Kurzweil - the future?

[Dave B]

Also, it might be worth a trawl through google for old stuff - I dimly recall a tutorial on turning a K2000 into a monophonic 96 (*) partial additive synth by doing clever things with the function generators.

Funny enough, I just googled that to confirm and the older versions of VAST didn't allow layer chaining as it could mean FM - and Kurzweil were being polite to Yamaha ... lol

[johnny h]

Sadly for us, Ray decided to use his great talents to make gazillions in the stock market and developing technology to live forever. What is it with these crazy geniuses?

FFS - you even managed to work in anti-capitalism here as well. But hey, congrats for not using the word 'Tories'.

I wasn't being anti-capitalist so you can stop with your unprovoked nonsense.

[The Elf]

VAST doesn't create anything fundamentally 'new' or 'unique', any more than any other synth engine. What it does is make creating sounds relatively simple (IMHO) and precise (all parameters in dB and Hz), and is backed up with samples and audio quality that are exemplary. A string pad is a string pad - what makes it special is down to the ear of the beholder.

Not everyone can hear the difference, and that doesn't matter - if you don't 'get' VAST then that's fair enough - there are plenty of other synths.

[One Horse Town]

Sadly for us, Ray decided to use his great talents to make gazillions in the stock market and developing technology to live forever. What is it with these crazy geniuses?

FFS - you even managed to work in anti-capitalism here as well. But hey, congrats for not using the word 'Tories'.

I wasn't being anti-capitalist so you can stop with your unprovoked nonsense.

Nonsense? Oh the irony. By the way I will 'stop' when I choose to, not you. However, unlike you, I won't need to resort to emotive language and yawn-inducing predictably to make my point. Something that many on these forums (including SOS staff) have repeatedly pointed out to you.

I apologise to everyone else and was only responding to someone who insists on incorporating implied political negativity (see above) into even an innocuous subject such as Kurzweil's products. I won't be responding to Johnny's inevitable and calm riposte.

[Dave B]

Anywayyyyyy ..... Getting back to the point ....

The Elf is quite right - there's all sorts of engines out there and something for everyone. Personally, I'm not wild about FM but concede that in the right hands it can produce exquisite results. I always hoped that AFM/RCM would be pushed as the potential (particularly on the SY99 with it's ability to use user samples in the operators) was massive. I comparing it to VAST, though, is really apples and oranges - both are fruit and both make great juice, but they are different things.

As for Kurzweil's future (the original point of this post), it seems in safe hands. The Forte is Kurzweil's move to a more modern platform / architecture (different processor, flash ram, etc) and that seems to have gone swimmingly. They are open about the idea of building another 'K' type workstation, but are practical about how to do it - they are precedents of companies sinking a) their cash into a new product that isn't mature and b) into oblivion because of this. I _really_ hope that they do make a next gen workstation because I'll be in the queue when they do.

One other point : the benefit of evolution over revolution? I can load K-series programs (from as far back as the original K2000) into the PC3-series quite happily - which is compatibility for over 20 years worth of patches. It's only the Forte which is limited - and even then, as long as I keep a (still current) PC3 handy, I can convert and load. Not bad ... not bad at all.

[johnny h]

Sadly for us, Ray decided to use his great talents to make gazillions in the stock market and developing technology to live forever. What is it with these crazy geniuses?

FFS - you even managed to work in anti-capitalism here as well. But hey, congrats for not using the word 'Tories'.

I wasn't being anti-capitalist so you can stop with your unprovoked nonsense.

Nonsense? Oh the irony. By the way I will 'stop' when I choose to, not you.

I apologise to everyone else and was only responding to someone who insists on incorporating implied political negativity (see above) into even an innocuous subject such as Kurzweil's products. I won't be responding to Johnny's inevitable and calm riposte.

My post was factually correct and not in any way political. Ray left to pursue other projects and progress on VAST pretty much ground to a halt. You can't really argue with that, it's just true! Absolutely no need to have a tantrum about it!

[Martin Walker]

Guys, guys - can we PLEASE leave the soap boxes in the Musician's Lounge, and not pollute other forums with anything that can be construed as political?

Also, johnny h, this was already a fascinating and in-depth discussion before your very first contribution, which once again provoked several negative reactions, mostly by forum users who simply wanted the subject to return to the original topic. Please, please in future think more carefully when you write your posts before lighting the blue touchpaper and retiring to see what outcome you have managed to create by fanning the flames

Thank you!

Martin

[johnny h]

Also, johnny h, this was already a fascinating and in-depth discussion before your very first contribution, which once again provoked several negative reactions.

Martin, I think that's a little bit unfair, Dave mentioned that Ray had recently returned to the company, but not in a negative way. The only negativity was from one horse's outburst and the reaction to that.

Please, please in future think more carefully when you write your posts before lighting the blue touchpaper and retiring to see what outcome you have managed to create by fanning the flames

Sure, but I really don't understand what I've done wrong here. I'm a Kurzweil fan and user and have a lot of respect for Ray Kurzweil and his contributions to music technology. I made a small, jovial and entirely non political post to explain the gap in development (which had already been touched upon) and received a completely uncalled for, abusive reply from one horse.

[Escapegoat]

Thanks for the links to VAST videos, chaps. Will check them out this weekend (after working out why Firefox has decided not to let me watch YT videos).

The Forte's big (ish) screen made me giddy for a moment, but a closer look seems to show that there's no actual GUI for VAST editing?

[ManFromGlass]

I had the pleasure of doing the music for a doc on longevity. There was a segment on Ray Kurzweil and his attempts to stave off a visit from the grim reaper by ingesting a rather large amount of vitamin supplements every day. Fascinating guy. I think he was the one who mentioned how he thought death was such a waste after spending ones life accumulating knowledge.

[Hugh Robjohns]

... I really don't understand what I've done wrong here.

I think it's a case of, 'as ye sow, so shall ye reap'....

The fact is that so many of your posts are, shall we say, 'politically enhanced', that most other forum readers now expect to see and react against your continuous anti-tory, anti-capitalist vitriol.

In this case it was manifest -- whether consciously intended that way or not -- in your comments "Sadly for us, Ray decided to use his great talents to make gazillions in the stock market...." and "What is it with these crazy geniuses?"

It's a shame, of course, because this has detracted from what would, from anyone else, have been a useful contribution, and distracted the thread in general.

So while, in the interests of fair moderation, I can understand your apparent confusion, I'm afraid I have little sympathy. You've made a rod for your own back, and when even Martin -- probably the most placid and easy-going in the moderation team -- feels the need to jump in and caution you, it gives a good indication of the diminishing patience...

H

[Hugh Robjohns]

I think he was the one who mentioned how he thought death was such a waste after spending ones life accumulating knowledge.

I couldn't agree more -- and that's why I am so keen on sharing knowledge with anyone with a genuine interest in learning, and simultaneously calling out errors and misconceptions.

H

[mick.n]

This is an interesting post for me, as I am only around a year or so of buying my final "retirement keyboard'. My choices have been whittled down to either a Kronos 2 ,88 note or one of the Kurzweil range. (88 note).

Whichever one I choose, it will need to be interesting / complex enough to keep me absorbed untill I am chauffered away to that great gig in the sky.

Good post.

[Tomás Mulcahy]

Kevin Nolan, fantastic post, summing it up very well. I'd pay money for your curated sound libraries (not kidding), that was a lot of work and I'm sure they sound fabulous.

Some folk are saying that these nineties mega-synths are not appreciated, but it seems to me, going by eBay sales (as in prices they actually sell for) their value is increasing. From what I see, K2500, TG77 and later Yamaha modules are increasing in value. You're still looking at around €500- €600 or more for these. Maybe less so for the K2000, it's a fairly popular rack unit but you're still looking at a significant spend if you want to fully expand one. And (with the exception of the K2000) these mega-synths don't come up for sale too often. You won't see a lot of talk on the forums about these boxes, I guess the owners are just getting on with the gigging and production

[Guest]

... I really don't understand what I've done wrong here.

I think it's a case of, 'as ye sow, so shall ye reap'....

The fact is that so many of your posts are, shall we say, 'politically enhanced', that most other forum readers now expect to see and react against your continuous anti-tory, anti-capitalist vitriol.

In this case it was manifest -- whether consciously intended that way or not -- in your comments "Sadly for us, Ray decided to use his great talents to make gazillions in the stock market...." and "What is it with these crazy geniuses?"

It's a shame, of course, because this has detracted from what would, from anyone else, have been a useful contribution, and distracted the thread in general.

So while, in the interests of fair moderation, I can understand your apparent confusion, I'm afraid I have little sympathy. You've made a rod for your own back, and when even Martin -- probably the most placid and easy-going in the moderation team -- feels the need to jump in and caution you, it gives a good indication of the diminishing patience...

H

Actually what has detracted from the thread is peoples reaction to his post, not what he posted.

[Dave B]

My choices have been whittled down to either a Kronos 2 ,88 note or one of the Kurzweil range. (88 note).

Both are excellent choices and contain more than enough power to keep someone well and truly occupied for a goodly long time. I'd suggest a play with each - there are the odd shops that do both. Like guitars, some people just 'get' certain keyboards more than others.

But if that's your list, you can be fairly confident that you aren't picking a pup in either case

[The Elf]

And (with the exception of the K2000) these mega-synths don't come up for sale too often.)

I still wince every time I recall how much I got for my fully spammed up K2000. Someone got an absolute steal from me that day.

[johnny h]

The fact is that so many of your posts are, shall we say, 'politically enhanced', that most other forum readers now expect to see and react against your continuous anti-tory, anti-capitalist vitriol.

Only one poster reacted with abuse. The majority of posters are quite able to leave political differences in the lounge.

In this case it was manifest -- whether consciously intended that way or not -- in your comments "Sadly for us, Ray decided to use his great talents to make gazillions in the stock market...." and "What is it with these crazy geniuses?"

Absolutely nothing political or confrontational in my post whatsoever. Simply a statement of fact that he left Kurzweil to work in stocks and life extension and a reasonable opinion that it was a loss to the synth world.

[mick.n]

But if that's your list, you can be fairly confident that you aren't picking a pup in either case

Thanks Dave.

[Tomás Mulcahy]

And (with the exception of the K2000) these mega-synths don't come up for sale too often.)

I still wince every time I recall how much I got for my fully spammed up K2000. Someone got an absolute steal from me that day.

I know the feeling!

[CS70]

In this case it was manifest -- whether consciously intended that way or not -- in your comments "Sadly for us, Ray decided to use his great talents to make gazillions in the stock market...." and "What is it with these crazy geniuses?"

For what's worth, that sentence didn't really seem much political at all to me. It actually made me curious to look up mr. Kurzweill. I remembered the brand name from the 80s when even in guitar magazines there were commercials hailing their keyboard as a revolution in piano sound, but as I've never been interested in piano sounds, I didn't know there was a Mr. Kurzweill. The comment seemed to express admiration of the guy, and a bit of sadness for his choices (as seen by the poster).

It's a shame, of course, because this has detracted from what would, from anyone else, have been a useful contribution, and distracted the thread in general.

I see where you're coming from, but don't you think it's a bit of a problematic attitude? Maybe I'm missing something, but I think what matters is what is posted, not who posts it.

[Hugh Robjohns]

It's nothing more than a tedious storm in a teacup from our two favourite storm-makers. It's distracting from an otherwise interesting and informative thread, which is a shame, but nothing that warrants a great debate. One chap takes offence, arguably on a misreading of a post; the other insists on defending his position ad nauseum apparently unable to see the underlying cause. No one wins, but the thread loses.

Fortunately, it's a lovely sunny day and I'm off out to help celebrate my mother-in-law's birthday in the real world where real people matter rather more to me.

H

[CS70]

Fortunately, it's a lovely sunny day and I'm off out to help celebrate my mother-in-law's birthday in the real world where real people matter rather more to me.

Have a great one!

[One Horse Town]

It's nothing more than a tedious storm in a teacup from our two favourite storm-makers. It's distracting from an otherwise interesting and informative thread, which is a shame, but nothing that warrants a great debate. One chap takes offence, arguably on a misreading of a post; the other insists on defending his position ad nauseum apparently unable to see the underlying cause. No one wins, but the thread loses.

Fortunately, it's a lovely sunny day and I'm off out to help celebrate my mother-in-law's birthday in the real world where real people matter rather more to me.

H

Well Hugh, I certainly agree writing comments at all hours pales into insignificance in relation to life out there but I don't agree with your attempt to conflate my post history with another 'storm-maker' as you put it. Before generalising to that extent you need to study both our respective comment histories. I don't use abusive, inflammatory or politically repetitive language at every opportunity. Incidentally, that last sentence contains adjectives you have previously used to admonish the other poster in a futile attempt, it turns out, to put an end to it.
Perhaps I overreacted and for that I apologise - again. But unlike some here, I chose to respond to a situation that in my opinion, hasn't been adequately challenged by you or your staff. In fact your latest interjection reminds me of a supply teacher I once came across that, because he couldn't deal with a particularly disruptive pupil, he decided to take the easy way out and put the whole class into detention.
However, I wish you and the rest of your readership all the best.

[johnny h]

I see where you're coming from, but don't you think it's a bit of a problematic attitude? Maybe I'm missing something, but I think what matters is what is posted, not who posts it.

Yeah its something about different political opinions about Brexit and the election, nothing to get that upset about! In days gone by posters were quite happy to go at it hammer and tongs in the lounge yet be perfectly civil and respectful in the rest of the forum. I think part of the problem is that Facebook and Google's algorithms only show you stories you are likely to agree with and that narrows your view of the world. It makes it harder for people to deal with alternative views without resorting to ad hominem attacks.

Getting back to Ray Kurzweil, he's quite a controversial figure. Some people think his futurism writing is pure science fiction, but he fairly accurately predicted the rise of the internet, the fall of the Soviet Union and that computers would beat humans at chess by the year 2000. Personally I think people are too quick to canonise or demonise those unafraid to stand out. The world is a much greater place with people like him in the world.

It makes you wonder how VAST would have looked today if he'd stayed with the company.