Minimum HW and SW for top/professional audio quality output

[Wonks]

You must have been reading different SOS articles to me then!

[Bob Bickerton]

........My Tannoys for example are in my living room and that has a heavy carpet/underlay over wood, Heavy curtains and a socking great sofa in it. Works for me........

There you go it does make a difference! and worth noting for newcomers........

Bob

[RichardT]

But FullPoker has a way to go yet as he's just started out with music software. They're not going to go from someone's 6 to a 10 in a few weeks. Even if naturally talented in composition there's a lot of technique and understanding to pick up, which doesn't come quickly.

When you are new, it's very easy to think you've come up with a great sounding, well produced track, but compared to a full pro track, there will almost certainly be a lot missing, especially variations in sound, rhythm and 'fairy dust'.

You may get from 6 to an 8 fairly quickly with guidance and feedback, but the learning and progress becomes slower from then on.

So I'd suggest carrying on with what you've currently got until you maybe think you're at say an 8, and then review where you are and if you want to carry on. If you do, then think about room acoustic treatment and some good monitors. Because good monitors are only good in an acoustically treated room.

I agree completely!

[ef37a]

........My Tannoys for example are in my living room and that has a heavy carpet/underlay over wood, Heavy curtains and a socking great sofa in it. Works for me........

There you go it does make a difference! and worth noting for newcomers........

Bob

I was pointing out (as I am sure you knew only too well) that many rooms are already pretty well 'treated' with carpet, furniture etc. Sure, if the guy lived in a place with bare plaster walls and a hard floor with stainless minimalist chairs he would need to do something about it.

The extra steps needed (as exemplified in the SOS articles*) amount usually to killing reflections and maybe a bit of trapping but not to any expensive extent.

Yes of course, for commercial work a much greater degree of room treatment would be needed and one would call in a professional and spend thousands. But, as the Irishman said, "You wouldn't start from here".

*There have been none of course for a couple of years but I dug out 3 and they did not go overboard with treatment. Maybe find a few and understand my points?

Dave.

[Bob Bickerton]

Dave, we're on the same page, I just felt for the benefit of people reading this thread that it was worth clarifying that it's considered practice around here to consider acoustic treatment (in whatever form) when setting up a room - bathroom or not.

Didn't mean to offend

Bob

[ef37a]

Dave, we're on the same page, I just felt for the benefit of people reading this thread that it was worth clarifying that it's considered practice around here to consider acoustic treatment (in whatever form) when setting up a room - bathroom or not.

Didn't mean to offend

Bob

Not offended in the slightest Bob. I am just a bit worried when certain people on forums, at the mention of monitors insist folk go and strip the shelves of GF at B&Q!

Dave.

[Sam Spoons]

Likewise Dave, we have shared this forum long enough to not wish to cause offence but I have personal experience of recording in my living room (with two sofas, heavy curtains and a thick carpet), and my 'studio' with both rudimentary treatment and more considered and extensive acoustic treatment and, if I'm evangelical about the matter it's because the difference between the three is dramatic. The living room was exactly what you would expect, it's a fairly big room by domestic standards, 17' x 15' x 10' 6", but sounded boxy and 'amateur', the much smaller 'studio' was a little better with a few 'egg box' foam panels on the ceiling over the drum kit and a strategically placed duvet. Fitting the 'proper' acoustic panels when I refurbished the room a few years ago was a revelation and gave me a much nicer sounding space to rehearse, record and mix in. I realise the OP is not recording with microphones but the basic principle still remains that an untreated room is not going to help the pursuit of excellence when aspiring to mix music to a professional (as he desires) standard. I'm not suggesting spending hundreds of pounds/dollars but, for just mixing not recording/rehearsing, I could have used half the panels I installed and I spent a little over £300 on 13 panels to treat my room but four broad band panels (costing about £25 each to DIY) at the mirror points would make a huge difference to an otherwise untreated room.

[Bob Bickerton]

Dave, we're on the same page, I just felt for the benefit of people reading this thread that it was worth clarifying that it's considered practice around here to consider acoustic treatment (in whatever form) when setting up a room - bathroom or not.

Didn't mean to offend

Bob

Not offended in the slightest Bob. I am just a bit worried when certain people on forums, at the mention of monitors insist folk go and strip the shelves of GF at B&Q!

Dave.

I'm sorry we're down this rabbit-hole. No one is suggesting stripping shelves anywhere - I, and others, are simply saying acoustic treatment should be a consideration. It's been discussed hundreds of times in these forums and in SOS articles. Simple as that!

Bob

[Drew Stephenson]

Probably worth heading this side-track off at the pass.

Back to the OP, what you have now is all you need for now. Wonks' point about revisiting it once you've raised your own standards is when the rest of this discussion really kicks in.

[Philbo King]

This has always been true:
It isn't what you have, it's what you do with it.

Gear is a tool to get a task done. The mechanic does not invest in platinum-plated socket sets, he uses the tool that will do the job with minimum cost and time.

The song, arrangement, performance, and passion (defined here as the ability to evoke emotion in the listener) are far more important than whether you used a pair of U47 mics for drum overhead mics or recorded it with this DAW or that DAW.

There are things you can do to make mixing easier. Measure playback response at listening position with a measurement mic and determine the frequency response of your room/speaker setup. Add acoustics room treatment and/or uograde your monitors if needed (treatment is almost always needed). Add digital minimum phase EQ if needed to cut freq response peaks due to room nodes.
That gives you technical accuracy.

But it will not create an engaging musical performance. Some of the best music in the last century was made in technically imperfect rooms. Patsy Cline's biggest hit song was recorded in a quanset hut (a steel storage shed) on a 2 or 3 track tape machine. The magic was in the song and the singing, and the technical imoerfections were overshadowed by her performance.

[Arpangel]

What I managed to achieve with Better Off Alone was a 6 (out of my personal scale between 0 and 10), but I want to get to 10 otherwise I will not enjoy it enough to sustain the effort required to get there

By the way, I bought the Motu2, the DT990 and the low entry gaming laptop only a few days ago. I did the cover with crappy headphones and the crappy default sound card of a my PC (Ryzen 5 - 6 cores 1600; 8 GB RAM).I think that the PC was still fine as the FL Studio CPU never went above 20%... I bought the laptop to get portable...with a significant upgrade of CPU and RAM not be forced to change it soon...

Cheers,
FullPoker

I think your original post wasn’t necessary, you seem to be doing fine.
Also, I find it a bit strange, that you’re rating the things you do on a "scale" of 1-10 this is all a bit clinical, and also, unnecessary.
Just concentrate on your music, and don’t over-think the gear.

[jaminem]

And yes, that Better Off Alone song is crazy. ...I think it is a little piece of art, especially considered that was done almost 25 years ago...

I bought it new as a CD single when it came out after hearing it in clubs...

[ef37a]

What I managed to achieve with Better Off Alone was a 6 (out of my personal scale between 0 and 10), but I want to get to 10 otherwise I will not enjoy it enough to sustain the effort required to get there

By the way, I bought the Motu2, the DT990 and the low entry gaming laptop only a few days ago. I did the cover with crappy headphones and the crappy default sound card of a my PC (Ryzen 5 - 6 cores 1600; 8 GB RAM).I think that the PC was still fine as the FL Studio CPU never went above 20%... I bought the laptop to get portable...with a significant upgrade of CPU and RAM not be forced to change it soon...

Cheers,
FullPoker

I think your original post wasn’t necessary, you seem to be doing fine.
Also, I find it a bit strange, that you’re rating the things you do on a "scale" of 1-10 this is all a bit clinical, and also, unnecessary.
Just concentrate on your music, and don’t over-think the gear.

Well, "Blows me down Olive" I find myself in almost complete agreement with you for once Mr Tony. (could have added "and room" Boom! Boom!)

Dave.

[Exalted Wombat]

Uncalled-for comment removed --ED.

[Eddy Deegan]

Come on EW, if you want to hear something then ask politely please.

[FullPoker]

But FullPoker has a way to go yet as he's just started out with music software. They're not going to go from someone's 6 to a 10 in a few weeks. Even if naturally talented in composition there's a lot of technique and understanding to pick up, which doesn't come quickly.

When you are new, it's very easy to think you've come up with a great sounding, well produced track, but compared to a full pro track, there will almost certainly be a lot missing, especially variations in sound, rhythm and 'fairy dust'.

You may get from 6 to an 8 fairly quickly with guidance and feedback, but the learning and progress becomes slower from then on.

So I'd suggest carrying on with what you've currently got until you maybe think you're at say an 8, and then review where you are and if you want to carry on. If you do, then think about room acoustic treatment and some good monitors. Because good monitors are only good in an acoustically treated room.

I agree completely!

Hi all,

I agree too! Apart from the topic of the monitors, for which I have zero experience so I cannot really comment.

By the way, I have just re-heard for the first time my "valued 6" track with the Motu and the DT990 and...Wow, it is another track! I hear a lot of things I did not hear with the crappy headphones. Mostly defects rather than nice things...Now I give it a "5" at best!

Anyway, thanks again to all for the replies..

Cheers,
FullPoker

[FullPoker]

What I managed to achieve with Better Off Alone was a 6 (out of my personal scale between 0 and 10), but I want to get to 10 otherwise I will not enjoy it enough to sustain the effort required to get there

By the way, I bought the Motu2, the DT990 and the low entry gaming laptop only a few days ago. I did the cover with crappy headphones and the crappy default sound card of a my PC (Ryzen 5 - 6 cores 1600; 8 GB RAM).I think that the PC was still fine as the FL Studio CPU never went above 20%... I bought the laptop to get portable...with a significant upgrade of CPU and RAM not be forced to change it soon...

Cheers,
FullPoker

I think your original post wasn’t necessary, you seem to be doing fine.
Also, I find it a bit strange, that you’re rating the things you do on a "scale" of 1-10 this is all a bit clinical, and also, unnecessary.
Just concentrate on your music, and don’t over-think the gear.

I hope you are right that I am doing fine. I find music production a huge challenge...the risk of giving up at the beginning is so real...I need motivation to keep going...to break the barrier...

By the way, now that I listened to it with the DT990 and MUTU2 (instead of crappy headphones and crappy PC audio card) I would give it a 5 at best...

Cheers,
FullPOker

[RichardT]

Come on EW, if you want to hear something then ask politely please.

Couldn’t agree more Eddy - it was a very aggressive and unnecessary post.

[RichardT]

You get better gear and your music doesn’t sound so good.

= success!

[FullPoker]

You get better gear and your music doesn’t sound so good.

= success!

Thanks to all, now I know that the gears I have are more than enough (i.e., it will take a lot a time/learning before they will play any significant limit to me). Good! This is very important to me. Now I can concentrate on the next steps.

As for the next steps, I think the following in a chronological order. Please comment/amend as needed:

1) Get fully familiar with the DAW layout (I have FL Studio Signature bundle). I am learning how the Channel Rack, Piano Roll, the Mixer, etc. do work. I think I am 50% through here. But learning shortcuts is key to save time and avoid frustration and slow progress...I miss still a lot there...

2) Learn how to create my own sounds! Besides the signature bundle, I have Augmented Orchestra and Quadra by UVI. So, I get a lot of nice preset sounds and effects in the package. But...I think that nothing is better than your on sounds, right? I have ZERO knowledge how to create sounds. I read that there are many different types of synthesizers (negative, FM, etc...) no clue yet what all that means. My priority is to create nice Chords, Pads, cinematics quality. Any specific tool where to initially focus to start learning and have some practice?
3) Once point 2 is achieved (I think it will require a lot of effort) what next? I I would learn the most important types of effects beyond reverb/delays. Probably EQ, Limiter, Compression are key right? I have have ZERO knowledge here too...

Thanks for any feedback you may give me on that...

Cheers,
FullPOker

[RichardT]

Personally I would skip the learning to create new sounds at the moment - starting out, you can create great results just by using presets. I'm not saying it's something you shouldn't do, you absolutely should, but I'd put it down the priority list for now. Others may not agree!

I think you have two main strands to develop - musical and technical.

On the technical side, yes, you need to learn your DAW and then the essentials of producing and mixing. I'd recommend Mike Senior's book (I mentioned it earlier) to learn pretty much all you need to know about mixing and the use the of EQs and compressors etc.

On the musical side it's up to you how far you go and in which direction, but for sure the more you learn the more variety you can inject into your music.

One very important area that crosses the musical and technical boundary is arrangement - what instruments play what notes at what time. I think this is an area where the very best producers often have an edge.

[Kwackman]

On the technical side, yes, you need to learn your DAW and then the essentials of producing and mixing. I'd recommend Mike Senior's book (I mentioned it earlier) to learn pretty much all you need to know about mixing and the use the of EQs and compressors etc.

Agreed, and there's also great articles from SOS magazine that are freely available, for example
https://www.soundonsound.com/forum/post ... e&p=860429
https://www.soundonsound.com/forum/post ... e&p=860429

and the glossary is very handy for "what does that mean" moments.
https://www.soundonsound.com/glossary

[Drew Stephenson]

Think you might have your links a bit confused there Kwackman!

[Drew Stephenson]

2) Learn how to create my own sounds! Besides the signature bundle, I have Augmented Orchestra and Quadra by UVI. So, I get a lot of nice preset sounds and effects in the package. But...I think that nothing is better than your on sounds, right? I have ZERO knowledge how to create sounds. I read that there are many different types of synthesizers (negative, FM, etc...) no clue yet what all that means.

Richard's point about using what's already available is a good one - especially when you start playing around with the options in the preset and then adding your own effects and automation.
But when you do decide to dig into that particular rabbit hole this extensive series on synthesis would be a great place to start: https://www.soundonsound.com/series/syn ... ound-sound