied to Europe following the delightful Trump's tariffs. Is there an equivalent product available in the UK?

Strange. It’s made by Saint-Gobain, a French company.

Even if made in the USA, the tariffs are on imports, not exports.

Are you sure that is really the case?

[mjfe2]

That's what Advanced Acoustics told me but I didn't dig any further!

[Wonks]

It seems it was created by a US company who got bought by Saint-Germain in 2008.

So possibly just made in the US.

[ef37a]

https://www.electricals247.co.uk/wiska- ... 0ml-41904/
That ^ is just one of a range of non-setting sealants I found very quickly. Thinking about it, you could probably use Copydex in copious amounts since it is effectively liquid rubber.

Dave.

[ef37a]

https://www.wood-finishes-direct.com/pr ... 2&size=102

I also found Copydex in a 5L jug but no price unless you log in.

Dave.

[Matt Houghton]

Generous application of low modulus silicon seems to do a similar job. I've never measured its performance, but it doesn't ever sets hard, and as long as the two surfaces aren't screwed firmly in place, it will turn vibration/movement into heat. You need a lot of it, and I found the price varied quite a lot, but you can buy tubes of it in bulk at builders merchants.

[mjfe2]

Generous application of low modulus silicon seems to do a similar job. I've never measured its performance, but it doesn't ever sets hard, and as long as the two surfaces aren't screwed firmly in place, it will turn vibration/movement into heat. You need a lot of it, and I found the price varied quite a lot, but you can buy tubes of it in bulk at builders merchants.

Ah, I will be screwing layers together as I'm purely trying to add mass at this stage. So maybe green glue isn't necessary here? I'm just trying to fill any gaps so multiple layers act as a single mass rather than multiple lighter masses...

[ef37a]

Generous application of low modulus silicon seems to do a similar job. I've never measured its performance, but it doesn't ever sets hard, and as long as the two surfaces aren't screwed firmly in place, it will turn vibration/movement into heat. You need a lot of it, and I found the price varied quite a lot, but you can buy tubes of it in bulk at builders merchants.

Ah, I will be screwing layers together as I'm purely trying to add mass at this stage. So maybe green glue isn't necessary here? I'm just trying to fill any gaps so multiple layers act as a single mass rather than multiple lighter masses...

I would think the application of a damping medium is still a good idea if it isn't horrendously expensive?

Dave.

[mjfe2]

Generous application of low modulus silicon seems to do a similar job. I've never measured its performance, but it doesn't ever sets hard, and as long as the two surfaces aren't screwed firmly in place, it will turn vibration/movement into heat. You need a lot of it, and I found the price varied quite a lot, but you can buy tubes of it in bulk at builders merchants.

Ah, I will be screwing layers together as I'm purely trying to add mass at this stage. So maybe green glue isn't necessary here? I'm just trying to fill any gaps so multiple layers act as a single mass rather than multiple lighter masses...

I would think the application of a damping medium is still a good idea if it isn't horrendously expensive?

Dave.

In which case my original question stands! (Have you seen the price of Green Glue in recent weeks, if it can be bought at all?!)

[James Perrett]

Ah, I will be screwing layers together as I'm purely trying to add mass at this stage. So maybe green glue isn't necessary here? I'm just trying to fill any gaps so multiple layers act as a single mass rather than multiple lighter masses...

Green Glue doesn't really add much mass but it adds compliance. In one of my old studios fibreboard was used for one layer which probably served a similar purpose. This was the classic BBC Camden partition design. Using a layer of fibreboard with 2 layers of plasterboard was found to be more effective than a similar thickness made up entirely of plasterboard. There is quite a bit of information on the BBC Research website.

For sealing gaps between boards AC50 acoustic sealant is the recommended product.

[Drew Stephenson]

If I remember rightly from my reading, two layers of acoustic plasterboard with green glue has a similar efficacy to four layers without.
So I'd definitely try and find something that will do that flex-into-heat job if you can.

[Studio Support Gnome]

Just a quick response without going and calling people .

Green glue was distributed in uk primarily by RPG-Europe , certainly up to about 2018 which is the last time I bought it in bulk .

I could also source it through EQ acoustics , so I’d start by asking Matt Moule at RPG-Europe about the supply side .

No it cannot be replaced by any old glue .

It performs the function of turning multiple layers of material in to an effectively self damping solid mass . By which I mean It reduces the length of time the overall structure resonates for , as well as reducing transmission through the assembly and increasing the mass law performance of the assembly .

Back then There were two alternatives I knew of that were intended to perform the same function in a similar fashion , neither appear present in the current market place .

One of them was I think StGobains own product before they bought green glue , it was pink ,too runny and I found it less effective because using the usual recommended screw and mounting spacing the product would continue to migrate downwards under gravity inside the wall structure . We found it seeping in to socket recesses 6 months after installation , . The other , I was helping develop , I designed and oversaw installation of the wall assemblies applied to the acoustic testing lab in Hemel to assess performance in a direct A/B testing vs green glue to determine whether the product formula was truly competitive in performance, . I think development stalled a bit later due to finance and covid and other external pressures , it never quite managed the same low frequency performance as green glue but actually out performed it a little higher up the spectrum .

Today there are more products available but neither of those products are evident on the market . Several appear to be direct analogues from green glue , such as https://acoustiguard.com/product/sound- ... -compound/

This is not a recommendation, simply observing that alternative products that appear to perform the same function in the same method and are applied in the same way DO exist .

The application method is faster than any of the DIY kludge offered thus far , which from a commercial perspective makes it cheaper per square metre . If materials are same volumetric price , these commercial products are also tested as assemblies using a defined methodology , and can be relied upon to actually perform as stated , rather than finger in the air guesswork .

[Folderol]

Disclaimer I have no knowledge about this subject.

These days there are a lot of variations of plasterboard with about 20mm of some thermal material behind the board. I'm wondering if there would be any benefit from using this stuff, but reversed so that the sound would hit the thermal material first.

[Studio Support Gnome]

Disclaimer I have no knowledge about this subject.

These days there are a lot of variations of plasterboard with about 20mm of some thermal material behind the board. I'm wondering if there would be any benefit from using this stuff, but reversed so that the sound would hit the thermal material first.

Most insulated PB is bonded to closed cell PU insulation, basically celotex on plasterboard , it’s essentially acoustically useless , the pu being light and rigid and closed cell

[Folderol]

Disclaimer I have no knowledge about this subject.

These days there are a lot of variations of plasterboard with about 20mm of some thermal material behind the board. I'm wondering if there would be any benefit from using this stuff, but reversed so that the sound would hit the thermal material first.

Most insulated PB is bonded to closed cell PU insulation, basically celotex on plasterboard , it’s essentially acoustically useless , the pu being light and rigid and closed cell

OK. Thanks for the info.

[Studio Support Gnome]

FWIW two decades or so back I was one of the first commercial room builders in the uk to adopt green glue as a de facto method of improving transmission loss . And pour my money where my mouth was and used it in my own room at the time . ( with help from several friends , including DaveB and I think Wonks and Zukan all got their hands dirty on various stages of the project ( shed building as well as upgrading the room lining and floor etc . ) it was about 2006-7 that we did my garage and shed at the time . It also got used in every commercial build I did subsequently, the results and ease and speed of application method made it far more attractive than previous methods of applying bonded MLV as a layer between plasterboard .

[Wonks]

Yes, I was there helping.

[mjfe2]

For anyone following this thread I can confirm RPG haven't been able to get hold of Green Glue for some time.

And Tecsound 3900 is a Canadian product so they don't ship here either.

Best get out your sheets of mass loaded vinyl!

[Random Guitarist]

Amazon has it

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B000SKWD8Y/ ... 8425157881

Must admit I cheaped out at that price. I used a carpet glue between a thick layer of acoustic plaserboard and a thinner layer of regular plasterboard. The carpet glue retains some flexibilty. Seems to work well enough for me, but I'm not building a commercial grade studio.

[James Perrett]

Amazon has it

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B000SKWD8Y/ ... 8425157881

Must admit I cheaped out at that price.

According to the reviews the seller is probably in the US and has a pretty poor rating - even some of the 5 star reviews are critical.

[Random Guitarist]

According to the reviews the seller is probably in the US and has a pretty poor rating - even some of the 5 star reviews are critical.

Apologies, insufficient diligence on my part