Sync an ADAT to an MC808 via MOTU Timepiece AV - argggggg

[forumuser927284]

Hi there,

Can anyone help me out with this. It is truly driving me around the bend.

I want to sync my MC808 sequencer to my ADAT HD24.

Because the HD24 does not sync to midi clock (even though it has a midi port) and because the only sync code the MC808 understands is Midi clock I have bought a MOTU Timepiece AV to act as a go between.

I have managed to get the HD24 syncing up as a slave with the Timepiece as the master. This bit seems fine.

But how on earth do I get my MC808 to sync too the Timepiece? Does anyone know? As far as I am aware there is only one menu to set up in the MC808 both of what resides in the systems mode. That's to set the sequencer as slave.

So I do this. When I hit play via the LRC on the front pedal socket of the Timepiece the ADAT locks in. But the MC808 does nothing.

I really need to get this working and any help is greatly appreciated. I have done nothing in my studio for over a week now and I'm totally out of ideas. I thought the Timepiece AV was the solution to all studio syncing woes?

Someone has suggested the Alesis BRC. But I've heard it doesnt play well with the HD24. And it's yet more money :-/

[James Perrett]

One clue - look for tempo maps in the manuals. If the Timepiece doesn't support them then its the wrong box for the job. Also make sure that it can send song position pointers. You're going to have to understand all this if you want to work with old gear. You are also going to have to understand those MIDI implementation charts at the back of every manual for anything that uses MIDI. This sort of thing takes a bit of understanding and there are quite a few old SOS articles that would help (although they may be too old to be online).

[forumuser927284]

Hello James. Thanks for the reply. I do have a decent understanding of midi, enough to get me by day to day, but ADAT sync and such is brand new too me. Mind, in saying that it's not the ADAT but that seems too be the problem.

I have the majority of sos mags as hard copies. Got quite the archive here. Not just sos either.

I don't suppose you would know if this isn't the sync box what the box is I acctually require? Someone said the BRC but like I was saying I've heard bad things re the BRC and the HD24 what it wasn't designed for.

[BJG145]

So you need to generate MIDI Clock for the MC808. Have you found anything to suggest the Timepiece can do that? All I see in the manual is:

As a converter, it locks (slaves) to incoming LTC and converts it to MTC and reshaped LTC. As a generator, it produces both LTC and MTC time code, either running under its own internal clock or while slaved to external time code.

That won't get you very far.

[James Perrett]

Hello James. Thanks for the reply. I do have a decent understanding of midi, enough to get me by day to day, but ADAT sync and such is brand new too me. Mind, in saying that it's not the ADAT but that seems too be the problem.

I told you what the issue was in my first answer to your other thread - yet you still seem to be asking the same question for some reason. Look at the implementation chart for the MOTU - does it output SPP and clock? Until you find the answer to this you'll be forever stuck in the same loop...

OK - so I've just checked the manual for you and it is obvious that it isn't the right box for you. I'm not even sure that it can slave to ADAT.

Personally, I would use a computer but, if you really want to do this you could use a MOTU Digital Timepiece to slave to ADAT sync or MTC, take the SMPTE output from the DTP and feed it to a MIDI synchroniser like a JLCooper PPS100 or Fostex 4050 to generate MIDI clock. If you get that working you will soon see why a computer is better!

[forumuser927284]

BJG as far as I'm awares yes the timepiece would become the master clock for everything. But the MC808 would trigger it. Or even the opposite and the ADAT LRC could trigger it all.

James thanks for your extended help. I do appreciate your efforts. I guess some people have different approaches to finding solutions for problems. I have tried all ways to get this too work and so have posted here to request help from someone more in the know than me, such as yourself.

I really do not like using a computer in my studio. I find it too distracting. I currently use an MC808 for sequencing (soon too be cirklon ) and want to get back too you using my trusty HD24. I simply want the sequencer and HD24 to sync up. Never did I think it would be so much hassle!

Sorry if my question sounds annoying for those in the know, but your support is greatly appreciated.

[BJG145]

You said you wanted to slave the MC808, but neither of the other devices give the MIDI Clock it requires. It's a format, like MTC etc, and you don't have anything except the computer that can supply it. To trigger and sync the MC808 from the HD24, it seems you'll need an MTC->clock converter like the BRC or JLCooper devices people have suggested.

[James Perrett]

I really do not like using a computer in my studio.

The HD 24 is a computer.
The MC808 is a computer.
The MOTU is a computer.

You've probably got loads of other computers in your studio if you are using MIDI. If you don't want to be bothered by another screen then buy yourself a small embedded PC, hook up a MIDI interface and set it up to start Reaper in the mode you want automatically (although you may need some way to set the tempo). Far simpler than chaining lots of vaguely suitable vintage sync boxes together.

[forumuser927284]

BJG - I'd slave or master the MC808. Anyway would do. I'm not fussy.

I'd gladly give the BRC a go but as I've been saying I've heard many people say that and the HD24 don't get on.

James - yes I am aware of how even a 1980s s900 sampler is a computer but I feel we all know what I'm talking about. I'm far from alone when it comes too not wanting too use, I'll call it a desktop / laptop / tablet.

Surely there is a way of doing this without a computer? I feel sure there was a time before the modern day incarnation of the modern DAW when syncing a hardware sequencer to an ADAT was common practice? I myself used an Atari ST so have never tried this before with a hardware sequencer but this was back in the 90s and I'm not sure how the sync was achieved.

I refuse to believe I am the first or last person in earth that has done / is trying to do this. But admittedly I seem way more in the minority that I exoected. I was hoping for the type of response 'yes mate, I've done this you need to do this and this' or similar.

Had I known what I was asking was only acheivable by syncing many obscure vintage sync boxes together I wouldn't have bothered but I'm here now with all the kit bar a way of making it sync so determined.

[BJG145]

Perhaps the JLCooper PPS-2 is all you need. Relatively expensive though, and you'd need to investigate further.

You can't just dig up dated, incompatible equipment and expect to find a cheap, simple, non-computerised way of linking it all together. Dated is as dated does. That's why it's dated.

[James Perrett]

There's a massive gulf between MTC and SPP and you seem to be wilfully ignoring this - despite me trying to point you in the right direction in all the threads you've posted. The problem is that once MTC came along, everyone was using computers and there was no need for a stand alone MTC to SPP box.

Of course, if you want to be really old school, stripe one of your HD24 tracks with SMPTE and use one of the many old SMPTE to SPP/clock convertors that were available in the old days.

[zenguitar]

James - yes I am aware of how even a 1980s s900 sampler is a computer but I feel we all know what I'm talking about.

No one here would disagree, we all know what you are talking about. The point that James is making is that you aren't getting what he is talking about.

Yes, it has been done without a computer but you have to understand that it was never very reliable, the hardware to do it was always a niche (and is now completely unsupported, you are on your own with archived web pages your only help), and not only did you have to get your head around some pretty complex protocols, but then you had to figure out the vagaries of your particular hardware combination to (hopefully) make it work. And there was never any guarantee that it would work.

It is great that you see all the potential, and I have no doubt that there are some awesome things that not only could be achieved without a computer but might well be impossible with a computer. But there is a trade off, and that is that you have to become the expert in a bunch of obsolete technologies that in principle could do a lot but in practice were very flaky. Often the sync drift problems were never resolved and they resorted to punching in to tape in sections, sometimes a few bars at a time.

Andy

[The Elf]

FWIW the most reliable tape sync system I used was based on an XRI XR300 SMPTE synchroniser. That box would read SMPTE and spit out MTC or MC/SPP (and Roland sync 24). It also had a feee-running mode, which was very useful. There were many revisions of the XR300, and the early ones didn't do MTC or free-run, so you have to be careful which version you get, but a late one would be worth finding - they were white with an external PSU. The earlier black/internal PSU version may or may not have the later features, depending on revision.

It was relatively easy converting SMPTE/MTC to MC/SPP using Cubase on the Atari, but doing it free-standing means that your tempo/time signature and any tempo changes will have to be programmed into the converter itself - and will need to be repeatedly re-done for each song you want to work on. Gawd, I can feel my life ebbing away just thinking about it!...

[forumuser927284]

BJG:-

You can't just dig up dated, incompatible equipment and expect to find a cheap, simple, non-computerised way of linking it all together. Dated is as dated does. That's why it's dated

m

But mate you can do just that! This is no doubt the frame of reference I incorrectly draw upon to assume getting two bits of incompatible kit and syncing them with cheap simple non computerised way of linking it all together.

I'll give you a few examples.

1 the most obvious one is all the old Roland analogues I have. Thanks to a Kenton MIDI to CV converter it now syncs perfectly via CV to MIDI. And all thanks too one box
1a the same is true for din sync in my 303.
1b and again my Juno 60 syncs to midi via DCB of something.
2 then there is my behiringer Ada pro 8 that changes digital to analogs or analogue to digital.

I could go on.

But this is why I am finding it so hard to come to terms with there isn't a cheap simple non computerised way of linking it all together as the total opposite has been true for decades as demonstrated above.

James :- it's not that I'm ignoring its more I'm trying to make sense if it all. Sometimes you grow a ton of mud and a little bit stick. But not all at once. Scuse me if this is exhausting but this seems too be the way my brain works / always has. I am trying very hard and researching what your all saying.

Re the striping, that wouldn't bother me at all. Infact is quite like that. I'll look into this. To me it doesn't matter if it's an ancient method what matters is if you enjoy the journey or not. As far as a laptop goes I really don't. Yet hardware inspires me. Striping sounds fun. I'm pretty sure that's how my old ST synced to my 4 tracker then later ADAT.

Zen guitar:-

No one here would disagree, we all know what you are talking about. The point that James is making is that you aren't getting what he is talking about.

Yes,I agree. But I sm trying to get my head around all of this as quick as I can. I suffer from dyslexia so sometimes I can read the same thing 3 times and it says 3 different things to me. I'm much more a hands on monkey see monkey do type learner.

Yes, it has been done without a computer but you have to understand that it was never very reliable, the hardware to do it was always a niche (and is now completely unsupported, you are on your own with archived web pages your only help), and not only did you have to get your head around some pretty complex protocols, but then you had to figure out the vagaries of your particular hardware combination to (hopefully) make it work. And there was never any guarantee that it would work

Got ya! Thanks. See that's not what I was expecting at all. I mean even these days people are making admittedly nice products, things like more memories for a Jupiter 4 etc. I was hoping Kenton or someone would have addressed the surely common problem with midi clock to tape. As said maybe I'm way more in the minority's than I thought but how many people have a Jupiter 4? I'm still very surprised in the history of technology considering ADATS were first out in the early 90s no one made such a device.

It is great that you see all the potential, and I have no doubt that there are some awesome things that not only could be achieved without a computer but might well be impossible with a computer

Oh I do. I honestly feel that the reason music these days sounds do similar is not only a combination of my advancing age but also because everyone uses the exact same laptop / daw, same vsts, and all follow the same tutorials on YouTube.

No ones ever going to buy my music. Not that I can live off, so all that's left is the journey of making it for me. Something that gives me immense pleasure. So as the journey is all that's left I walk this path using methods I love. They may not be the easiest but for me the most fun. I grew up salivating around tape based studios and sexy hardware synths and samplers. And that's me till the day I die.

Elf

It was relatively easy converting SMPTE/MTC to MC/SPP using Cubase on the Atari

As much as you know my hate for computers an Atari still does it for me. .

Another possibility is an Mpc as they apparently sync to MTC. Maybes I could insert an MPC or indeed an Atari in between my HD24 and MC808 / cirklon?

Guys, I'm still pretty amazed the time piece cannot take ADAT sync and turn it into midi clock.

[Richie Royale]

MIDI to CV exists because whilst CV is old it is present on synths that are popular and enough people wanted it to warrant companies manufacturing a solution.

Other conversion options do not exist because there is no mass market for them and it is unlikely that one will be forthcoming, although some niche manufacturers do occasionally come up with odd products that solve a problem for a small number of people.

The suggestion of having a computer do the work is valid and it doesn't mean you have to use it for anything but for the purpose of sending the right clock signals to the equipment.

Alternatively get rid of the MC808 and replace it with something that does the same job with the correct clocking options.

[harleyo2r]

Hey there matey! How'd you go with this?

My gear lineup is different (plus ive got an O2R in the mix that i need sync for Automix), but I'm on the EXACT SAME MISSION

JLCooper dataSYNC2 will stripe the tempo map which - from what ive researched so far, should get the job done. I bought one which should arrive in the next few weeks.

Let me know how you got on with this and what worked or didnt.

Cheers mate.

[adrian_k]

Just to point out, this is an 11 year old thread, the OP may well not see your question.