Are the older hardware synths becoming the new investment?

[Arpangel]

It's a woeful design. The sideways pitch wheel and lack of mod wheel are instant 'pass' features for many, and the editing facilities are ghastly. But if you can see past these things, and perhaps adopt an external keyboard and editor (my appoach), then it's a wondrous little machine.

Don't let on, though - I'm hoping to grab a couple more for the band!

The size is great, didn’t think about the sliders, don’t mind them, I’m just worried about the data entry knob, if it’s going to wear out, I'm OK with the editing, but it just involves so much use of that one knob.
I like playing it as it is, the keyboard feels nice, I don’t like playing anything remotely, there’s an instant feeling of disconnection, that’s why I don’t like VSTi's that much.

[N i g e l]

pots & switches are available for the micron, so the interface should be repairable if it deteriorates. Not sure about the insides though as each voice has custom chips.

You have praised the micron before and I was a bit shocked given your love of physical controls and the micon's lack there of !

The quirky design is by Axel Hartmann, the knob&LCD interface is minimalist but efficent, especially with the keyboard shortcuts. PC editor recommended !
Strangely there are 3 variants to cover most tastes -
Alesis micron : small quirky design
Alesis Ion : the big one with knobs
Akai Miniak : compact with more conformist layout

I like not just the micron's handy size & keyboard action, extensive sound engine but also the use of polyphony/multitimbrality - sequences or rhythm track can be playing and still allow keyboard playing over the top - great for seting up a quick jam or practice loop.

[BillB]

It's a woeful design. The sideways pitch wheel and lack of mod wheel are instant 'pass' features for many, and the editing facilities are ghastly. But if you can see past these things, and perhaps adopt an external keyboard and editor (my appoach), then it's a wondrous little machine.

Presumably the MidiDesigner template? Does that read parameters from the synth or do you start from INIT each time?

[Tomás Mulcahy]

Alesis Micron, and the Ion (same engine better UI) are climbing in price recently. People have noticed that they sound really good. I didn't personally enjoy the Ion UI as much as I did the Novation KS Rack UI. I thought both sounded really good.

But now a used Novation KS Rack sells for more than an Ultranova... that probably won't last long...

FWIW I am keeping both!

[BJG145]

Vintage synths have been collectors' investments for years. You don't have to spend much time on Vemia to be plunged into that world. The Syrinx went for £13K yesterday.

https://spheremusic.com/Bargaindtl.asp?Item=23725

(I'm still licking my wounds because a couple of very rare MIDI controllers turned up at this latest auction, the Tonal Plexus and the Axis 64, but they slipped away this time.)

[N i g e l]

Vintage synths have been collectors' investments for years. You don't have to spend much time on Vemia to be plunged into that world. The Syrinx went for £13K yesterday.

:gob smacked:
Syrinx - the one with the repair_your_own_car_bodywork type pitchbender !
It has never looked classy but probably as artistic in use as a modern Nord wooden pitch stick [which are nice].

[BJG145]

...from SOS 1999...

First shown in 1982, it had a UK price of under £400, but now sells to analogue anoraks for as much as £1500! This is ludicrous

[N i g e l]

did the manuals ever get written ?

"
Pros
A huge range of obscure and esoteric synthesis capabilities.
Designed to high engineering standards.
Unlimited telephone and email support.
Future-proof discrete circuitry.
Great value.

Cons

Poorly laid out in places.
Legending can be very confusing.
Lacks visual 'sexiness'.
Doesn't fit in 19-inch racks or cases.
Superficial manuals (but three more are in preparation).
"

[The Elf]

It's a woeful design. The sideways pitch wheel and lack of mod wheel are instant 'pass' features for many, and the editing facilities are ghastly. But if you can see past these things, and perhaps adopt an external keyboard and editor (my appoach), then it's a wondrous little machine.

Presumably the MidiDesigner template? Does that read parameters from the synth or do you start from INIT each time?

When I write my own MIDI Designer editors I try where possible to include the ability to accept incoming patch dumps and use them to populate the on-screen controls. I'm afraid the Micron Layout, which I didn't write, doesn't read do this. Maybe one day I'll deconstruct it and add this ability, but... maybe not...

So, I find a patch close to what I need and I use the Layout to tweak it from there.

[Arpangel]

Alesis Micron, and the Ion (same engine better UI) are climbing in price recently. People have noticed that they sound really good. I didn't personally enjoy the Ion UI as much as I did the Novation KS Rack UI. I thought both sounded really good.

But now a used Novation KS Rack sells for more than an Ultranova... that probably won't last long...

FWIW I am keeping both!

I have an Alesis A-Station, that, and the Micron are still my most used synths.
I’ve had to repair my Micron and I found it easy to work on, good access, but I’m worried, about future reliability, so I may get another one, it’s very rare for me to say I couldn’t live without something, but a lot of my albums have used the Micron, it’s the "piano"of my synth world, indispensable, and capable of really unique sounds.

[The Elf]

a lot of my albums have used the Micron, it’s the "piano"of my synth world, indispensable, and capable of really unique sounds.

There's a lot I like about the Micron, but 'unique' woudn't be one of my praises. At least not in the sense that any other synth can't do something 'unique' if you tweak it enough. It does a good emulation of many old synth sounds, but it's all pretty safe stuff.

[BillB]

It's a woeful design. The sideways pitch wheel and lack of mod wheel are instant 'pass' features for many, and the editing facilities are ghastly. But if you can see past these things, and perhaps adopt an external keyboard and editor (my appoach), then it's a wondrous little machine.

Presumably the MidiDesigner template? Does that read parameters from the synth or do you start from INIT each time?

When I write my own MIDI Designer editors I try where possible to include the ability to accept incoming patch dumps and use them to populate the on-screen controls. I'm afraid the Micron Layout, which I didn't write, doesn't read do this. Maybe one day I'll deconstruct it and add this ability, but... maybe not...

So, I find a patch close to what I need and I use the Layout to tweak it from there.

I have probably said this before, but for anyone else looking for a Micron editor, Patchbase on the iPad now includes Micron/Miniak.
https://coffeeshopped.com/patch-base/ed ... sis/micron

It can download and edit patches from the synth, so in that sense is has a notable advantage over the MidiDesigner editor.

On the other hand, because of the many parameters available, it has a very busy interface of 2/3 pages, whereas the Mididesigner one is spread over 6 or so. It is always a compromise with iPad (ie small screen) editors. Lots on one page or many pages...

Also of interest is the fact that Chadwick, the Patchbase developer, recommends upgrading the Micron to the latest Miniak firmware, because this enables better data exchange with the synth. The downside is that various of the Micron button swap functions, so would need to be re-labelled. That's a job (upgrade firmware and re-label) I'll be doing at some point, as the Micron panel labelling isn't the clearest it could be anyway.

[ManFromGlass]

Vintage synths have been collectors' investments for years. You don't have to spend much time on Vemia to be plunged into that world. The Syrinx went for £13K yesterday.

https://spheremusic.com/Bargaindtl.asp?Item=23725

I’m wondering if the site is hacked. I clicked on the Auctions button and there was a naked woman and an add for Dirty Tinder. It didn’t look like an art photo site!
I guess there’s more money in that than auctioning gear?

[Arpangel]

a lot of my albums have used the Micron, it’s the "piano"of my synth world, indispensable, and capable of really unique sounds.

There's a lot I like about the Micron, but 'unique' woudn't be one of my praises. At least not in the sense that any other synth can't do something 'unique' if you tweak it enough. It does a good emulation of many old synth sounds, but it's all pretty safe stuff.

We all have different uses for synths, and to me, the Micron produces sounds that I can’t get anywhere else, otherwise, I wouldn’t say what I’ve said.
Those sliders, the filters, the actual sound of the whole thing is different.
I actually think it’s not very good at producing "bread and butter sounds" it’s too digital sounding, definitely not warm, it’s not a Moog bass machine or pad thing by any means.
What I find it excels at are really nasty heavy extremely digital "textures" I haven’t been able to get near these with anything else, my modular, keyboards, anything.
I call it "Tod" after Tod Dockstader, it sounds just like him.

[The Elf]

I would be interested to hear some of these unique sounds. Can you point me to some examples?

I'm probably just a bit pedestrian in my editing!

[Arpangel]

I would be interested to hear some of these unique sounds. Can you point me to some examples?

I'm probably just a bit pedestrian in my editing!

Elf, my album Storm Clouds Over Crickelwood was done almost entirely on the Micron, lots of sounds there, the two soundscapes, are perfect examples.

[The Elf]

Perfect! Where can I get it? (I tried a few searches)

[Arpangel]

Perfect! Where can I get it? (I tried a few searches)

It’s here Elf……….

https://agflynn.bandcamp.com/album/sto ... ricklewood

I recorded it at 4am the morning, I was discharged from Dartford General, after being taken off the motorway in an ambulance, I was out of my head on morphine, and this album came out.
It was finished by lunchtime. All I could think about at the time was Tod Dockstader, he changed my life back then, and I wanted a similar vibe, on a couple of tracks, at least, all Micron, apart from an E-MU Proformance piano module on one track.

[N i g e l]

Tod Dockstader,

cheers , a name I was unfamiliar with.

Stormclouds etc ..... I have listend to before, in a work environment, and found benificial. Do you get paid for listens in bandcamp ?

[The Elf]

Perfect! Where can I get it? (I tried a few searches)

It’s here Elf……….

https://agflynn.bandcamp.com/album/sto ... ricklewood

Interesting stuff. I'd still say I'm not hearing anything 'unique' to the Micron, but you're making good use of it, and it clearly inspires you - that can't be bad.

[Arpangel]

Perfect! Where can I get it? (I tried a few searches)

It’s here Elf……….

https://agflynn.bandcamp.com/album/sto ... ricklewood

Interesting stuff. I'd still say I'm not hearing anything 'unique' to the Micron, but you're making good use of it, and it clearly inspires you - that can't be bad.

Thanks Elf, it’s the general character of it that I like, and I still wouldn’t know where to turn, to get those sounds, the two long soundscapes especially, it’s the way the modulation section works, it’s very interesting.
True, you may be able to get similar sounds elsewhere, but the Micron produces them easily, with no bother, they are just there.

[forumuser918214]

Well, there is the "greater fool" theory - think of Beanie Babies. It can work for a while.

[Barows]

Synths, guitars, 'modern classic' cars, unopened computer games, etc. Asset bubbles due to cheap money and 0% interest rates.

But I'm sure TPTB have it under control. Right...?

[Chimera]

I had always assumed that much of the value of older hardware synths was the vintage variability of sound. I’ve recently been looking at Jason Cooper’s Voice Component Modelling using gated sequencers on the Rev 2. http://www.voicecomponentmodeling.com/

Jason has YT vids under the name Creative Spiral and it is certainly a development that has potential to impact desirability of older synths. Jason has measured the Sequential vintage knob changes on the P5/10 and P/OB 6. He believes Sequential have copied his VCM in their implementation. It certainly will be interesting to see whether Sequential run with the idea on their next release.