Most underrated synths...

[ManFromGlass]

There is still one patch the D-70 did that I’ve never heard elsewhere. I miss it!

[The Elf]

OK Bill!

I'm fitting this in with the mix work I'm doing today, but here's a quick 'n' dirty example for you.

Here are the chords I have running in one part of this song:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/tud08wr8gg44f8s/Wounded%20Healer%20Chords.wav?dl=0

And here are the same chords with a smudge of K1r strings:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/11qf6az7lpqvnz4/Wounded%20Healer%20Chords%20%2B%20K1r.wav?dl=0

If I was doing this properly I would blend the in/outs of the K1r to help mask the in/out points, but hopefully you can hear how it adds a roughness to the smooth 'posh' synth part and the two work as a better whole than either of the parts. It's as if the K1r is adding a bit of 'bow' to the strings.

This trick works almost every time - add a gorgeous synth part, then add a nasty K1r part - and the two love each other!

[muzines]

I really liked the first clip, sounds great, but the second was ruined by a cheap string patch underneath...

(It's not even the best string patch on the K1... )

[The Elf]

I really liked the first clip, sounds great, but the second was ruined by a cheap string patch underneath...

[Eddy Deegan]

One of my favourite underrated synths was my old Roland D70. Slim, light, excellent keybed, large display, cool sounds, I loved mine to bits

I was at university when this came out and at the time I desired it beyond imagining. I'd been bowled over by a D20 I briefly laid hands on in a shop in Tottenham Court Road, as at the time I only owned a Yamaha DX9 and knew little or nothing of how any other kind of synth worked.

'Breathy choir' sounds were a huge attraction for me, being completely out of the range of a 4-op FM board. I did eventually get a second hand D10, but soon outgrew it (and it was incredibly unstable when driven over MIDI in multi-timbral mode from an external sequencer).

Never got to own a D70, but I get a warm and fuzzy feeling every time I see one mentioned

[BillB]

OK Bill!
If I was doing this properly I would blend the in/outs of the K1r to help mask the in/out points, but hopefully you can hear how it adds a roughness to the smooth 'posh' synth part and the two work as a better whole than either of the parts. It's as if the K1r is adding a bit of 'bow' to the strings. This trick works almost every time - add a gorgeous synth part, then add a nasty K1r part - and the two love each other!

Thanks Elf, I really appreciate you making the time to do this. Agree, they could be blended better (longer attack / release on the K1r sound?) but I get what you mean about the sound of bowing - that was my instinctive response when I heard it. It is an element that can be missing from string sounds.

It puts me in mind of the forum discussion a few months back, about Dave Spier's love letter to the CS80. That made me think I should experiment more with complimentary layers from different synths, rather than just accepting the patch as stored on a given synth. In presenting two synths in one box, the CS80 makes it almost impossible to avoid such experiments - in a good way.

Don't think I'll be buying a K1 on the strength of this (I have other fairly lo-res digital gear), but the principle of a bit of rough, to add texture to the smooth, is great one. Thank you

[The Elf]

It's not just the strings that this works with. Adding a bit of K1 choir to a string pad works superbly too. It's really about the strings, choir and flute, for me. The rest of the K1's sound set is, unfortunately, as woeful as noted by others in this thread!

Truth is I could probably achieve all of this with a bit of basic sampling, but it's nice to have the real thing here.

Yep, I didn't make any effort here to smooth out the attack/release of the K1r - obviously I would do that if it were to be used for real.

[muzines]

The rest of the K1's sound set is, unfortunately, as woeful as noted by others in this thread!

Truth is I could probably achieve all of this with a bit of basic sampling, but it's nice to have the real thing here.

Yep. The K1 is fairly easy to multisample, as there's so few good sounds...

Plus there's also that free K1 plugin (PC only at this time, and it's a bit ugly but PC users are used to that so...) which will substitute nicely...

[Vox Gnus]

Do you mean Nils' K1v plugin? It's now available for Mac, Windows, and Linux, and Kawai recently gave him their blessing to continue (and logos/sounds to use). And it's free (but please, donate if you like it!).

https://www.nilsschneider.de/wp/nils-k1v/

[muzines]

Do you mean Nils' K1v plugin? It's now available for Mac, Windows, and Linux,

Yep. That's cool, I knew he was working on the Mac version but didn't know it was out...

Kawai recently gave him their blessing to continue (and logos/sounds to use). And it's free (but please, donate if you like it!).

Ah, that's very cool of them.

I followed his development blog, it was quite interesting - it looks like he's done a really good job of this one...

Hmm, weird looping issues on the piano sources (eg "Croketts" preset)... I'm fairly sure the K1 didn't behave like that...
Terminator doesn't sound right either, similar source looping issue. Maybe it's not quite ready for primetime yet... flipping through the sounds there are other sample issues that don't sound right either.

Anyway - hopefully he's on the case...

I wonder if I can get my old K1 librarian/editor running in an emulated Atari ST in Hatari on my Mac, talking over a virtual MIDI connection to the K1 plugin running virtually in my Mac... what a crazy modern world we're in!

[BJG145]

One of my favourite underrated synths was my old Roland D70. Slim, light, excellent keybed, large display, cool sounds, I loved mine to bits

Yes these were nice. I used to buy broken synths and try to fix them, and this was one I gave up on...but the half that worked was great. (I think faulty keyboards were the most common problem with these.)

[muzines]

Nils's K1 plugin is working pretty nicely now - I dug out my old K1 libraries from the SoundDiver Atari days and have imported some of my favourite patches into the plugin - it's nice to have them back.

There are a few that are actually usable...!

I joke of course, it's nice to revisit this thing and great to have one more piece of gear from my past available in my DAW...

[IAA]

Great news! I loved three sounds on the K1. The choir, a string pad and “orchestra” IIRC the latter I used in the mellotron brass type way to completely blow the guitarist off the stage it was a good loud sound and with some s330 strings under it you could half believe you were at the cutting edge of synth technology!
I’m going to download this, thanks for the heads up, I’ll gladly donate too.

[forumuser789602]

Hi there, here is the list of underrated keyboards that I have acquired on my budget of very, very little.
Because my budget has been so small I have been forced to buy the unusual keyboards that were unpopular.
This meant I have come across a really wide range of really interesting keyboards simply because they were all I could afford because no one else wanted them.

Its a fairly long list but worth a look at as most of these are still often found as cheap or even give away.
So here is my list....

-Casio cz5000, possibly one of the greatest synths ever, and one which somehow gets overlooked because most synth players are a musically uncreative and snobbish bunch who are afraid and embarrassed of anything with the casio label on it (yes it's true).
Their loss hahaha.
Even the best YouTube videos can't possibly do this synth justice.
Nothing else can make these kinds of sounds and how it can create the most convincing analogue sounds through to sounds that could only be described as sounding like elaborate samples, is beyond me.
Architecture wise, there is nothing else like it.
No one has yet found the depths of this machine.
Curious?
Just buy one for the $350 they still sell for and use soundiver with it and you will be blown away.
Forget the more expensive little cz101 with its dainty little keys, get the full "man size" machine with all the extra benefits for a lot less.

-Casio wk3700 and wk8000, these are part of the high end, silver, wk range in different housings and with a few differences. Excellent sounds and dsp fx allowing a wide range of very cool synth sounds.
Really cool and strange cut off and res filter.
Extremely under rated.

-Casio Mz2000, capable of excellent synth sounds from 70s through to now.
Can layer 8 sounds per voice and then 2 of these 8 voice layers can be combined!
It sounds fat, heavy and ballsy once the master limiter is set to "kill"

-Yamaha D85 electone. If you want dreamy analogue style sounds, cool mono synth and drum machine all for next to nothing, here is your synth.... Or organ I should say.

-Yamaha e70, this is a wonderful synth that also lives in a brown organ body.
Just beautiful and dreamy. Starting to get expensive but still cheap compared to a normal synth.

-Kawai dx1900 and dx900, another synth trapped on an organ body that is simply amazing. All analogue and just beautiful synth sounds.

-Elka artist 606 and 707, so the elka x705 seems to rare and expensive, buy it in brown organ form for free from market place. The best organ sounds, the most fearsome mono synth and it has a solina style strings machine. The brass sound is great too.

-Yamaha v50, somehow this remains largely unknown. What a tremendous synth!
The effects are pure 80s excellence!
If you ever felt you wanted to re create the soundtrack to the movie Labirynth, here is the only synth you will need, yes it makes that kind of sound. I think it has way more vibe and flexibility than the dx7.
Looks really cool too

-Ensoniq mirage, one of the most historicly important pieces of musical equipment ever and it still only goes for $300.
What a machine! What a sound! What an awesomely immersive experience it is to use one, I love the interface of this machine. Possibly the most satisfying machine to use that I own.

-Casio ct6500, this is a huge present version of the cz5000 but has the coolest presets that sum up every awesome 80s sound, drum machine and accompanying sections. Has midi too which is really good.

-jx3p, it is starting to get some credibility now days which is great but this synth has had a bad rap for such a long time as being thin sounding, hard to program with out the programmer and always compared unfairly against the juno 6 even though it is technically and sonically superior in every way.
The jx3p is fantastic and well worth the money with or with out the programmer.
I also think it is the best looking 80s polysynth other then the obx.

-korg dw6000, again, always held as inferior to the 8000 which isn't vwieed particularly highly for a reason that no one can really quantify.
The dw6000 is excellent.
Hands down excellent.
It shines at creating very conventional synth sounds and not so much the strange or character sounds.
Just beautiful and still only like $400.

Well, that's my list of personally owned under rated synths

[forumuser789602]

While not entirely under rated or forgotten, the Yamaha vss-330 is a sampler/synth in a league of its own.
I have had a few different samplers and out of all of them, it was this and the mirage that left the biggest impression.
It even has resampling.
They seem to go for about $300 which is a lot for what it is but nothing is as immediate or can give such unexpected results.

[The Elf]

Strange you mention the JX-3P. I don't see that as being underrated at all - in fact it always gets the limelight (and is even included as a 'plug-out' for the System-8), whereas the superior JX-8P hardly gets mentioned.

Glad you like your Casios. I never 'got' the passion for the CZ-101 and I still don't.

[forumuser789602]

Howdy
When k first got my jx3p the internet was always talking it down, times have changed and it is getting some recognition now and that Roland has made the boutique version says a lot too.
I am in agreement with you though that now its quite popular and that the jx8p never gets a mention.
The internet sure is a strange place hahah.

[Dave B]

It must be a UK/US thing for the JX3P. Over here it is venerated and have iconic status and, for the love of me, I can never understand why.

The V50 is definitely a lesser known, but excellent, synth. I know a couple of 'name' players who had it for a long time in their rigs.

The E70 I was told about by another gear head - apparently, people have twigged that it's basically a re-badged CS80 under the hood and so those in the know bought them to keep their treasured CS80s running...

[forumuser789602]

Yes, perhaps it is a regional thing with the jx3p, that's a good point.
The electone models have a few really stunning gems hidden in among them.
I have 2xyamaha d85's, a kawai dx1900 and dx900, a Yamaha E70 and an elka artist 707......and not much space hahahaha.
These organs are usually free and sound superb.
Really top shelf musical sounds and the way sounds can be layered can't be matched by any normal synth.
The yamaha d65, e45 and e75 are also good to look out for.
The spring reverb is connected nternwlly by two rca plugs so the can be extended and connected to other external fx units.
The only downside is size and space.

[BillB]

forumuser789602 - welcome to the SOS Forum!

That's an interesting and informative post. It isn't easy to get information about those keyboards that are preset or 'non-pro' versions of decent synths, unless someone in the know tells you.
So thank you - very much in the spirit of the topic

Dave, there is information somewhere on the web from a guy who 'converted' an E70 (analogue organ) to as close as he could get to a CS80, by adding banks of pots instead of fixed resistors. It was a labour of love and failed to be a CS80 in some important ways, but it would seem that he got an interesting (large!) instrument for his troubles.

[forumuser789602]

Hey thanks Bill
I never had the option of buying anything sought after but i was always open to buying something interesting even when I had no idea what it was.
The organs listed certainly fit that as I don't even really play the organ but I remember thinking that the sounds they made were very un organ like and at the same time sounded a whole lot like all of the sounds from early 80s records.
I went through a time where I just bought everything I could afford or pick up for free haha.
Ended up filling up a three room house with seemingly unwabted B grade equipment.
I ended up with a "70s room" where there were old reel to reels, organs that sounded like synths and e waste drum machines.......awesome and unique and cost maybe $600-$800 all up at the time.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mCGGNVz4o44
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VgApZuDbG1U
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=S0xqQypExlQ
Though cheap to obtain, it was a very flexible and awesome set up.

Another room that had the mirage, sy22, sy35, v50, cz5000, my many cool casios and other odd bits and pieces and fx processors.
The only respected gear in the room was a dx7 and an rs2000.

Having so few resources helped me learn to really dig deep in to what ever gear I had to find what it was good at and this meant that I discovered many really cool things where most other people never even bothered looking.

[BillB]

And you can play!

Really enjoyed those videos, especially the D85 three manual, and JMJ and his (not very) Spooky cat. Lovely stuff, well done. Great to hear someone with talent exploring what is possible on these machines.

[The Elf]

Great playing!

Wish the sound was a bit better (direct, rather than camera mic) - I'd love to hear more.

[Folderol]

Very impressive. Quite fascinating setup - talk about Aladdin's cave
It's great to see and hear this older kit still alive.

[Arpangel]

Hey thanks Bill
I never had the option of buying anything sought after but i was always open to buying something interesting even when I had no idea what it was.
The organs listed certainly fit that as I don't even really play the organ but I remember thinking that the sounds they made were very un organ like and at the same time sounded a whole lot like all of the sounds from early 80s records.
I went through a time where I just bought everything I could afford or pick up for free haha.
Ended up filling up a three room house with seemingly unwabted B grade equipment.
I ended up with a "70s room" where there were old reel to reels, organs that sounded like synths and e waste drum machines.......awesome and unique and cost maybe $600-$800 all up at the time.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mCGGNVz4o44
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VgApZuDbG1U
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=S0xqQypExlQ
Though cheap to obtain, it was a very flexible and awesome set up.

Another room that had the mirage, sy22, sy35, v50, cz5000, my many cool casios and other odd bits and pieces and fx processors.
The only respected gear in the room was a dx7 and an rs2000.

Having so few resources helped me learn to really dig deep in to what ever gear I had to find what it was good at and this meant that I discovered many really cool things where most other people never even bothered looking.

This is just the best ever!
Great gear, and great playing, I’d love to have a play on those things, amazing collection.