Your opinon on Studio Monitors with Auto Standby function that can't be turned off

[Honch]

I would even think like that the initial start up spike or spark from going from idle mode to active mode is more than leaving it on.

Is that based on your extensive knowledge and experience as a designer of professional and consumer electronics, or just the story you've invented to make yourself feel better?

No I did actually measured it, which was easily done, on another friends of mines autopowered off studio monitors. On the contrary, we made a bet. He bought them JUST for that apart from sounding great of course. For whatever bizarre rationale behind it. He's a phD in electrical engineering and acoustics and works for a cell phone company that develops mics, and sound part of cell phones. All of them, and then licenses them out. Not specific brand but subcontractor. He knows stuff. The units examined was Tannoy GOLD 7" actives. The new ones. NOTE : With SELECTABLE automatic standby mode.

He brought home meticulous measure equipment, not your regular voltmeter, and we measure the power grid wire to one speaker, with the standby function activated. It read in mA or A or microAmpere if you'd want to. We found no difference in three digit accuracy on the stream when the moniotors actually were in standby mode. I mean only then connected. There was absolutely no difference in "downstream" actually, the current reaching it. So, when we moved the signal to actually produce som signal, it woke up, and a very very slight surge was detected, but it still was within mA spike. Measurable though. How long a monitor should be active in order to make up for that, so it becomes an even wash, we didn't test. We just found a spike, no matter how slight, on this particular item.

I have very well slightly more understanding if it was a lightweight switching high powered amp or a complete fully compliant Class A toroid transformer amp active monitor. For generating excessive heat. However, it was SELECTABLE. It wasn't measurable with those things we had as a measurement or with these specific speakers. So for conserving energy it is a waste or a "hyped" environmental thing only. But in this select case, there must have been something to it whenever they add "selectable" option, that one can use it a a whim, or chose not to.

[Honch]

I was more interested in that the reviews (some) actually labeled it as a con (negative)...

I think Paul listed it as a con in that specific review because that particularly speaker was slow to respond and didn't behave as he expected it to. It wasn't a condemnation of the facility per se.

No, Paul did, but the other one at Music Radar, just listed it as a negative con, without mention it in the review. I e neither that it worked properly nor was a flawed designed one.

[Honch]

Here's another one on those Tannoys.

https://bandrecording.at/artikel/tannoy-gold-8-review/

"Above the Inputs is an Auto-Standby switch which can be toggled on. This engages a mode that will shut down the speakers when no audio is being played back. In this case the power LED at the front panel will turn red. The speakers will automatically turn back on when playing music. This takes about 4,5 seconds, so I don’t recommend it when actively working on a mix."

At least, this one is selectable, and may turn out an unnecessary inclusion since most people will then (if above start up in 4,5 seconds) use it in non-standby mode.

[Honch]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hgZ_2kwojY

This guy admits that it has both pros and cons. He's so out of it. His computer monitor does not go into standby mode, it runs as much as power, but he says so "hey you see my monitor just went into power saving mode. It goes into "screen saver" mode instead, to avoid burn ins. But he doesn't get that.

Is there any burn in on speakers, when they are idle for more than 30 minutes?

[Mike Stranks]

What's going on here?

The O/P posed a 'Whaddya think? Good or bad?' question related to auto-power-off in speakers in general and has received various responses , including several in the 'never been a problem for me' category.

Now he seems on a mission to show that it's a 'bad' - or at least problematic - thing. Why?

If he was of the opinion that is is 'bad' then why not say so up front and provide supporting evidence. I just don't get what this is all about.

[Hugh Robjohns]

No I did actually measured it...

Sorry... I'm really struggling to understand what it was you were measuring and what your tests were supposedly showing...

[Hugh Robjohns]

...but the other one at Music Radar, just listed it as a negative con, without mention it in the review.

Sorry ... can't really comment on other people's reviews. As a matter of policy, we only list something in the Pro/Con section if it has been fully explained and discussed in the main review text.

I can obviously appreciate that you're not keen on auto-standby facilities in active speakers, and that's your prerogative. But I think you'll find this kind of feature becomes increasingly common with new designs.

Of course, many active speakers intended for the professional market allow the auto-standby function to be to disabled simply because there are specific applications where auto-standby is unhelpful, and the user can be considered responsible enough to power-down properly when the speaker is no longer required.

It's interesting and encouraging that several people have reported no problems with their own auto-standby speakers, so while I'm sure that there have been some issues with a few specific designs, or with ageing speakers, it seems the system can work as intended.

[Honch]

If he was of the opinion that is is 'bad' then why not say so up front and provide supporting evidence. I just don't get what this is all about.

No, that what I think is problematic, is that some reviewers out there (maybe not SOS) as I pointed out with Music Radar lists this particular Speaker as a negative that it has not a selectable automatic standby function. I noticed this. And I noted that no or very few lists this as a pro or con, as it is of important thing that it is there or not.

My negative views on them, has nothing to do with that what I wonder whether other thinks that this is an important thing to be listed. As we now know for sure, there are different opinions, and either

a) people don't care, not important, to list it in reviews
b) people care, but don't think it's important to mention in reviews at all
c) people care, and wants it stated in all reviews regardless of whether they like it or not

I for one, have no objection if it exists but sure wants to know in any review regardless of whether I liked it or not.

JBL has a cunning trick to turn it off, but it isn't readily selecatable. I e a little extra mile to walk, so one doesn't think it's just a flick of a switch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_05foHkQ2Y

That I'm not particularly fond of it, well, it could just be the other way around too, but I still want it stated in reviews. And of course, whether it is selectable or not. We've now seen that some reviewers (Music Radar) list it as a CON, while I can very much think that some other reviewer of repute would list it as a PRO (review of the exact same monitor), and yet some other didn't even bother to mention it at all.

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And come on, give me a break will you all, about that small savings adds up to energy savings throughout the world. Globally. Like studio monitors should be something of a household item throughout the world, like domestic hi-fi speakers in the living room. The total number of them are so small, that strangling the current on them after 20 minutes doesn't matter at all, either way.

Besides all this, point me to any EU directive which demands this on new products. I e that one can get fined (the company) if you don't include it.

The only thing I've found is this, and it's all about consumer electrical equipment, not professional equipment.

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content ... 32008R1275

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[Hugh Robjohns]

No, that what I think is problematic, is that .... no or very few lists this as a pro or con, as it is of important thing that it is there or not.

Ah. Okay. You don't like inconsistency in reviews. Fair enough. Best to stick with a reputable and reliable source of information, like SOS then!

[Sam Spoons]

I suppose if people are run the habit of leaving them powered up 24/7 then the 'standby' time could be 75% or more, if you are in the habit of switching them off when you finish a session the the energy saving would be insignificant. In a domestic environment speakers may well be left switched on and a second or two delay before they come back to life is no more than the most minor inconvenience, in that case the benefits of 'auto standby' are indisputable. In a professional situation that delay would disrupt the workflow in a negative way and would be undesirable.

[Drew Stephenson]

I leave my Neumanns on auto-standby. They take about 5 seconds to re-start, but if I've not been using them for long enough that they've gone into standby then that extra 5 seconds just isn't an issue.

[Martin Walker]

A vaguely related issue happened to me the other day - I'd been watching a series on Netflix, and then went into the studio to make some music.

When I returned several hours later, Netflix had been cycling through clips of random series in an effort to get me actively watching something else. Not a problem at all to me, except that I learned the following day that me actively remaining on my shared Netflix account had prevented a colleague being able to log in.

In future I shall sign off from Netflix when I stop viewing

Sometimes auto switch off is helpful

Martin

[Nites]

The way stand by mode is implemented on Kali Audio speakers is annoying. They tend to switch off when listening at low volume levels. And they won't turn on unless you feed them a healthy single level by turning up the monitor controller.

[Honch]

No, that what I think is problematic, is that .... no or very few lists this as a pro or con, as it is of important thing that it is there or not.

Ah. Okay. You don't like inconsistency in reviews. Fair enough. Best to stick with a reputable and reliable source of information, like SOS then!

Yes, exactly. Regardless of anyones opinion. But the reviewer. If you take a look at the Music Radar ones, some of the other ones in their top 10 or 20 list does include auto standby too, but only on the Focal it is listed as a feature and as a con at that. Now, it would turn out very ambiguous if some other speaker and reviewer in the same list would point out auto-standy as a positive then. Some speakers have neg review about auto-standby, and some has positive. Then, when one reads the actual review in full, there's no mention of it at all, like if that auto-standby has a 4.5 second start up time and makes it a CON, or if it has 4,5 millisecond startup time, and - therefore - is considered a PRO thing.

[Honch]

The way stand by mode is implemented on Kali Audio speakers is annoying. They tend to switch off when listening at low volume levels. And they won't turn on unless you feed them a healthy single level by turning up the monitor controller.

See there, I am not alone on this. And it is NOT stated in the reviews. Mostly it is stated in a bypassing way, if at all.

Can you spot any mentioning of it at all, in this review ? (MusicTech is one of repute):

https://www.musictech.net/reviews/kali- ... -6-review/

[Honch]

I... In a professional situation that delay would disrupt the workflow in a negative way and would be undesirable...

See there, I am not alone. Since the EU directive is in the consumer side of things, I think this is an important feature to bring up in all reviews. Manufacturers do no think of budget monitors as a professional thing, but as a mere hobby side for amateurs, it seems.

I have friends that works in public service radio stations in Sweden, and they use small active monitors just to supervise the broadcast, to make sure there is no broadcast interruption (ever). They are left with working with these as "background noise" and if they go silent, THEN they view it as an "alarm bell" and rushes to their consoles and tries to find out what is happening. An interruption of more than 5 seconds is considered national security hazard. Like, someone deliberately is sabotaging something down the line. Reverse alarm bell so to speak. They've expressed serious concern about this, as they have to buy new stuff like every 5 years.

But whether I think it's a con (dislike it) or not, I do like more consistency in ANY review, and as we've heard with the Kali user above, who finds it annoying, he couldn't find anything of this in the reviews first. Neither can I. That you have to "scare" the monitor first with a burst of signal/volume, to wake it up.

So the headline of this topic, was opinion on standby that can't be turned off, as well as inconsistency of this mentioning in reviews. Since more and more of the new active monitors comes with this already implemented. I could just cram in so many words in the headline...it truncates automatically after it being too long.

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I am too, using the monitors for amp sims, Pianoteq software and numerous synth virtual software, and when I am tinkering and dabbling with settings visually, especially tuning up or intonation of guitars, the software automatically mutes output whenever the tuner is engaged. It can very well take more than 20 minutes, and when I turn off the tuner, it is muted and silent and I go "what have I now done...!?!?", thinking I've altered the parameters so much that it produces no sound, and just after whacking the guitar or keyboard with a strong signal it wakes up. The flow is interrupted. As well when I am mixing, one of the A1 formula, is to hear a complete mix at as low volume as possible. You turn it slowly up for detecting "what it the first sound that hits you?" and if it's the hihat, you know that you have to turn it down later in the mix, and so on. You all know that drill.

But now, you know my stance, but leave that aside for a moment, and concentrate on reviews of recent active monitors, which states or not states that auto standby occurs, and how it behaves. I think - if it's not possible to bypass it - the reviews must mention it if it works ok, or so so, or bad.

And I've found inconsitstent reviews of this, even in SOS reviews, as well as MusicRadar, and MusicTech reviews.

The main culprit is, that if you let me have a qualified guess at this, is that reviewers has a lot of things to do, and has no patience, and can't pass judgement on a monitor, with sitting idle, at 20 minutes silent, just to make it go into standby mode, and then firing it up again. They hit it with signals all of the time, to pass judgement on it. At loud and proud volumes. Eager, and no patience.

[Hugh Robjohns]

Yes, exactly.

Great. We're agreed. You must stop reading Music Radar reviews!

...reviewers has a lot of things to do, and has no patience, and can't pass judgement on a monitor, with sitting idle, at 20 minutes silent, just to make it go into standby mode, and then firing it up again. They hit it with signals all of the time, to pass judgement on it. At loud and proud volumes. Eager, and no patience.

I can't speak for reviewers in other magazines and websites... but I am confident that SOS reviews do have the time and patience to check every aspect of a speaker... including noting how it behaves going into and out of auto-standby when relevant.

But I think you've thrashed this particular personal grind comprehensively to death... I'm out!

[Honch]

Yes, exactly.

Great. We're agreed. You must stop reading Music Radar reviews!

Yes, me, but what about all others then? Many relies on just one, the first one they stumbles over.

I take all reviews as one big one, and make aggregate, reading in between the lines, and I review the reviews. One "sites" or magazine review is just another chapter on one topic. The topic is the studio monitors reviews. You know, just like movies reviews (yada yada film got 86% favorable reviews on "rotten tomatoes" and so on).

I do have read and still continues to read SOS reviews, and I have several times paid for single reviews, instead of waiting the time elapse before it has be let free of charge. And most reviews I can't make an aggregate verdict on until SOS have had their say.

But anyway, there are inconsistencies, in all reviews, as we have seen, regarding this particular feature of studio monitors. And others, that seems neglected and even bypassed.

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Regarding energy savings for some pesky studio monitors to go into standby, for either current power savings, or else, I can't even think it would be measurable if you take all studios in the world into account. That is, even if you manually turned them off, each time you took a break, or didn't do anything for 20 minutes.

Today, they say that if you're into music production, the best CPU one can get right now, and it's even recommended for it, is the Intel i9-10900K 10 core 16 thread (or whatever) and can be boosted up to 5.3 Ghz given that the cooling options are optimal, and exotic (which runs at even more power), and to gain that cycle it runs at 95 degrees Celsius and draws a whopping 300 W from the computers power unit. Well, go figure. No standby exists there. Not speaking of the noise it will make due to maxed out cooling (air or fluid).

What you think you're gaining on some things, you'll lose at the other end. Anyway. No matter how you turn, you rear is at the back.

[The Elf]

Any gear that didn't allow me to disable its auto-power off here would be out of the door in short order.

[Honch]

Any gear that didn't allow me to disable its auto-power off here would be out of the door in short order.

Here comes the culprit. You said "out the door". If you've read it before in any review, that one alone would be the deal braker or deal maker, wouldn't it? You wouldn't even have to buy it in the first place, only to find out it should go out the door again (some have return policies though).

But again, if we should be anal retentive nit picky about saving energy, you have to spend energy to return the goods, if you're not satisfied, with the transport, time wasted, and the emission of all things related to global warming, "saving" electricity and yada yada.

I have yet to see any posts here, if people want it clearly stated in the reviews, that its possible to bypass the auto-standby, if present at all. And if, how the auto-standby works.

The reviews are inconsistent on this. SOS and others as well.

[Drew Stephenson]

Hmm. A review is not a substitute for a manual. I'm not really one for casual purchases but for anything serious I will read a couple of reviews but also download the manual. Something like a switchable power off i would expect to be detailed in the manual, i'd only really require it to be mentioned in the review if it didn't work as expected.
Obviously if there wasn't a manual available then a) i'd be less likely to buy it, and b) I would expect a little more from the review.

[Mike Stranks]

This is getting ridiculous.

The Elf made a throwaway comment about 'out the door' and you build a whole case based on that comment.

You are obviously very greatly exercised about this. I'm not sure why, but each to their own. The answer for you is simple. Checkout the specs of gear online, looking for this specific point. Look at photos of the control plates of prospective monitors to see if any auto-power can be disabled. If the spec says the monitor has auto-off and you can't see a way of disabling it then walk away.

Much as I admire and respect the reviews of Hugh Robjohns and Phil Ward I wouldn't be buying gear based solely on their reviews. I'd check out other opinions, read the specs etc etc.

It really is no big deal. Why you've found it necessary to post multiple times about such a relatively minor point is beyond me.

[ef37a]

Hmm. A review is not a substitute for a manual. I'm not really one for casual purchases but for anything serious I will read a couple of reviews but also download the manual. Something like a switchable power off i would expect to be detailed in the manual, i'd only really require it to be mentioned in the review if it didn't work as expected.
Obviously if there wasn't a manual available then a) i'd be less likely to buy it, and b) I would expect a little more from the review.

Yes Drew. I have mentioned before in the forum that do not buy anything unless I can (easily!) download a well written manual.
On the matter of auto-sby on monitors I would not care unless of course it was poorly designed and cut in at low volume levels.

Since cars were mentioned! I am always annoyed by the fact that people increasingly drive with headlights on, often the full gamut of their Chelsea Tractor's illumination in glorious sunshine in many cases. I have poor eyesight, legal to drive but poor, I no longer drive at night, but there are very few days when I would feel the need to waste 150 or so expensively won watts. Expensive not only in MPG terms but also C02.

Regarding valve amplifiers? Yes! When (not if) the "Greens" cotton on with their appallingly low efficiency there will be hell to pay (oh yes! YOU'RE gonna PAY!) The matter is further confounded with people smashing down a 50/100 watt amp to a few mW for recording purposes with a power soak!

I might add that there is a range of valve gitamps (cough!)up to 200W which hard bias the power valves off when the guitar is unplugged from the front jack. In the case of the 200 watter that is a saving of 60W and pro rata for lower powers.

Dave.

Dave.

[Mike Stranks]

Just a detour...

Since cars were mentioned! I am always annoyed by the fact that people increasingly drive with headlights on, often the full gamut of their Chelsea Tractor's illumination in glorious sunshine in many cases.

Most recent cars have 'headlights auto' settings when the lights come on if outside ambient light falls below a certain level. The headlights on my car will activate on a sunny day if I drive through a tree-tunnel. They can sometimes be lethargic in turning-off again... Also many cars these days have daylight running lights - mine does. Could it be those you're seeing when out and about? Jus' a faught...

[ef37a]

Just a detour...

Since cars were mentioned! I am always annoyed by the fact that people increasingly drive with headlights on, often the full gamut of their Chelsea Tractor's illumination in glorious sunshine in many cases.

Most recent cars have 'headlights auto' settings when the lights come on if outside ambient light falls below a certain level. The headlights on my car will activate on a sunny day if I drive through a tree-tunnel. They can sometimes be lethargic in turning-off again... Also many cars these days have daylight running lights - mine does. Could it be those you're seeing when out and about? Jus' a faught...

Yes Mike, my 'new' Megane has auto lights but they seem very intelligent. On even quite dull days they don't cut in but do light when I go into the covered car park at my local Sainsburys.

I am off out soon for bread and, being Tuesday my RT so I shall count the cars coming at me with lights on. Last time I did it it was 3 out of about 5, seems to have gotten worse.

Dave.