Questions for synthesists with ribbon controllers

[Folderol]

I'm basically trying to find out what Yoshimi can already interface with, and whether we can expand that without too much upheaval. The Artiphon looks interesting as it seems to have quite a range of control. We don't have MPE support, but depending on exactly what it transmits over MIDI we might be able to go a long way already.

I don't know how far away you are, so I don't know how practical a loan would be (thanks for the offer) - I wouldn't want to put you to the trouble of sending it - and the associated transit risk these days

If you have access to a fairly recent version of Yoshimi it would be great if you had a fiddle yourself. That would actually be more useful knowledge. You wouldn't be making the assumptions I probably do

[N i g e l]

is midi fast enough for ribbon data ? I guess its a bit like breath control in terms of update rate.

The Hydrasynth & Kurzweil sound engines have direct access to the raw ribbon so speed isnt an issue. The Kurz has a special socket for the Kurz ribbon - PC2Rib.
I think the PC2Rib is just a glorified resistor [or maybe 3], as all the ribbon stuff is defined by the host synth.

If you need note & trig from a theramin type output, you could put it through an MS20 [or K2 ] for volts & trig, or MidiGuitar VST for MIDI in a PC.

[BJG145]

is midi fast enough for ribbon data?

Here's a demo of a USB MIDI ribbon controller called oneString with Animoog. It's an old Kickstarter from a few years ago.

https://youtu.be/4lk16uc2xRo?t=68

I was interested in the comments about how it has a separate position and pressure strip which can be played with one finger, allowing you to control pitch and modulation, "...and that's how the old synths used to work".

[N i g e l]

that is a cool set up, he's even sprayed the BCR fader box white

[BJG145]

It was an open-source project based at straytechnologies.com. Website is long gone but you can still find the build instructions on Wayback. (Main page with schematic and software here.)

I'm interested in building a ribbon controller sometime, though it would take someone with Folderol-level electronics to put this one together without the original kit.

[Folderol]

I've actually seen a design (can't find it now) where a long pressure sensitive strip was fixed first and the position sensitive one put on top of it, so it's single finger for pitch and controller (i.e. velocity/modulation etc.). This used a teensy LC rather than an arduino, which is much simpler for sending MIDI over usb.

I'll probably eventually get round to building one, but at the moment I'm concentrating on finding out what existing commercial kit can be used with Yoshimi - as well as the never ending development and bug fixes {sigh}.

[BJG145]

I've actually seen a design (can't find it now) where a long pressure sensitive strip was fixed first and the position sensitive one put on top of it, so it's single finger for pitch and controller

Perhaps this one...?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cdc2U2_ ... dSimulator

Looks a lot simpler; I'm going to have a go at this sometime.

[Folderol]

Not the same one, but very similar

[MarkOne]

Talking of ribbon controllers and odd instruments, is my mind playing tricks or do I remember in the mists of time there was an instrument that consisted of 4 ribbon controllers that you played a bit like an upright bass?

We’re probably going back to the 70s and it might have been something that featured on Tomorrow’s World..

My googling has failed to find it.

Maybe it was a dream.

[BJG145]

Talking of ribbon controllers and odd instruments, is my mind playing tricks or do I remember in the mists of time there was an instrument that consisted of 4 ribbon controllers that you played a bit like an upright bass?

...you're not thinking of the Theremin Cello...? This was the first ribbon controller, but it only had the one.



The Eigenharp Alpha is also played upright and has a single ribbon controller.

[MarkOne]

No, the more I've thought about it, it was definitely 4 ribbons, about the height of a double bass and the whole body was basically a C profile PVC construction that probably started life as a length of white guttering.

This probably predates MIDI and I think each ribbon created a CV/Gate signal.

But I really can't find anything out there on the interwebs

[BigRedX]

No, the more I've thought about it, it was definitely 4 ribbons, about the height of a double bass and the whole body was basically a C profile PVC construction that probably started life as a length of white guttering.

This probably predates MIDI and I think each ribbon created a CV/Gate signal.

But I really can't find anything out there on the interwebs

Are you thinking of David Vorhaus' Kaleidophon?

[Folderol]

Hmm we do seem to have 'drifted' a bit

[BJG145]

Are you thinking of David Vorhaus' Kaleidophon?

Good catch.

https://www.soundonsound.com/people/david-vorhaus

[MarkOne]

No, the more I've thought about it, it was definitely 4 ribbons, about the height of a double bass and the whole body was basically a C profile PVC construction that probably started life as a length of white guttering.

This probably predates MIDI and I think each ribbon created a CV/Gate signal.

But I really can't find anything out there on the interwebs

Are you thinking of David Vorhaus' Kaleidophon?

YES! That’s it!

Glad my memory was not playing tricks on me!

And this is the BBC TW article I had in mind:

[BJG145]

Time to put some of these to work.



(Arduino with MIDI board, Teensy 4.0 with audio board, Daisy Pod, and an Axoloti donated via the forum.)

500mm membrane potentiometer and FSR on the way...



I swiped a spare laptop from work this afternoon, and just downloaded the latest Debian.

I recently took a look round the local Hackspace, a makerspace with 3D printers, laser cutters, electronics workbench and wood/metal workshops, and decided to sign up.



If I can't make a Yoshimi ribbon synth out of this lot then I'm a Dutchman.

[Folderol]

We will be watching!

[MarkOne]

If I can't make a Yoshimi ribbon synth out of this lot then I'm a Dutchman.

veel geluk

[BJG145]

@Folderol, dunno if you might be able to help a Linux newbie get started with MIDI...

I thought I'd give Fedora 37 a try, on an HP 250 G7 laptop. I've pulled in Yoshimi 2.2.1 and it works fine with the on-screen keyboard.

I've connected up a CME Widi X8, a class-compliant MIDI interface. I've also installed QJackCtl, where I can select it from the "Interface" drop-down, and a random synth called Qsynth which plays OK via a MIDI keyboard.

I'm not sure what settings I need for Yoshimi though...I've tried "Set as preferred MIDI" in the Jack and Alsa tabs. Do I need to change the "MIDI Source" entry from "default" maybe...?

Any thoughts appreciated, ta...alternatively I could try the dreaded Ubuntu Studio or pick up a MIDISport instead...

[BJG145]

*edit*

Forget that, wrong MIDI channel, d'oh. Success...! Awesome.

***************************************************

I've got a name for the ribbon controller...Morse Machine.

The Eowave Persephone...



...borrowed a feature from the Ondes Martenot - the "expression key".



In one of its modes, the right hand is used to play the ribbon, while the left hand triggers notes via this key. So I thought I'd nick that idea, but use a Morse key.



There's tons of the things kicking around on eBay; not much call for them nowadays.

[N i g e l]

Wire + Ring on a finger controller - if you like Messiaen about with modulation....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yx7Vd6agALY

1:50 gets you straight to the good stuff.

Thats what it took to have a real performance instrument to mix it with an orchestra [There might have been a knee controller also] !

[Wonks]

[There might have been a knee controller also] !

Ni!

[ManFromGlass]

Nnnnnnni!

[BJG145]

At lunchtime I abandoned my Teams vigil to collect the Artiphon Instrument from MIDI storage silo #2. (My mum's spare room. It's okay; she says she doesn't mind.)

There's a lot of Linux distros out there. I hadn't thought about Fedora until Folderol mentioned it, but it looks promising so far. It picked up the Artiphon and Yoshimi 2.2.1 without any fuss for some plucked strings in guitar mode.

I need to investigate what it can do as a ribbon-esque controller next. Also, the membrane potentiometer arrived today so I can start messing with that.