ef37a wrote:
If the Vox is in good nick and is loaded with Blues is should by all accounts be devestatingly loud.
Too loud for most gigs in my experience if it is placed low down - but they must be pretty directional because their owners never seem to notice the volume
it's the way it responds. With a cranked AC30 every single scratch, detail and manner with which you touch the string is played clearly, nothing gets lost. If you can play, it's a thing of beauty.
OOoops! Wrong title, it is the HT-60 Soloist I am thinking of. The HT-60 stage is the 2x12 version and that is an SPL beast but almost as heavy as the Artisan 30.
What is the speaker in the 18 watt combo? 30W compared to 18W is only 2.2dB louder, which you might be able to do with a speaker swap. To get significantly more clean headroom I think you'd really need to look at 50W+.
I suspect I'm ahead of you there Wonks, I built the 18 watt from an "Ampmaker.com" kit and love it, I would certainly consider building the 30 watt version but he is taking a years sabbatical. The speaker is a Vintage 30 which was the most efficient I could find since Celestion discontinued the Sidewinder (which, IIRC, had a sensitivity of 103dB for 1 watt at 1 metre).
Wonks wrote:What is the speaker in the 18 watt combo? 30W compared to 18W is only 2.2dB louder, which you might be able to do with a speaker swap. To get significantly more clean headroom I think you'd really need to look at 50W+.
Good point Wonks and why I suggested a jump to a nominal 60W amp.
Blackstar specify their amplifiers at "visible clipping" but at 230V mains input (for UK) but if you take a 10% THD point the power is actually a bit higher. Add the fact that most of us get 240V most of the time and the HT-60 can hit 80W when given the beans.
I think the speaker is a Celestion 70/80 which is perhaps sailing a bit close to the wind but the amp would have to be extremely loud for some time I think to blow one? Certainly never had the problem. You would probably get away with a V30 so long as you were aware that the speaker was only just capable. And aware I think you would be! For 60W in the V30 would hit you with 118dB SPL at a mtr.
Sam Spoons wrote:I have an 18 watt hand wired combo (2 x EL84) which is loud enough for almost all my gigs but am considering a 30 watt (4 x EL84 or 2 x EL34 or 6L6) for a little more headroom for the louder gigs. I'm not prepared to live with the weight of an AC30/Blackstar style 2 x 12 so it has to be a 1 x 12 combo. Any suggestions Dave?
Have a look a Peavey classic 30. 4 x EL84.
I’ve read that the circuit was based on a Vox amp and channel 2 definitely has that vibe. Channel 1 can sound quite fendery.
Best thing is the size, it’s pretty compact and not too heavy.
I really like mine but some people say they can sound a bit boxy but I think that’s true of most small combos.
Have a look at the used market as they can be found pretty cheap!
I had the HT 40 combo which had more than sufficient headroom for my me, but I'm not a 'clean' player. What I didn't like was the 70/80 speaker. The other guitarist in my band has an HT 60 combo (1x12) and it weighs a ton.
The 50 head would mean that you could use a speaker of your choice plus it splits the weight, although increases the cost.
Music Wolf wrote:How about the Blackstar HT Club 50 head + cab?
I had the HT 40 combo which had more than sufficient headroom for my me, but I'm not a 'clean' player. What I didn't like was the 70/80 speaker. The other guitarist in my band has an HT 60 combo (1x12) and it weighs a ton.
The 50 head would mean that you could use a speaker of your choice plus it splits the weight, although increases the cost.
Well, weight is in the hand of the hefter but yes, at 54lbs/24kg it is a bit of a lump.
I have to say though, they never struck me as that heavy? The 2by Stage 60 IS a brute.
After I'd built the 18 Watt my Boogie Mk4 sat in a corner for a few years before being sold. That really was a beast, 36kg....... The 18 Watt weighs about 15kg I think which is great. Peavey Classic 30 has crossed my mind a few times over the years, it may be time to revisit. Or there was a Boogie F50 on FB recently.
Sam Spoons wrote:After I'd built the 18 Watt my Boogie Mk4 sat in a corner for a few years before being sold. That really was a beast, 36kg....... The 18 Watt weighs about 15kg I think which is great. Peavey Classic 30 has crossed my mind a few times over the years, it may be time to revisit. Or there was a Boogie F50 on FB recently.
Most of the weight in a valve amp of course resides in the mains transformer and the speakers. The latter can now be Neos (at a cost!) but it remains, at least AFAIK for someone to produce a valve chassis with a SMPSU?
SM is of course well advanced and mature for low voltages, up to say +&- 60V but a few years ago I tried to find a mains in, 400V out supply with say a 500mA capability? Nothing came up except a few very industrial units and bespoke builders, both solutoons were "limbs" expensive.
Therefore it would fall on the amplifier mnfctr to design such a supply from scratch and that would be an expensive investment. The supply would have to be AS reliable as the copper,iron and silicon we use now and that is big ask because conventional 50/60Hz supplies are very reliable indeed. It would also need to be "in a can" and service replacements made available otherwise few dealers would touch one. SMPSUs are very unforgiving things to fix at component level.
Whatever amp you get, you'll need to get one with a similar 100dB efficiency or you'll end up almost back where you were. 40W and a 97dB speaker and you'd be standing still.
Or maybe a 40-50W 2x12" but fit something like Creamback Neos (97db), so you don't get the weight penalty of two standard magnet speakers (two of those Neos would be almost 2lb lighter than a V30). The two speakers will give a bit more than 3dB gain in volume over a similar 1x12", so you get a slightly greater efficiency overall.
The larger cab will weigh a bit more, and the heavier transformers will add a bit of extra weight, but that's always really going to be the case when moving up in size with valve amps and it would be mitigated to a large extent by the much lighter speakers.
Now if you want efficiency, I've removed an Eminence Redcoat Governor from my 40W handwired 5E5A circuit amp (I swapped it out for a 4.2 lb Neo Creamback) and that's 102.3dB. It weighs 10.8 lbs, so only 0.4lbs heavier than the V30. It sounded good to me but I wanted a quieter amp plus less weight.
ef37a wrote:Adrian, I would love to know, can the TVP60 stand up against mate's AC30 for absolute sound level?
We didn't test that specifically but I doubt it very much. Part of the problem of testing these side by side was getting crunchy sounds at less than ear splitting level, which I think we failed to achieve. The owner uses a couple of pedals.
The whole power/volume debacle between speaker sensitivities and that "a 50W amp is only 3dB more powerful than a 25 watt one is really "non-scientific". Well, the NUMBERS are "science" enough but the subjective experience does not always follow.
For instance, speaker sensitivity is tested, AFAIK with noise (band limited pink? and even there there is wriggle room) with a voltage at the terminals such that it is assumed one watt is being impressed on the voice coil. It is not of course. The current through the coil will depend upon the actual impedance of that coil (for constant V) . Different coils, even of the same nominal impedance will in fact be different.
Even if speaker A was absorbing exactly the same power as speaker B its cone voicing will be different. The V30 for instance has a pronounced mid band "Marmite shout" and will sound louder than a flatter speaker even thought wide band test SPL is much the same.
Tolerances. "They" never give them but I doubt sensitivity is held to better than + or - 2dB? That is a lot of amplifier watts! Thermal compression is another factor rarely discussed. At about 50% rated power input TC can start to kick in and in the limit reduce output by 3dB or more I understand (this is amplifier realted as well, especially re valve amps)
Not all brand compress at the same rate.
The guitar amp clique is perhaps THE biggest progenitor of the "'king night and day" expletive. Rarely are things so clear cut.
The point about testing being difficult at the SPLs these things generate is well made. Be very careful.
What about a Hot Rod Deluxe or Blues Deluxe? A real awkward beast to control the volume on as it all happens between 2 and 2.5 (but a simple potentiometer attenuator in the FX loop makes that far easier but it's got a lot of clean headroom. A Creamback Neo certainly helps tame the output level from the stock speaker on those.
Yup, that has been considered. Can't help fancying something 'hand wired' though (if only so I can tell people it's 'hand wired' ) If I can keep the weigh south of 20kg I think I'd be happy.
) If I can keep the weigh south of 20kg I think I'd be happy.