Can any VST coder help me?

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Re: Can any VST coder help me?

Post by Bjt2 »


Hello,

I am Bjt2, the developer of that plugin.
I stumbled upon this thread in my periodical search on Google to see if my plugin catched attention.
It seems that it did.
I registered here and wrote to know if you tried it, and if you liked it.
I hope so.
Best regards,
Bjt2.
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Re: Can any VST coder help me?

Post by Martin Walker »

Hi Marco (bjt2), and welcome to the SOS Forums! 8-)

Thanks for joining us, and bravo for developing Crescendo.

Martin
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Re: Can any VST coder help me?

Post by The Elf »

Bjt2 wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2025 10:25 am

Hello,

I am Bjt2, the developer of that plugin.
I stumbled upon this thread in my periodical search on Google to see if my plugin catched attention.
It seems that it did.
I registered here and wrote to know if you tried it, and if you liked it.
I hope so.
Best regards,
Bjt2.

:thumbup: Good to see you here.

It sounds great, but I don't understand any of it!!

Do you have links to some simple explanations, or videos?
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Re: Can any VST coder help me?

Post by Bjt2 »

The Elf wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2025 11:58 am
Bjt2 wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2025 10:25 am

Hello,

I am Bjt2, the developer of that plugin.
I stumbled upon this thread in my periodical search on Google to see if my plugin catched attention.
It seems that it did.
I registered here and wrote to know if you tried it, and if you liked it.
I hope so.
Best regards,
Bjt2.

:thumbup: Good to see you here.

It sounds great, but I don't understand any of it!!

Do you have links to some simple explanations, or videos?

I made a PDF manual, maybe i should add a tutorial in it... Maybe this is the next thing i should do...
You can start opening the example files or importing a soundfont file and examining the produced files.
Also it may help using notebookLM or chatgpt, uploading the PDF manual and asking questions. It is surprisingly accurate.
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Re: Can any VST coder help me?

Post by The Elf »

I've had a quick skim of the manual and I've looked at some examples... :o:crazy:

Clearly a lot of effort has gone into this plug-in. It's all very clever stuff. As someone who is curious about it, there does need to be a way to take one from 'curious' to 'user'. So yes, at the very least some A-B-C tutorials would help your cause.

But, sadly, in my case, even reading the introduction does cause me to see an enormous gulf between where I am now and my relatively simple requirement (storing a MIDI note until the start of the next bar), much as I'd like to try.

Lastly, and perhaps most worryingly, no mention of VST3. Given Steinberg's impending dropping of VST2 I fear an investment of effort that might well hit a dead-end as of the next version of Cubase.
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Re: Can any VST coder help me?

Post by Bjt2 »

The Elf wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2025 1:23 pm I've had a quick skim of the manual and I've looked at some examples... :o:crazy:

Clearly a lot of effort has gone into this plug-in. It's all very clever stuff. As someone who is curious about it, there does need to be a way to take one from 'curious' to 'user'. So yes, at the very least some A-B-C tutorials would help your cause.

But, sadly, in my case, even reading the introduction does cause me to see an enormous gulf between where I am now and my relatively simple requirement (storing a MIDI note until the start of the next bar), much as I'd like to try.

Lastly, and perhaps most worryingly, no mention of VST3. Given Steinberg's impending dropping of VST2 I fear an investment of effort that might well hit a dead-end as of the next version of Cubase.

I used VST2 because i HATE object oriented programming. I even tried to strip away the C++ layer from the VST2 SDK, but i gave up, since the layer esase some things.
The VST3 SDK is even worse: its based on a COM like interface, which i hate even more. Moreover there is even a strong typing: you must decide in advance if you want a MIDI effect, an instrument or an audio effect. You have to construct a class factory and other dumb COM things. But my plugin is programmable and can be all of that even at the same time! Moreover i didn't get the programming paradigm. I would have to rewrite and retest most code. So i completely rejected VST3.

This is a Steinberg thing though. Because all other DAWs clearly support VST2. I have Ableton Live 9.7.5 and it does not even support VST3! This is one of the reasons why i stick on VST2. I didn't test Cubase, but some other yes and it seems not working. Probabily due to the strong typing that steinberg is enforcing also with VST3.

I am not putting my VST in a cage. As engineer i have used Matlab and Simulink and i envise that a DAW must work like that. LMMS, Reaper and VSTHost work like that. Ableton has some limitations but can be made working. But Cubase put the VST in a cage. No thanks...

The other reason is licensing. Steinberg is promoting VST3 because the VST2 has no requirements. VST3 requires that you use the logo, the copyright notice and a link to steinberg web site in all material. Free advertising. No thanks. I will study one of the new open source protocols when i have time.
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Re: Can any VST coder help me?

Post by The Elf »

Thanks for explaining.

I'm afraid that's me out, then - I don't use Ableton Live (I didn't know it couldn't handle VST3!), but I am committed to Cubase. :cry:
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Re: Can any VST coder help me?

Post by Bjt2 »

The Elf wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2025 3:18 pm Thanks for explaining.

I'm afraid that's me out, then - I don't use Ableton Live (I didn't know it couldn't handle VST3!), but I am committed to Cubase. :cry:

I am sure the newer versions supports it. Just my old version don't.
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Re: Can any VST coder help me?

Post by The Elf »

Bjt2 wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2025 3:36 pm
The Elf wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2025 3:18 pm Thanks for explaining.

I'm afraid that's me out, then - I don't use Ableton Live (I didn't know it couldn't handle VST3!), but I am committed to Cubase. :cry:

:clap::thumbup: I am sure the newer versions supports it. Just my old version don't.

Ah, I see. Anyway, I wish you luck with it. You've made a mind-blowing piece of software.
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Re: Can any VST coder help me?

Post by Bjt2 »

The Elf wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2025 5:18 pm Ah, I see. Anyway, I wish you luck with it. You've made a mind-blowing piece of software.

Thank you. I am always in search of new ideas.
I have also started a project called CrescendoDAW (you may imagine what it is...), but i don't know if i will ever finish it...
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Re: Can any VST coder help me?

Post by Wonks »

Yrs, current versions of Ableton live are fine with VST3 plugins.
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Re: Can any VST coder help me?

Post by BJG145 »

The Elf wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2025 1:23 pmGiven Steinberg's impending dropping of VST2

I haven't looked into this, but I suspect that VST2 will be supported for a good while yet, and Steinberg wouldn't be daft enough to drop it while alternatives were available (ie indefinitely).

Honestly, how many people here could list the advantages of VST3 over VST2 and say they couldn't contemplate life without them.

*edit*

I may be wrong, but here's a post about VST2 being killed off...in 2018...

https://forums.steinberg.net/t/vst2-bei ... not/108905
Last edited by BJG145 on Sat Jan 18, 2025 8:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Can any VST coder help me?

Post by The Elf »

BJG145 wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2025 8:13 pm
The Elf wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2025 1:23 pmGiven Steinberg's impending dropping of VST2

I haven't looked into this, but I suspect that VST2 will be supported for a good while yet, and Steinberg wouldn't be daft enough to drop it while alternatives were available (ie indefinitely).

I'm not so optimistic. They've already removed the VST2 SDK, and by default Cubase 14 no longer looks for VST2 plug-ins (but there's a switch to turn it back on - for the moment...).
Last edited by The Elf on Sat Jan 18, 2025 8:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Can any VST coder help me?

Post by BJG145 »

Well....

....oh.
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Re: Can any VST coder help me?

Post by Bjt2 »

The Elf wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2025 8:18 pm
BJG145 wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2025 8:13 pm
The Elf wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2025 1:23 pmGiven Steinberg's impending dropping of VST2

I haven't looked into this, but I suspect that VST2 will be supported for a good while yet, and Steinberg wouldn't be daft enough to drop it while alternatives were available (ie indefinitely).

I'm not so optimistic. They've already removed the VST2 SDK, and by default Cubase 14 no longer looks for VST2 plug-ins (but there's a switch to turn it back on - for the moment...).

There are tons of VST2 plugins. There are old plugins that work fine and are not maintained anymore. There are people that have paid their plugins a lot and don't want to waste their money. There are even layers to use 32 bit plugins on 64 bit hosts and hosts that have those layers integrated (e.g. VSTHost). Cubase will be left behind. I don't know other DAWs that do NOT support VST2. And in any case there is LMMS that is open source and does support them.
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Re: Can any VST coder help me?

Post by The Elf »

I won't be changing from Cubase.

I've removed my reliance on VST2 by about 95%. Only a couple of stalwarts remain. Of those I actually found a VST3 replacement for one of them just today. If I had to delete the remaining VST2s today I could just about manage. It's a non-problem for me.

The fact that VST2 support in Cubase is now shuffled off to a button (switched off by default) in the plug-in scanner does not bode well IMHO. I can well imagine that that button will disappear in Cubase 15, 16... If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, but I won't be caught out. It's the reason I kicked off this thread, after all! :mrgreen:

And I certainly won't be changing my DAW to keep using VST2s! :lol:
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Re: Can any VST coder help me?

Post by Bjt2 »

BJG145 wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2025 8:13 pm
The Elf wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2025 1:23 pmGiven Steinberg's impending dropping of VST2

I haven't looked into this, but I suspect that VST2 will be supported for a good while yet, and Steinberg wouldn't be daft enough to drop it while alternatives were available (ie indefinitely).

Honestly, how many people here could list the advantages of VST3 over VST2 and say they couldn't contemplate life without them.

*edit*

I may be wrong, but here's a post about VST2 being killed off...in 2018...

https://forums.steinberg.net/t/vst2-bei ... not/108905

Interesting. According to that post the MIDI CC input is almost broken on VST3 and the MIDI output is not possible. And that Steinberg severily limited its VST2 support. Ok, i will definitely not implement VST3. I will wait for a good open source interface...
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Re: Can any VST coder help me?

Post by The Elf »

My MIDI delay (accept a note, store it, send it out later) is working as a VST3 plug-in.

And all of my softsynths are VST3. All working fine.
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Re: Can any VST coder help me?

Post by Bjt2 »

The Elf wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2025 10:40 pm My MIDI delay (accept a note, store it, send it out later) is working as a VST3 plug-in.

And all of my softsynths are VST3. All working fine.

Yes, i read that for MIDI effects there is a separate class (i saw this in the SDK) but not all DAWs implement that. Obviously Steinberg does.
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