PMC TwoTwo.6 vs Neumann KH310

[ShahidM]

Hello all!

@John Willett
I actually managed to get hold of a pair of both at the same time and compared them to one another.

@Sam Spoons
I would really love to see if people agree with my observations actually so here we go!

PMC TwoTwo 6
- Great Stereo Imaging and a nice sweet spot
- Detailed and crisp sound in general with really unique highs with an upper midrange that really stands out and is generally pleasing
- Smooth bass performance - perhaps a little laggy, but I can't really tell; not sure there's much in it compared to other similar quality monitors like the KH310s.
- Bass doesn't have as much oomph or super lows (the KH310 goes lower anyway) as the KH310s, but then it seem accurate and unhyped to me generally.
- Really enjoyable to listen to and unfatiguing.
- They look great - shame you can't turn the backlight off for film work
- They are light and easy to move
- Multiple inputs is useful and DSP and adjustments easy to match compared to the dial on the Neumanns

Neumann KH310
I will mainly be comparing these to the PMCs so the comments above might just seem too general.
- These monitors have a remarkable way of separating everything in a mix. To me, it allows you to hear all sorts of madness...
- BUT, this seems to come at the expense of energy and knowing 'where' in a mix a certain element is placed. I find that the general sound is somewhat subdued and quiet to the extend that even if there was an element say a dominant snare or clap (ala Michael Jackson) or vocal element that is supposed to sound in front of the rest of the instrumentation or certain SFX in film work ahead of ambient sounds, it would sound like it was exactly the same volume as a background element. I hope that makes sense. I guess I'm saying it sounds compressed, but not in the traditional distorted sense.
- They sound slightly cleaner that the PMCs.
- Their analytical sound makes it difficult to get a 'feel' for a mix and how everything blends together.
- To me, the PMCs vocal reproduction sounds more realistic, but in comparison to the Neumanns it can sound harsh at times. Again, the 'compression' seems to be the culprit.
- Both monitors reproduce the same details, but as with most monitors they just prioritise them in different ways. The Neumann's seem to give every detail a chance to shine through even if you are not usually going to hear it and the PMCs seem to place things in more of the order you'd imagine them to be placed. I guess in summary the PMCs have more depth.
- The subdued nature of the Neumanns makes me feel like the PMCs sound close to clipping and can be sibbilant in comparison but I can't tell whether that is inherent in a mix or if the Neumanns have a strange way or quitening or supressing things to make them sound more clean. That is a mystery to me.
- The KH310 s are similarly unfatiguing.
- Might be my room, but I find that sometimes the low end can resort to sub-bass harmonics making the low end a bit meatier than perhaps it should be.
- Neumanns have a nice feature where you can turn off the logo light and they fade in and out when you turn them on.

I hope some of my ramblings makes some kind of sense to you and please feel free to tell me if I'm talking nonsense or maybe looking at something wrong.

@Hugh
It is so tempting to go with the cheaper ones, but the size, weight and looks of the PMCs are so good

Look forward to hearing from you all!

Thanks,
Shahid

[Studio Support Gnome]

based on your impressions, I would say your acoustics need looking in to....

meanwhile, I would take the KH310 every day, of every week, over anything else remotely in the price range.... you'd need to spend almost double before I'd change my choice....

(and that would be for the SP Acoustics SP25MA )

[CSpencer]

I've had the Neumann KH310's for almost a year and a half and found them to be excellent. The price / performance ratio was just right for my needs.
I also have Dynaudio BM15's driven by a 450watts a side power amp and Alesis M1 Active's.
There clearly are differences in the sound between these but not nearly as much as you'd think despite the 10x price range between the Alesis and Neumanns. They are all selectable with a Mackie Big Knob so instant comparisons can be made easily.

I have a few points for you to consider.

1. To an extent you will become acclimatised with any monitors after a short time of using them. You will learn their strengths and weaknesses. Is this why so many users still like to mix on those awful sounding (old version) white coned 'HiFi' speakers. I could never understand this.

2. The PMC's may sound more exciting to you than the Neumann's but a good monitor should be accurate and neutral, it will encourage you to make your mixes more 'exciting' if that's what you're aiming for. Both monitors have basic EQ adjustments that will tailor their sound 'in the room' to what you desire. However I would not describe the Neumann's as making the dynamics or sound stage compressed as you have described but I haven't carried out a direct A/B as you have. I do find them well balanced compared to 'HiFi' speakers.

3. The last point I'd like to make is how much the effect of your room acoustics and how and where you mount them have upon the sound of your monitors. My room, despite being small is both well insulated and acoustically treated and sounds fairly well balanced. However having recently installed Sonarworks Reference 4 software and making up corrective EQ curves (for all my monitors) I am convinced that no matter how 'flat' your speaker response is, the room acoustic can make a big difference. Having the correction profiles for each set of my vastly different (by price) monitors they now sound less different than before. My Neumann's started off great but now sound a good deal more transparent in my room with the addition of software to correct EQ, L/R levels and phase. That's not a criticism of the Neumann's (or any monitors) but reveals how much affect the room has on the sound.

Hope this is helpful,
C.S.

[ALLAN KING]

Hi mate I’ve got a pair of Neumann kh310s they actually sound amazing and very flat, Ive actually got a pair for sale on the advert section at the moment if anyone is interested only selling these amazing monitors due to moving into a smaller room. Selling a bit of a bargain too

[ShahidM]

Thanks for all your opinions!

I am looking into acoustic treatment at the moment, but unfortunately with a very small flat I have to have them in the living room so extensive treatment is not going to be feasible.

In terms of mixing etc, it is unlikely that I will be using the monitors to mix myself (perhaps very slight adjustments to film and music work when necessary), but rather their main purpose is a playback system to give me a reliable and accurate impression of how a film mix sounds. So with regards to the monitor having a particular signature to lead mixes in a particular direction I am not so concerned if that makes sense.

I'm sure there is no such thing as a completely objectively accurate monitor because at the end of the day a speaker is reproducing a sound in a box! It can only do so much!

I am still torn between the two as I feel just have different strengths. The Neumanns are sligjtly more details but makes things sound a little artificial to my ears but then PMCs sound a little bit too smooth and details seem to get lost in there somewhere despite a great sense of depth woth regards to instrument or sfx placement.

Cheers!
S

[Sam Spoons]

It sounds like you are saying the PMCs sound 'nicer', more 'impressive' or 'involving', all qualities we would be looking for in a HiFi speaker..... But, not in a monitor for mixing or evaluating a mix or track where 'detailed', 'revealing', and 'accurate' are the kind of traits required.

Also where did you compare the two? Unless the room is well treated you won't hear the benefits of high range monitors (my room is quite good now but small so I doubt extending my £1k budget still further will gain me any meaningful benefits).

[CSpencer]

You are over-thinking things (been there myself). Unless you have a half decent acoustically treated room with monitor calibration you're better off saving your money and getting smaller and cheaper but still high quality monitors with less of a bass response like two-way Neumann's, Dynaudio's, Genelec's et.al. Also with an untreated room (without bass traps), then don't get a sub. Anything with a good low end response and you will have all sorts of problems in the lower end caused by standing waves in your room (and you'll also upset the neighbours). Spend some money on acoustic panels. Get some free standing ones if you don't want to fix anything to the walls. Put them behind and to the outside's of the monitors. Finally don't buy monitors because they sound nice, get ones that are revealing.

[ShahidM]

Thanks for all the replies!

Thanks for all the advice. Sorry if I'm giving the impression that the PMCs sound 'nice', that's not the case. They just to me sound like they impart a particular 'energy' that seems built into a mix allowing you to hear the kind of vibe that the mixer was going for if that makes sense. The PMCs are definitely not HiFi or pleasing in that regard, they are just less 'dry'. Accuracy is very hard to define and assess. I did mention that despite their detailed outlook the Neumann's do make vocals sound somewhat artificial at times. I think a lot of our assessments about monitors are also how we feel that things should sound so objectivity is near impossible.

I have been testing all monitors in the same environment.

To give context, in my room, the Focal Trios were too much (although I found them to sound quite hifi and dark). They certainly didn't work for my room and just think I wasn't so keen on the ribbon tweeter. PMC TB2s were ok. JBL 7 series were good. A little harsh and forward, but very powerful and detailed. Amphion One15s were quite good, but for me sounded like where was a gap in the low-mid, stripping vocals of any body. PMC Result were nice and neutral sounding - possibly moreso than the TwoTwos - somewhere in between the Neumanns and PMCs. Hopefully getting some PSIs this week to try. I shan't bore you with my findings, but just for me the PMCs and Neumanns sounded the 'best' in my room.

Would love some affordable <£100 acoustic panel recommendations.

Thanks!
S

[CSpencer]

Re. Acoustic panels try Studiospares.
https://www.studiospares.com
Look under 'Studio Gear' > 'Acoustics'

[Hugh Robjohns]

Accuracy is very hard to define and assess.

It's really not.

You listen to a real voice or whatever in the studio, and you listen to what falls out of the speaker.

I did mention that despite their detailed outlook the Neumann's do make vocals sound somewhat artificial at times.

It is entirely possible that the recording technique made the vocals sound that way, and the speakers are just revealing that. So you have to be really careful that you know your source material, otherwise there's a danger of picking a speakers that makes things sound the way you expect them to sound, rather than the way they really are.

I think a lot of our assessments about monitors are also how we feel that things should sound so objectivity is near impossible.

Exactly, so choice of reference material is critical.

Would love some affordable <£100 acoustic panel recommendations.

Get thee hence to a B&Q, and find thine saw and screwdriver!

[Guest]

I did mention that despite their detailed outlook the Neumann's do make vocals sound somewhat artifical at times.

I don't think so.

[Sam Spoons]

Re acoustic panels Gik seem to be very reasonably priced :-

http://www.gikacoustics.com

But I built my own out of pretty much the same materials (I actually bought the fabric from GIK) and saved about 40%

[John Willett]

Accuracy is very hard to define and assess.

It's really not.

You listen to a real voice or whatever in the studio, and you listen to what falls out of the speaker.

I did mention that despite their detailed outlook the Neumann's do make vocals sound somewhat artificial at times.

It is entirely possible that the recording technique made the vocals sound that way, and the speakers are just revealing that. So you have to be really careful that you know your source material, otherwise there's a danger of picking a speakers that makes things sound the way you expect them to sound, rather than the way they really are.

I think a lot of our assessments about monitors are also how we feel that things should sound so objectivity is near impossible.

Exactly, so choice of reference material is critical.

I do agree with Hugh here.

One of my essential tests of monitors is the spoken word - preferably by someone you know well (and definitely not yourself).

Hear that person live and listen to a recording through the monitors.

And the recording really needs to be done with clean and neutral microphones - or that will show up as well.

[ShahidM]

Thanks for all the help!

I couldn't get my hands on any demo sets of the speakers again so I had to go with my gut (and wife's preference) so will be going with the TwoTwos. I do however wonder if the Results6 offer a better deal considering the fact that I am not likely to take full advantage of the digital features of the TwoTwos.

I wonder, Hugh in particular, how do you think the two compare? To my ear (I heard the Results briefly) they sounded great!

Can't wait to hear your opinions!

Cheers,
Shahid

[Zukan]

At this level it's subjective.

The PMCs will be brutal in exposing the room if my past experiences are anything to go by and I am sure Hugh will correct me if I'm being a Trump here.

Personally, I would grab the 310s.

[ef37a]

With respect to "listening to real sources"? Surely the whole point of recording is that you are trying to capture a 'performance'?

Recording engineers of old were avid music listeners* of LIVE concerts! Classical music but also jazz and big band. They KNEW what instruments sounded like. How many people in recording today regularly go to concerts and jazz clubs?

I agree that well recorded speech from a neutral microphone is an excellent test but also some recordings of BBC concerts? The In Tune programme Hugh covered in the magazine recently delivers some very 'high fidelity' sound. But, 'the ear' must also get out more! Go and listen to PROPER acoustic music! (wish I could again)

*And many were accomplished musicians and brilliant sight readers.

Do it or lose it.

Dave.

[ShahidM]

Thanks for the tip Dave!

Anyone made a comparison of the PMC Result6 and TwoTwos? I listened to them with such a significant period of time between them that I don't trust my own judgement fully:s

[Hugh Robjohns]

I wonder, Hugh in particular, how do you think the two compare?

I bought the KH310s and I've not heard anything yet that makes me want to change my mind.

Having said that, the Twotwos are very good indeed, but very expensive. The Twotwo8 is my favourite of the bunch.

The Result6 is a very worthy replacement for the ageing TB2 and defines the new entry level for the PMC range. It's clearly much more affordable than the TwoTwos, but ultimately the Twotwos operate at a higher level of resolution than the Results, as you would expect.

H

[ShahidM]

Hi Hugh!

Thanks for the reply. I am glad my assessment of the Result6s is similar to yours.

As you can tell, I was torn for months between the 310s and TwoTwo6s and ultimately given that the price I was given for both was very similar and I my wife had a strong preference, I decided on the TwoTwos! I am sure as many have discussed at this price point there is little between monitors as the kind of monitors we are discussing are all quite excellent. I don't think there is a huge gulf in performance between the 310s and 22s and I think that is why I found it so hard to decide. Alas a decision had to be made a my wife was the tipping factor in many ways. There was something about the PMCs that I loved; couldn't quite put my finger on it but I think it's that tweeter!

Let's hope I don't regret my decision! I think I have 14 days to return worst case scenario anyway Appreciate the advice Hugh!

Cheers!

[ShahidM]

I'd actually be curious as to your opinion on the JBL 7 series Hugh. I was quite impressed with the larger 708ps, but ultimately they didn't to my ears trump the neumann and pmcs.

[Hugh Robjohns]

Haven't heard the 8s, only the 5s which I really didn't like at all. Phil Ward reviewed both here:

https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/jbl-7-series

The tweeter in the PMC Result6 is quite different from that in the Twotwos, and the new D-fins are partly to help the Result 6 sound as close to the TwoTwos as possible in respect of the stereo imaging.

H

[ShahidM]

Thanks for the link.

Have to agree with you on the 705ps. They are somehow good for their size, but the low end is all over the place and the HF was quite fatiguing. Of course I'm sure that could be EQ'd out, but I didn't think it was a great starting point. For what it's worth I though the 708s were better. Unfortunately, I don't have an SOS subscription at the minute so haven't read Phil Ward's review!

I thought the D-Fins were just for improved dispersion, but that's really interesting and makes a lot of sense because the TwoTwos have great stereo imaging.

Can I ask, in your review of the TwoTwos you mentioned that they offered a 'similar' midrange clarity to the Neumanns. Do you find that there is a big difference between the PMCs and Neumanns? I know I'm repeating myself here, but please forgive me! I'm trying to get into the specifics of what the differences are. I'm gathering you thought them slightly more neutral and offer a general better frequency range too for the price. I do think the midrange was a touch more detailed. When listening to certain material I could hear slight flaws (particular in foley work on film) more clearly on the Neumanns. A real tough one for me as I'm sure you gathered!

Thanks!

[Hugh Robjohns]

A well-designed three-way monitor will always have advantages over a two-way. As I said earlier, when I was in the market for new nearfield monitors myself I had the choice of many decent high-end monitors, including the PMC Twotwos and ATC SCM25s... but I put my money down on the KH310s and I don't have any reservations or regrets over that decision whatsoever. They punch way --way-- beyond their price point and there's nothing I would rather have in front of me right now, regardless of price.

If was in the market for a compact two-way to replace my vintage TB2s -- which have provided long and worthy service -- the Result6 would probably be it... although I'd be very tempted with the KH80s if Neumann ever get their act together and release the remote control app!

H

[ShahidM]

I take it if the TwosTwos were priced lower they would be a better option to replace your TB2s?

I can see you are very fond indeed of your 310s!! You've been really helpful thanks.

[Hugh Robjohns]

I take it if the TwosTwos were priced lower they would be a better option to replace your TB2s?

Of course -- but they can't be because of the DSP, active amplification, bespoke drivers etc etc... The Result6 is a very good entry-level compromise to the PMC brand that genuinely replaces (and improves upon) the TB2s.

H